It's a false leap in logic to suspect this would be a better place- a forum where information is gathered and shared with pinpoint accuracy and fairness- simply if we knew each others true names.
<< <i>It's a false leap in logic to suspect this would be a better place- a forum where information is gathered and shared with pinpoint accuracy and fairness- simply if we knew each others true names. >>
IMO, a current example of a reasonable and constructive response in this thread. And, for the record, I agree with this.
<< <i>No wonder Hot Topics get written and PCGS considers shutting this place down time after time.... >>
Gee... And just who was the catalyst for all this? Answer: The same coin dealer that's been churning this crap for a decade. I hope PCGS recognizes that.
<< <i>I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
Not all - just a select few. >>
You are in complete agreement with that column? >>
Nah, I don't read her Hot Topics anymore - just her Market Reports. But I can certainly say that Author1's posts in both threads show cause for what I garner to be the gist of her column. Defamatory falsehoods penned behind an anonomous user name. Somewhat akin to the very expensive lawsuit currently in process on that Ripoff site.
I read the report...so what? It's just another one of a billion opinions written in a blog. Like someone posting here, a form of blogging just in a more controlled environment, Laura is entitled to her opinion post in a blog-like format on her website. In fact the debate it creates actually gives her opinion attention that otherwise it would never garner so in fact we are helping to fuel the debate...all good
Our society has become increasingly narcissistic year after year since the advent of the internet and, more recently, social media. People that were otherwise indistinguishable from the masses suddenly have a voice, and that is a powerful thing! I say let the voices be heard, and let the people feel good about what they have to say; it's certainly better than silence and ignorance.
If I were to offer one piece of constructive advice to Laura: when you write information on your own website it becomes a form of branding. With that in mind, you should treat content posted to you website equal to a television commercial about your company that might be seen by 50 million people. Ask yourself, what do you want 50 million people to see about your company? One thing you should try to avoid is spelling mistakes, which you have a lot of. This tells me that you posted your content in haste and largely out of emotion. A more thought through, well written, point of view that has proper grammar would probably be better branding for your company.
I prefer that you simply respond constructively and with reasonableness. Otherwise, I suggest you chill out. >>
What? Not sure how my comment has anything to do with you? >>
Am I not part of "all PCGS forum members"?
I don't need you to speak up on my behalf. In fact, I really want you to refrain from doing so. Don't give the pretense that you are trying to speak for anyone other than yourself.
I have to read Laura's blog this week. I'll be back to edit this in a minute and give my views. Not that any of our views are important. Yet,… some are critically acclaimed and rightfully, too. I wonder why.
edit to add: Hmmmmm, seems reasonable. Classic Laura. A few things (minor) I disagree with , but we are entitled to our thoughts. Bless her.
I visited Legends office over a week ago to view coins from their upcoming auction. They could not have been more professional or nicer to me than they were. When I posted about my visit and commented about whittling down my choices after viewing in person the coins I liked, the comments started flying. Some were appreciative of my efforts to view and share my observations. Others took the opportunity to use the thread to bash Laura, not Legend, but Laura.
My thread was about the importance of viewing coins before bidding, and was in no way intended to diss them about there pictures. I found the coins overall to be nicer in hand when I looked them over, which I mentioned in the thread. Because I did view them I was able to pare down my choice to the few coins that I consider good enough to add to my collection.
Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
Laura has been a very positive influence on the hobby overall. Maybe she should post here to call out people in those instances where she thinks someone is being defamatory. Some of us do use our real names though in retrospect that may not be the wisest thing to do.
Wow, "Hot Topics" sure is an appropriate name for the column. It's good for people to be shaken out of their comfy rocking chairs and be made to think. Agree or not.
She writes:
<< <i>My guess is OVER 60% of what I have seen has been inaccurate or just plain false information lately. >>
That may or may not be accurate but lets say that it is.
If Joe Schmo from Kokomo (or most anybody) states something as fact, regarding something I'm interested in, I'm going to vet it out. Do my own research before making any decisions. I suspect most anybody would.
