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one of the main problems with our economy
bronco2078
Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is that those in the position to make decisions tend to listen to economists advice but economists are stupid , useless , and dangerous
0
bronco2078
Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is that those in the position to make decisions tend to listen to economists advice but economists are stupid , useless , and dangerous
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CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
And yes, our economy is controlled by academic theory, not real world experience. Economics is not a science, it is as simple as living within your means and planning a budget - we are all economists to some degree.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Krugman's editorial
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
or the notion that the American worker is lazy, stupid, spoiled, or incapable is the biggest bunch of malarkey to come down the pike in history. The Japanese thought Americans were all of the above, and we all know where that got them. Take care. jws
That's kind of a broad statement. It would be ignorant to think there is NOT a sector of Americans that are as such, and that number is growing daily.
and it would be ignorant to believe that this segment of society is so large it will cripple our workforce and force us to import labor.
<< <i>"the notion declining or inadequate skills in the American work-force were contributing to our economic woes was just plain silly". dpoole
or the notion that the American worker is lazy, stupid, spoiled, or incapable is the biggest bunch of malarkey to come down the pike in history. The Japanese thought Americans were all of the above, and we all know where that got them. Take care. jws >>
No insult intended or even shared, Julio.
Americans by and large are hard working and efficient. At issue is the fact that much of the rest of the world, seeing our success, has replicated us where applicable, and contrived according to local custom, to catch up and pass us by in terms of fostering skill sets. The individualism and question-authority inclination that has been the generator of American greatness has also become our vulnerability in the new globalized world.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I beg to differ, because I see it happening. It's a slow death, but a sure one.
None taken, enjoy your posts.
Piecesofme, we just have to agree to disagree. Take care. jws
I think that's a great question, because even if gold were used as currency the value of gold would fluctuate. (The population always fluctuates, as do the amounts of goods & services produced.)
The utopians think that they can modulate how things work by trying to match money growth to whatever parameters they think are important. They are grossly overpaid, imo.
I knew it would happen.
Thank you, wasn't even paying attention though lol.
Piecesofme, we just have to agree to disagree. Take care. jws
<< <i>I've taken three classes in economics in college (not my major, just for fun) and it is amazing the things my professors say and think. Don't even get me started on how out of touch with reality the economics major students are. It's scary how much influence these people have. >>
Had a few in my business major. VERY big Keynesians. Appears that most of them just regurgitate what they learned.
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(not me personally. This is a "defense contractor's " line)
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The main problem is that humans think they are smarter than nature. Continued violation of Darwin's Law will have severe consequences. >>
What you said....me too!
<< <i>The main problem is that humans think they are smarter than nature. Continued violation of Darwin's Law will have severe consequences. >>
And how do evolution or the laws of nature fit into economics?
The major problem with economists is that their first goal is to convince everyone else that economics is a science and that there are "laws" to be applied and only highly educated individuals can do this. It is not a science and there are not special "laws" that need to be applied. Making something scientific that is nothing more than common sense is strictly for the benefit of those getting paid to provide the opinion/policy. Economics is nothing more than an understanding of the consequences of money decisions whether they be for an individual or for a societal group. A good understanding of how to use a calculator is a plus.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Economics could be scientific , the problem is there are too many variables to do any type of reproducible experiments. Kind of like climate change.
It's fine to have a theory but if the system you are trying to model is too complex you can't prove the theory.
There is also the issue of interested parties acting to suppress results that would harm them and promote results that benefit them.
At this point the legitimacy of economics is on par with that creationism.
I agree. This is true in a rational world. However, what we've experienced is proof that rationality is not always the predominant mode of thought. I find myself wondering how long an over-extended fiat currency that also happens to be the world's reserve currency can be maintained under the pressures being exerted on it. I also wonder what happens when it does fail, which seems to be the trendline that we're on. We've seen similar history play out before, but never on such a global scale.
I knew it would happen.
out in Sirius and the Orion systems, they got it goin on. They still give us hints every now and again?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
out in Sirius and the Orion systems, they got it goin on. They still give us hints every now and again?
As was recently noted in another thread - "Wow, what a diatribe." Seriously, Baley try making a point without being so derogatory.
I knew it would happen.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>Baleyville is another planet. >>
Mixing it up with alien intelligence makes this the best forum I visit. I don't agree 100% with anyone here. Matter of fact I don't agree with myself half the time.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>The main problem is that humans think they are smarter than nature. Continued violation of Darwin's Law will have severe consequences. >>
And how do evolution or the laws of nature fit into economics?
