Yet another crossover question!

HandH · May 18, 2014 10:16AM

I know this topic has been discussed time and again, but I was hoping to get specific feedback on my situation. I have an 1861 $5 MS 64 and 1862 $2.50 MS 64. Both NGC. Both DNC in the past. However, they were submitted with an 1861-C $5 AU 58 and 1862-S AU 58 that did cross. My thought is that maybe they didn't cross because two of the other parts of my order did cross. I would really like to see these in PCGS holders and, due to the significant difference in price valuations from MS 64 to MS 63, do everything reasonable I can to try to keep MS 64 ( assuming , of course, the coins merit the grades ).My thought was to try again for crossover. If they DNC again, submit for cross at any grade. Then think about submitting again for resubmission to give graders a look at coin out of the holder, or crack out and submit raw. I don't think I should submit raw at this point and risk getting dinged for genuine, but wait until PCGS "confirms" that the coins will grade.

All thoughts and suggestions from such a knowledgeable and helpful group of numismatists are greatly appreciated.

ahopewell55 · May 18, 2014 10:36AM

Sounds like some great coins. I love Civil War gold. Is your 1862-S a half eagle because I don't see one in the PCGS population report. As for crossovers, I would try, try again.

HandH · May 18, 2014 10:42AM

The 1862-S AU 58 is a quarter eagle. Sorry about the typo.

Wabbit2313 · May 18, 2014 10:43AM

I do not think it had anything to do with 2 of the others crossing. I have gone 9 for 10, and 0 for 7.

There is very little chance NGC has a genuine coin in a 64 holder. Some nice images of the coin and slab would help here.

HandH · May 18, 2014 10:47AM

I will try to post images soon. I need to learn how to use photo bucket tonight.

Bochiman · May 18, 2014 10:49AM

There is such a thing as "setting up a submission" in that you put a stunning coin you want upgraded in with other really nice coins. Doesn't matter that 2 of your 4 crossed. PCGS (and NGC) doesn't operate by "let's grade xx% as crossovers...ooops, we hit that. The rest are DNC in this submission".

So, if your 2 that DNC are all there, then you could try again later, but don't submit with any coins that make those look bad

Something to think about.....are these coins unique? Can they be found in PCGS plastic and, if so, what is the cost differential between these and replacements? If the amount you could sell these for, and buy PCGS versions, is less than, or even somewhat close to, a breakeven once you factor in grading fees and shipping, then that may well be the route to go.

Also, have you tried CAC'ing them? If so, and they didn't CAC, that may tell you something about why they DNC.
If you haven't, you may want to try that, IF THEY ARE ALL THERE. If you get them CAC'ed, you may be able to recoup any cost to move to PCGS versions if you decide to try that.

HandH · May 18, 2014 12:30PM

Thank you Bochiman. I didn't think of trying to get a CAC sticker on them first.

HandH · May 18, 2014 12:53PM

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My apologies on the size of the image. A work in progress.

BAJJERFAN · May 18, 2014 1:07PM

<< <i>Thank you Bochiman. I didn't think of trying to get a CAC sticker on them first. >>

No assurance that that will help. As for "setting up" a submission, some say that doesn't work all that well either. Setting up is more likely to be successful with raw coins.

Wabbit2313 · May 18, 2014 1:10PM

My opinion, 1862 could be cracked. Leave the 1861 as is.

Boosibri · May 22, 2014 12:21AM

I don't think that there is any relation between one set of coins cross and another set not within the same order. Rather, the ability to grade an MS64 in a holder as a 64 vs. a 63 or 62 is likely more problematic than determining if a 58 is a 55 or a 62.

I think that cracking a coin in such high a grade is always a gamble but certainly increases the probability of the coin coming back at or above the current grade level. The financial impact of the grade difference of a 64 vs. a 63 is a clear consideration in why the coin may be a solid 64, but the graders were not confident enough to crack it.

I had one coin where it took me three tries to cross the coin at grade and it eventually crossed and CAC'd. It is still the highest CAC coin for the issue. It showed me a coin which DNC doesn't necessarily have a problem, the grades just didn't have the comfort in cracking it as an AU53.

Hope that helps.

messydesk · May 22, 2014 1:26AM

Those coins will have to be seen in person by someone familiar with the qualities of a borderline 63-64 for those coins to determine if and how they should be submitted to PCGS. Crossovers always err on the side of caution.

HandH · May 22, 2014 1:36AM

Thank you Boosibri and messydesk for your sage advice. It is very much appreciated.

coindeuce · May 22, 2014 1:39AM

At the very least, the 1861 Half Eagle should initially be updated at NGC to an edgeview holder. The ramifications of not being able to examine the edge of a coin on a crossover submission have been discussed here before. That being stated, it still does not guarantee that PCGS will agree with the existing grade opinion assigned by NGC.

Boosibri · May 22, 2014 1:45AM

<< <i>At the very least, the 1861 Half Eagle should initially be updated at NGC to an edgeview holder. The ramifications of not being able to examine the edge of a coin on a crossover submission have been discussed here before. That being stated, it still does not guarantee that PCGS will agree with the existing grade opinion assigned by NGC. >>

Very good advice on the edgeview. Cheap way of increasing your chances.

PQueue · May 22, 2014 5:24AM

HandH,
What is the line through the hair bun towards star 13 on the 1861 $5? It does not look like a toning streak or grease in the photos. I also note similar smaller lines at 12:00, 2:00, and 3:30 on the obverse.

HandH · May 22, 2014 5:42AM

<< <i>HandH,
What is the line through the hair bun towards star 13 on the 1861 $5? It does not look like a toning streak or grease in the photos. I also note similar smaller lines at 12:00, 2:00, and 3:30 on the obverse. >>

Scratches on the plastic. And thanks coindeuce, for the suggestion on the re holder to edgeview.

Yet another crossover question!

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