If EagleEye, PennyLady, TDN or any other of the many lifetime achievers here state a fact or an opinion, that's a different story.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
I would have absolutely no problem using my real name here. I try to contribute where I can, ask questions I don't have the answers for, and voice my opinion when I feel I need to. I enjoy doing this, and have no need hide. In my experience, misinformation here is usually set upon and called out soon after being posted. These boards have benefited me immensely over the years, as have the Legend reports and Hot Topics, and I really don't want either to ever go away.
--Christian Merlo
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct.
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I have no problem with Laura posting anything she wants on her blog. But, I also think that it would be more constructive to help teach people instead of shut the forum down. Internet forums are the new Coin Club, and I'm sure there is/was just as much misinformation before the forums existed. I know that at my local club, and at local coin shows and shops, I hear people passing bad information along to new collectors all the time. That is why I try to help promote learning at all levels, and at least a couple times a year we try to do educational presentations to help people learn. Do I know everything? Far from it, but what I do know, I try to pass to others, and what I don't know, I come to places like this to learn.
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks. >>
His comments speak more about him than it does about anything else.
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks. >>
Coup mentality got me. He is controlling the media right now and it is working. OK, I change it to "People" instead of my implication. That seems to fit him better anyway!
<< <i> Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend?
<< <i> Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
<< <i> Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
If I had the ability to kiss your ring, I would. >>
I personally believe that this forum should only be open to PCGS members, though I am sure there have been some excellent contributions from non-members through the years.
<< <i> I know that at my local club, and at local coin shows and shops, I hear people passing bad information along to new collectors all the time. >>
Absolutely true. At a coin club meeting a few months ago, a prominent local dealer did a presentation and there were 4 or 5 errors that I caught (and I know I don't know everything). The errors weren't egregious or self-serving, but the information was wrong nonetheless. Yes, it was possible to ask questions, but I think the forum here has the advantage of being able to thoroughly dissect an issue without time constraints, and with a much larger audience. People who read here regularly should be able to tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't. In a coin club meeting, in a face-to-face discussion with a dealer or collector, you don't have the time or the wide audience to completely vet information.
Without this forum I would never have access to the knowledge of so many people.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I personally believe that this forum should only be open to PCGS members, though I am sure there have been some excellent contributions from non-members through the years. >>
If a collector buys and sells PCGS coins, are they not a customer of PCGS indirectly? Are they not making a market in PCGS products and ultimately help drive PCGS revenues? What about a new collector? Wouldn't you want them to come here and eventually they may submit coins or buy PCGS coins?
I own a GMC pickup. I did not buy it from GMC directly. Should I not be allowed on a GMC forum? I buy Proctor and Gamble products at the store but don't currently own its stock. Should I not be allowed to post on a Proctor and Gamble message board?
<< <i>The world of coins is only so big, I am going to be so disappointing that when she runs out of things to bash. >>
She's been recycling the same half dozen themes for over a decade now. Actually, when the market was hot (pre-2008), she used to complain a lot about how tight the grading services were. Now that one has dropped out of the rotation for obvious reasons. The latest salvo seems like nothing more than a calculated attempt at some cheap publicity.
<< <i>The world of coins is only so big, I am going to be so disappointing that when she runs out of things to bash. >>
She's been recycling the same half dozen themes for over a decade now. Actually, when the market was hot (pre-2008), she used to complain a lot about how tight the grading services were. Now that one has dropped out of the rotation for obvious reasons. The latest salvo seems like nothing more than a calculated attempt at some cheap publicity. >>
<< <i>Trust me Laura doesn't care about coin doctors unless it costs her money. Any good dealer buying a coin sign seen should not be ripped off by a coin doctor. >>
That sounds pretty ignorant to say.....
"Trust you"? You speak for Laura or something? You read her mind? You found a smoking gun in some sort of documentation to back up what you just said?
At the end of the day, coin doctors DO hurt legitimate coin dealers because they can turn people off from collecting, or even just spending above a certain amount for certain coins. So, legitimate coin sales can be hurt.
Overall, though, I find it funny how you (Author1) and Wabbit2313, will make such overall encompassing statements such as you did above and he does when he says something like "I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. "
Sure, he can view it that way, and that is his prerogative, but, come on folks....ALL PCGS forum members? Is that something any reasonable person would actually believe? All?
Sheesh. Too many like to create drama and hide behind the forums. Whether hiding behind a forum name or not, they sure like to hide from the safety of their own home and keyboard. Say to someone's face what you would say to them here. And, before you puff out your chests saying "yes! I would!", realize that very few actually would and a lot that say they would....HAVEN'T....but have had chances, I would bet, if they have visited any large shows where she attends.
The term "paper tigers" comes to mind when I read posts from certain members here who are always bagging on her and other certain people/things.
I don't believe that Laura has any intention of getting free publicity, I think she really believes what she is saying. If you look at her writing style, it looks like her writings are done in haste/full of emotion. It's almost as if her writings are a knee-jerk reaction/she snaps after brewing something for a while, and needs to vent.
For example, it must be difficult to sell a coin for $6,500 when it sold at prior auction for $3,900, especially in a different serial number holder after a non-upgrade. It must also be frustrating. Take that and multiply it times a hundred, it's clear to see how that kind of business model might be threatened by openness and crowd-sourcing feedback.
Times have changed...the Internet has become an equalizer. It's all about transparency and authenticity. Business models that rely on an expert are under threat.
As one famous man said, and it's a PCGS banner also, where experts are many facts are few
I say live and let live...enjoy the opinion on a topic and move on
<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
I concur. I have read her hot topics in the past and they left me not wanting to even look at her inventory. I'm not saying she isn't great to deal with or anything negative about Heritage but her rantings have turned me off to even considering doing business with them. To be fair - I hate the process of rying to prosper by talking negatively about the competition instead of just promoting their own product.
Honestly, what does she think this hot topic is going to accomplish?
So far it has turned forum member against forum member - nice job
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
I concur. I have read her hot topics in the past and they left me not wanting to even look at her inventory. I'm not saying she isn't great to deal with or anything negative about Heritage but her rantings have turned me off to even considering doing business with them. To be fair - I hate the process of rying to prosper by talking negatively about the competition instead of just promoting their own product.
Honestly, what does she think this hot topic is going to accomplish?
So far it has turned forum member against forum member - nice job >>
<< <i> Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
Nice debating ploy.. state something else as fact then draw conlusion to what else is being said as also not true .. No questions here about legend's customers legend vetted or risky party..I even bought a DMPL from legend some years ago What is true is that some my fellow club members who still are big stock traders ..buy into other collectibles and shy away from buying pricey coins for fear of being taken or overpaying for rare coins..
I still haven't figured out the unnamed offending thread. This one seems to indicate the misinformation trigger was LS, Legend or inventory specific misinformation.
1. what can be done in this forum can be done in many other ways elsewhere, including word of mouth 2. As mentioned, this forum has a way of eventually asking the right questions and those who hold tightly to "bad ideas" eventually out themselves. 3. While flame wars are mutually detrimental, proper brand or information management can help mitigate issues from even the best mud slingers.
And, most importantly, also as previously mentioned, it can happen anywhere and everywhere, and this is what people do. Putting names on it won't stop any more than a change in venue.
<< <i> Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
Nice debating ploy.. state something else as fact then draw conlusion to what else is being said as also not true .. No questions here about legend's customers legend vetted or risky party..I even bought a DMPL from legend some years ago What is true is that some my fellow club members who still are big stock traders ..buy into other collectibles and shy away from buying pricey coins for fear of being taken or overpaying for rare coins.. >>
The other party to the discussion brought up the issue of RISK in dealing with Legend. If you follow the entire conversation, rather than the snippet, I have stayed on point while the other party claimed "personal attack".
I never would have thought Ms Sperber would have another 100+ thread.
This is one of the few times I mostly disagree with her.
She has hity on one of the weaknesses of the venue but this applies to all venues to dispense information and especially message boards; inaccuracy. Just as they'll let anyone at all write a book they let anyone post on a message board. There are errors and inaccuracies everywhere and I've been caught in my fair share of them.
The strenght of the site is someone can pick through all the chaffe and find plenty of kernals if they're willing to do the work. Indeed, there seems to be far more kernals here than chaffe.
Furthermore, coin collectors are hardly quick to advertise their avocation. We tend to prefer to remain as anonymous as possible despite the fact everything we do on the net can be tracked and we're still answerable to all federal and state laws.
Most of the message boards out there have a far higher chaffe to kernal ratio than this site does. Many sites are far less polite and some have even more axes to grind. This is one of the best sites on the net though, perhaps, she's right that newcomers should be more aware that there's worse than just chaffe hiding in these pages.
Comments
<< <i>It's a false leap in logic to suspect this would be a better place- a forum where information is gathered and shared with pinpoint accuracy and fairness- simply if we knew each others true names. >>
IMO, a current example of a reasonable and constructive response in this thread. And, for the record, I agree with this.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>
I don't need you to defend me.
I prefer that you simply respond constructively and with reasonableness. Otherwise, I suggest you chill out. >>
What? Not sure how my comment has anything to do with you?
<< <i>
<< <i>I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
Not all - just a select few.
even when you aren't trying for 100 you get it
it is a fast moving thread though
<< <i>
<< <i>I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
Not all - just a select few.
You are in complete agreement with that column?
<< <i>No wonder Hot Topics get written and PCGS considers shutting this place down time after time.... >>
Gee... And just who was the catalyst for all this? Answer: The same coin dealer that's been churning this crap for a decade. I hope PCGS recognizes that.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
Not all - just a select few.
You are in complete agreement with that column? >>
Nah, I don't read her Hot Topics anymore - just her Market Reports. But I can certainly say that Author1's posts in both threads show cause for what I garner to be the gist of her column. Defamatory falsehoods penned behind an anonomous user name. Somewhat akin to the very expensive lawsuit currently in process on that Ripoff site.
Our society has become increasingly narcissistic year after year since the advent of the internet and, more recently, social media. People that were otherwise indistinguishable from the masses suddenly have a voice, and that is a powerful thing! I say let the voices be heard, and let the people feel good about what they have to say; it's certainly better than silence and ignorance.
If I were to offer one piece of constructive advice to Laura: when you write information on your own website it becomes a form of branding. With that in mind, you should treat content posted to you website equal to a television commercial about your company that might be seen by 50 million people. Ask yourself, what do you want 50 million people to see about your company? One thing you should try to avoid is spelling mistakes, which you have a lot of. This tells me that you posted your content in haste and largely out of emotion. A more thought through, well written, point of view that has proper grammar would probably be better branding for your company.
Cheers.
/mdg.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I don't need you to defend me.
I prefer that you simply respond constructively and with reasonableness. Otherwise, I suggest you chill out. >>
What? Not sure how my comment has anything to do with you? >>
Am I not part of "all PCGS forum members"?
I don't need you to speak up on my behalf. In fact, I really want you to refrain from doing so. Don't give the pretense that you are trying to speak for anyone other than yourself.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I have to read Laura's blog this week. I'll be back to edit this in a minute and give my views. Not that any of our views are important. Yet,… some are critically acclaimed and rightfully, too.
I wonder why.
edit to add:
Hmmmmm, seems reasonable. Classic Laura. A few things (minor) I disagree with , but we are entitled to our thoughts. Bless her.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
My thread was about the importance of viewing coins before bidding, and was in no way intended to diss them about there pictures. I found the coins overall to be nicer in hand when I looked them over, which I mentioned in the thread. Because I did view them I was able to pare down my choice to the few coins that I consider good enough to add to my collection.
Rainbow Stars
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
seems so.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Look at all my fellow old-timers.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
It's good for people to be shaken out of their comfy rocking chairs and be made to think. Agree or not.
She writes:
<< <i>My guess is OVER 60% of what I have seen has been inaccurate or just plain false information lately. >>
That may or may not be accurate but lets say that it is.
If Joe Schmo from Kokomo (or most anybody) states something as fact, regarding something I'm interested in, I'm going to vet it out.
Do my own research before making any decisions. I suspect most anybody would.
If EagleEye, PennyLady, TDN or any other of the many lifetime achievers here state a fact or an opinion, that's a different story.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
--Christian Merlo
<< <i>Sparky64,
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sparky64,
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct.
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
My Ebay Store
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sparky64,
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct.
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
His comments speak more about him than it does about anything else.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sparky64,
Not sure I agree with you. It's been said that most folks believe what they here. That's why during a coup, the side that controls the media usually has a huge upper hand.
EVP >>
At least the "village" part of your name is correct.
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
Coup mentality got me. He is controlling the media right now and it is working. OK, I change it to "People" instead of my implication. That seems to fit him better anyway!