The major problem with economists is that their first goal is to convince everyone else that economics is a science and that there are "laws" to be applied and only highly educated individuals can do this. It is not a science and there are not special "laws" that need to be applied. Making something scientific that is nothing more than common sense is strictly for the benefit of those getting paid to provide the opinion/policy. Economics is nothing more than an understanding of the consequences of money decisions whether they be for an individual or for a societal group. A good understanding of how to use a calculator is a plus. >>
RIP Nobel laureate economist Gary Becker who died Saturday at age 83.
Too bad he didn't live long enough for some of the big brains on this board to clue him in on the way of things..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>RIP Nobel laureate economist Gary Becker who died Saturday at age 83.
Too bad he didn't live long enough for some of the big brains on this board to clue him in on the way of things.. >>
"Becker received the Nobel Prize in 1992 "for having extended the domain of microeconomic analysis to a wide range of human behaviour and interaction, including nonmarket behaviour".
Like I said, they want you to think economics is a science when in reality it is common sense. Sounds like Becker was a psychogist more than he was an economist. Nobel prizes - don't they give them to just about anyone in the national news?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Making something scientific that is nothing more than common sense is strictly for the benefit of those getting paid to provide the opinion/policy. >>
Embarrassingly, this describes my professional (psychology) as well.
Still, the best economists (like psychologists) are the ones who are most in touch with common sense, and can best communicate it to others. It's good to have such people around.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
<< <i>The main problem is that humans think they are smarter than nature. Continued violation of Darwin's Law will have severe consequences. >>
And how do evolution or the laws of nature fit into economics?
The major problem with economists is that their first goal is to convince everyone else that economics is a science and that there are "laws" to be applied and only highly educated individuals can do this. It is not a science and there are not special "laws" that need to be applied. Making something scientific that is nothing more than common sense is strictly for the benefit of those getting paid to provide the opinion/policy. Economics is nothing more than an understanding of the consequences of money decisions whether they be for an individual or for a societal group. A good understanding of how to use a calculator is a plus. >>
Economics is nothing more than an understanding of the consequences of money decisions whether they be for an individual or for a societal group
You answered your own question.
Now incorporate that idea into the notion that even the weak shall survive and the costs incurred in maintaining that ideology. Should an 83 yr old man have open heart surgery? Should we spend a million dollars to help an 800 pound woman lose weight? Should we spend $84,000 on I-V drug users to cure hepatitis? Should we keep a brain dead person in ICU for 3 months? Do we spend this money to keep people alive or to keep people employed in the heath care profession? What if we find a cure for cancer or make it so no one ever has a heart attack. Are we prepared for the consequences?
The human race has essentially said that life (of all species) is priceless and should be protected at all costs. What are the economics of fighting climate change (which had been occurring long before humans became humans)? Do we understand the economics of these decisions and the consequences? I believe not. And as such we will pay a hefty price.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
Now incorporate that idea into the notion that even the weak shall survive and the costs incurred in maintaining that ideology. Should an 83 yr old man have open heart surgery? Should we spend a million dollars to help an 800 pound woman lose weight? Should we spend $84,000 on I-V drug users to cure hepatitis? Should we keep a brain dead person in ICU for 3 months? Do we spend this money to keep people alive or to keep people employed in the heath care profession? What if we find a cure for cancer or make it so no one ever has a heart attack. Are we prepared for the consequences?
The human race has essentially said that life (of all species) is priceless and should be protected at all costs. What are the economics of fighting climate change (which had been occurring long before humans became humans)? Do we understand the economics of these decisions and the consequences? I believe not. And as such we will pay a hefty price. >>
A fine argument against socialism.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>At what point did one become an economic slave? >>
Fixed that for you
<< <i>
<< <i>
Now incorporate that idea into the notion that even the weak shall survive and the costs incurred in maintaining that ideology. Should an 83 yr old man have open heart surgery? Should we spend a million dollars to help an 800 pound woman lose weight? Should we spend $84,000 on I-V drug users to cure hepatitis? Should we keep a brain dead person in ICU for 3 months? Do we spend this money to keep people alive or to keep people employed in the heath care profession? What if we find a cure for cancer or make it so no one ever has a heart attack. Are we prepared for the consequences?
The human race has essentially said that life (of all species) is priceless and should be protected at all costs. What are the economics of fighting climate change (which had been occurring long before humans became humans)? Do we understand the economics of these decisions and the consequences? I believe not. And as such we will pay a hefty price. >>
A fine argument against socialism.
It is and raises some tough questions. If it's your Mom or Dad who requires $1 million in spending to keep them alive for another year then your answer might vary. It's being played out hundreds of times every day in the U.S. with no easy answers - currently there is no cap on how much Medicare/Medicaid/ACA will spend to keep a person alive.