<< <i>
<< <i>
Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
If I had the ability to kiss your ring, I would.
Once again, Laura casually tosses raw meat into the cage.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
If I had the ability to kiss your ring, I would. >>
Too much risk for me in that!
<< <i>The world of coins is only so big, I am going to be so disappointing that when she runs out of things to bash. >>
Huh?
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i> I know that at my local club, and at local coin shows and shops, I hear people passing bad information along to new collectors all the time. >>
Absolutely true. At a coin club meeting a few months ago, a prominent local dealer did a presentation and there were 4 or 5 errors that I caught (and I know I don't know everything). The errors weren't egregious or self-serving, but the information was wrong nonetheless. Yes, it was possible to ask questions, but I think the forum here has the advantage of being able to thoroughly dissect an issue without time constraints, and with a much larger audience. People who read here regularly should be able to tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't. In a coin club meeting, in a face-to-face discussion with a dealer or collector, you don't have the time or the wide audience to completely vet information.
Without this forum I would never have access to the knowledge of so many people.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I personally believe that this forum should only be open to PCGS members, though I am sure there have been some excellent contributions from non-members through the years. >>
If a collector buys and sells PCGS coins, are they not a customer of PCGS indirectly? Are they not making a market in PCGS products and ultimately help drive PCGS revenues? What about a new collector? Wouldn't you want them to come here and eventually they may submit coins or buy PCGS coins?
I own a GMC pickup. I did not buy it from GMC directly. Should I not be allowed on a GMC forum? I buy Proctor and Gamble products at the store but don't currently own its stock. Should I not be allowed to post on a Proctor and Gamble message board?
<< <i>The world of coins is only so big, I am going to be so disappointing that when she runs out of things to bash. >>
She's been recycling the same half dozen themes for over a decade now. Actually, when the market was
hot (pre-2008), she used to complain a lot about how tight the grading services were. Now that one has
dropped out of the rotation for obvious reasons. The latest salvo seems like nothing more than a calculated
attempt at some cheap publicity.
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<< <i>The world of coins is only so big, I am going to be so disappointing that when she runs out of things to bash. >>
She's been recycling the same half dozen themes for over a decade now. Actually, when the market was
hot (pre-2008), she used to complain a lot about how tight the grading services were. Now that one has
dropped out of the rotation for obvious reasons. The latest salvo seems like nothing more than a calculated
attempt at some cheap publicity. >>
It's working.
<< <i>Trust me Laura doesn't care about coin doctors unless it costs her money. Any good dealer buying a coin sign seen should not be ripped off by a coin doctor. >>
That sounds pretty ignorant to say.....
"Trust you"?
You speak for Laura or something? You read her mind? You found a smoking gun in some sort of documentation to back up what you just said?
At the end of the day, coin doctors DO hurt legitimate coin dealers because they can turn people off from collecting, or even just spending above a certain amount for certain coins. So, legitimate coin sales can be hurt.
Overall, though, I find it funny how you (Author1) and Wabbit2313, will make such overall encompassing statements such as you did above and he does when he says something like "I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. "
Sure, he can view it that way, and that is his prerogative, but, come on folks....ALL PCGS forum members? Is that something any reasonable person would actually believe? All?
Sheesh. Too many like to create drama and hide behind the forums. Whether hiding behind a forum name or not, they sure like to hide from the safety of their own home and keyboard. Say to someone's face what you would say to them here. And, before you puff out your chests saying "yes! I would!", realize that very few actually would and a lot that say they would....HAVEN'T....but have had chances, I would bet, if they have visited any large shows where she attends.
The term "paper tigers" comes to mind when I read posts from certain members here who are always bagging on her and other certain people/things.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
For example, it must be difficult to sell a coin for $6,500 when it sold at prior auction for $3,900, especially in a different serial number holder after a non-upgrade. It must also be frustrating. Take that and multiply it times a hundred, it's clear to see how that kind of business model might be threatened by openness and crowd-sourcing feedback.
Times have changed...the Internet has become an equalizer. It's all about transparency and authenticity. Business models that rely on an expert are under threat.
As one famous man said, and it's a PCGS banner also, where experts are many facts are few
I say live and let live...enjoy the opinion on a topic and move on
I want to rephrase. When someone thinks a forum should be shut down for the reasons given, I consider it an attack on all Mankind!
<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
I concur. I have read her hot topics in the past and they left me not wanting to even look at her inventory. I'm not saying she isn't great to deal with or anything negative about Heritage but her rantings have turned me off to even considering doing business with them. To be fair - I hate the process of rying to prosper by talking negatively about the competition instead of just promoting their own product.
Honestly, what does she think this hot topic is going to accomplish?
So far it has turned forum member against forum member - nice job
I disagree, except to the extent that all businesses are always under threat.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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<< <i>Laura seems to be kicking the nest to remain a topic of discussion on these boards. So far, it has been a successful advertising strategy. Always position yourself as Don Quixote tilting at straw men who threaten naive collectors. Feign righteous indignation when anyone questions your motives. So many bogeymen, wannabe dealers, dreck, TPG misgrading, cojn doctors, the ANA and now the message board members. >>
I concur. I have read her hot topics in the past and they left me not wanting to even look at her inventory. I'm not saying she isn't great to deal with or anything negative about Heritage but her rantings have turned me off to even considering doing business with them. To be fair - I hate the process of rying to prosper by talking negatively about the competition instead of just promoting their own product.
Honestly, what does she think this hot topic is going to accomplish?
So far it has turned forum member against forum member - nice job >>
Anything's possible
Time to nuke this thread.
I got to give her props for livening up the place a bit.
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Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
Nice debating ploy.. state something else as fact then draw conlusion to what else is being said as also not true ..
No questions here about legend's customers legend vetted or risky party..I even bought a DMPL from legend some years ago
What is true is that some my fellow club members who still are big stock traders ..buy into other collectibles and shy away from buying pricey coins for fear of being taken or overpaying for rare coins..
1. what can be done in this forum can be done in many other ways elsewhere, including word of mouth
2. As mentioned, this forum has a way of eventually asking the right questions and those who hold tightly to "bad ideas" eventually out themselves.
3. While flame wars are mutually detrimental, proper brand or information management can help mitigate issues from even the best mud slingers.
And, most importantly, also as previously mentioned, it can happen anywhere and everywhere, and this is what people do. Putting names on it won't stop any more than a change in venue.
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Have you ever seen a Legend customer complain about Legend? Have you ever seen Legend publicly bag a customer? I have not. It sounds like they would have more RISK dealing with you than the other way around. >>
Amazing how the condescending, when they run out of rational thoughts, resort to personal attacks.
I also view the latest column as a personal attack on all PCGS forum members. >>
How is that a personal attack? It looks more like a logical conclusion.
Legend is a well-vetted, well-known coin firm led by a sitting ANA governor. You are a nameless dude on a coin forum casting aspersions. Who would be the more risky party for me to engage in a transaction, you or Legend? >>
Nice debating ploy.. state something else as fact then draw conlusion to what else is being said as also not true ..
No questions here about legend's customers legend vetted or risky party..I even bought a DMPL from legend some years ago
What is true is that some my fellow club members who still are big stock traders ..buy into other collectibles and shy away from buying pricey coins for fear of being taken or overpaying for rare coins.. >>
The other party to the discussion brought up the issue of RISK in dealing with Legend. If you follow the entire conversation, rather than the snippet, I have stayed on point while the other party claimed "personal attack".
This is one of the few times I mostly disagree with her.
She has hity on one of the weaknesses of the venue but this applies to all venues to
dispense information and especially message boards; inaccuracy. Just as they'll let
anyone at all write a book they let anyone post on a message board. There are errors
and inaccuracies everywhere and I've been caught in my fair share of them.
The strenght of the site is someone can pick through all the chaffe and find plenty of
kernals if they're willing to do the work. Indeed, there seems to be far more kernals
here than chaffe.
Furthermore, coin collectors are hardly quick to advertise their avocation. We tend to
prefer to remain as anonymous as possible despite the fact everything we do on the
net can be tracked and we're still answerable to all federal and state laws.
Most of the message boards out there have a far higher chaffe to kernal ratio than this
site does. Many sites are far less polite and some have even more axes to grind. This
is one of the best sites on the net though, perhaps, she's right that newcomers should
be more aware that there's worse than just chaffe hiding in these pages.
This thread has some personality to it.