If we found a cure for cancer or no one ever had a heart attack I believe the consequences would be good. We would allocate the trillions of capital that went to medical resources to say maybe finding an unlimited cheap energy source instead of fossil fuels, or ending world hunger, try to save the planet from climate change. The human race once conquering diseases would use those resources that went into medical cures to countless other problems plaguing humanity. At least I hope this is what happens.
We had had a few revolutions in the past-the Industrial and Technological Revolutions (still ongoing) that have benefited mankind's progress. Perhaps there is a revolution we haven't even comprehended yet.
Right now the world seems to headed for an economic collapse. Financialization of the World Economy has done more harm than good. Capital is not being properly allocated to benefit mankind. Maybe we need a reset. Financilization
Box of 20
<< <i>
If we found a cure for cancer or no one ever had a heart attack I believe the consequences would be good. We would allocate the trillions of capital that went to medical resources to say maybe finding an unlimited cheap energy source instead of fossil fuels, or ending world hunger, try to save the planet from climate change. The human race once conquering diseases would use those resources that went into medical cures to countless other problems plaguing humanity. At least I hope this is what happens.
We had had a few revolutions in the past-the Industrial and Technological Revolutions (still ongoing) that have benefited mankind's progress. Perhaps there is a revolution we haven't even comprehended yet.
Right now the world seems to headed for an economic collapse. Financialization of the World Economy has done more harm than good. Capital is not being properly allocated to benefit mankind. Maybe we need a reset. Financilization >>
Everything is Financialized , using your example of diseases , if a cure was found it would probably be suppressed. The pharma industry is all about getting paid to maintain people with diseases , they would probably be horrified if someone cured diabetes or cancer because they make so much money on the treatments.
I agree with the former. Degrading stable and strong economies in order to lessen the discrepancy with failing economies is destructive.
As to the latter, what is proper allocation, and according to who's standard?
do you really think that, or are you simply parroting something you read or heard?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Everything is Financialized , using your example of diseases , if a cure was found it would probably be suppressed. The pharma industry is all about getting paid to maintain people with diseases , they would probably be horrified if someone cured diabetes or cancer because they make so much money on the treatments.
do you really think that, or are you simply parroting something you read or heard? >>
I would not go as far as the quote above. I received the Drug Store News for several years when I was in an affiliated trade. This industry publication would lament the poor flu season for retailers. In other words, folks healthy, revenue shrinks.
I also recall an article explaining to the trade the Diabetes is the highest revenue ailment in regard to the pharmaceutical retail trade. Making sure to allot ample space was necessary to insure that the retailer claimed his share of the retail dollars.
Clearly the industry is not as altruistic as we would like to believe. Holding back a Cancer cure, no, as they could name their price. But thinking that they share our sorrow when a family member is suffering, of course not.
<< <i>Everything is Financialized , using your example of diseases , if a cure was found it would probably be suppressed. The pharma industry is all about getting paid to maintain people with diseases , they would probably be horrified if someone cured diabetes or cancer because they make so much money on the treatments.
do you really think that, or are you simply parroting something you read or heard? >>
I'm just channeling my inner cynic .
Corporations have no qualms about harming people knowingly if they can make a profit.
<< <i>Corporations have no qualms about harming people knowingly if they can make a profit. >>
...or stem a loss, as in the case of the GM ignition switches.
GM ignition switch is half crony politics too , there was a GM bailout that couldn't be disrupted by bad news .
how about the BP oil spill in the gulf? They even got the president of the US to lie about that on camera ,
How about that little nuclear meltdown over in Japan?
<< <i>They even got the president of the US to lie about that on camera , >>
Which time?
<< <i>
<< <i>They even got the president of the US to lie about that on camera , >>
Which time? >>
Geithner admits WH asked him to lie on tv.
“I remember during one Roosevelt Room prep session before I appeared on the Sunday shows, I objected when Dan Pfeiffer wanted me to say Social Security didn’t contribute to the deficit. It wasn’t a main driver of our future deficits, but it did contribute. Pfeiffer said the line was a ‘dog whistle’ to the left, a phrase I had never heard before. He had to explain that the phrase was code to the Democratic base, signaling that we intended to protect Social Security.”
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Could there be an economic war between the U.S. vs. Russia and China is they circumvent the U.S. Dollar Reserve Currency? Would the U.S. begin to sanction Chinese imports into the U.S.?
Box of 20
"It’s the Tulip bubble redux, and we all know how that went, but nobody says a thing as long as there’s a buck to be made."
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>.?Russia Holds "De-Dollarization Meeting": China, Iran Willing To Drop USD From Bilateral Trade
Could there be an economic war between the U.S. vs. Russia and China is they circumvent the U.S. Dollar Reserve Currency? Would the U.S. begin to sanction Chinese imports into the U.S.? >>
The dollar dropped as a global reserve currency would be a blessing for the US.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear