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CBH...will it grade?
lkeigwin
Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
Something I picked up at the Santa Clara show yesterday. It's off to PCGS. Do you think it will grade problem-free, and if so at what grade?
Lance.
Lance.
Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
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"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
It's a little special so fingers crossed.
Lance.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I'm hoping for 45 for but I'll take 40.
It's a little special so fingers crossed.
Lance. >>
Awesome coin, Lance, and right up my ally. I wish all of my Busts had this look.
It has the detail of a 45 but not quite the "meat" of a 45, whatever that means. Still, it has a good shot. I'd say 60% chance it grades 40 and a 40% chance it grades 45.
Lance.
<< <i>Any guesses on the die marriage?
Lance. >>
1827 ? Not me.... I'll just wait for someone else to fill in that blank
I say yes and grade as XF40.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Rim bump on the reverse doesn't seem too bad.
I say yes and grade as XF40. >>
These were my thoughts as well. I like the coin.
Latin American Collection
My observations from the grading coming out of BOTH services is that there is a competition to see who can tighten the grades the most.
If the coin has decent luster, XF45. A little luster, XF40. No luster, VF35. It seems to be the way they are grading now, right or wrong. (By the book, XF coins may or may not have luster, and VF coins shouldn't have luster. Just sayin'!)
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
<< <i>I think the graders will realize it's a LDS and give it an XF40. >>
+1
or they won't and they'll give it a 35.
Tom
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the graders will realize it's a LDS and give it an XF40. >>
+1
or they won't and they'll give it a 35. >>
+2
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the graders will realize it's a LDS and give it an XF40. >>
+1
or they won't and they'll give it a 35. >>
I think the graders will not realize it is an LDS. Weak mushy strikes and LDS coins are not getting very high grades ATM.
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
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The story is I picked this up at the Santa Clara show on Friday. Bought it from a longtime bust half specialist. The dealer, an early Bust Half Nut Club member, assembled a set of 439 die marriages over decades and has owned more than 3300 bust halves. I browsed through a hundred or so raw coins, each with its variety noted and the dealer's grade opinion. No major differences on grade. But without my Overton book I couldn't verify the die marriages.
I passed on the R6's I couldn't afford and picked a few R4's. I did like the look of this coin too, tagged as an O.124a R5+ XF. We settled on a very fair price and I took them home and shot pictures. I like to attribute from big images.
It is amazing how close the two varieties are...the O.135 R3 and O.124 R5+. But it didn't take long to see it wasn't the O.124a. So back to the show I went this morning (Sunday), relieved to see the dealer hadn't left early. I brought along blown-up images of a real O.124 and O.135 (thank you Sheridan!) and it didn't take long for him to see his error and take care of me.
Lesson learned is not to buy scarce die marriages without checking reference material. I guess I have to lug around Overton's book.
Lance.
<< <i>O.135 is correct.
The story is I picked this up at the Santa Clara show on Friday. Bought it from a longtime bust half specialist. The dealer, an early Bust Half Nut Club member, assembled a set of 439 die marriages over decades and has owned more than 3300 bust halves. I browsed through a hundred or so raw coins, each with its variety noted and the dealer's grade opinion. No major differences on grade. But without my Overton book I couldn't verify the die marriages.
I passed on the R6's I couldn't afford and picked a few R4's. I did like the look of this coin too, tagged as an O.124a R5+ XF. We settled on a very fair price and I took them home and shot pictures. I like to attribute from big images.
It is amazing how close the two varieties are...the O.135 R3 and O.124 R5+. But it didn't take long to see it wasn't the O.124a. So back to the show I went this morning (Sunday), relieved to see the dealer hadn't left early. I brought along blown-up images of a real O.124 and O.135 (thank you Sheridan!) and it didn't take long for him to see his error and take care of me.
Lesson learned is not to buy scarce die marriages without checking reference material. I guess I have to lug around Overton's book.
Lance. >>
Glad your story had a happy ending, Lance.
You're right, the two varieties do bear many similarities, but one good indicator of O.124 is an LDS obverse paired with an EDS reverse. The stars on the obverse will almost always be drawn to the edge with no milling remaining at the rim, while the reverse will have full milling and no striations in the lettering near the rim.
Good points, Brian. The graving error on the 4th stripe (that goes below the shield) on the 124 is another indicator, as well as the TA position in STATES...just a tad different between the two marriages. Those two things convinced me.
I enjoy a good lesson. I just hate learning the same one twice.
Lance.
The obv die used to strike the O-124 was die 17. It was later used as die 22 for
the obv of O-135.
Other differences include:
rev. O124 the top arrowhead is closer to A3 than O-135.
Rev. O-124 there is a wider separation between the 5 & 0 .
Rev. O-124 the base of T3 is even with base of A1, but base of T3 is higher on O-135.
Rev. O-124 the center line of stripe 4 extends below the shield to the feathers.
Rev. O-135 crossbar 2 extends left of the shield.
There is a collection on CoinFacts that has most of the early half dollars by variety, with images
and is a good reference site.
Below is a newer collection that is also a good reference.
Great collection
R.I.P. Bear
O-135
And Lance is the culprit who took the pics too, of this former Overton collection member...
Lance, I hope you at least get a 40 out of it...Its a cool coin no matter what, and I wouldn't worry too much about the grade!
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
worth the extra effort to carry around the 4th edition IMO
I don't think they look at them long enough to determine die state! I recently sent in a 1876-CC dime DDR. This variety was struck with very rusted dies thus a very bad strike. My coin was a XF all day and the graded it VF30!
I even mentioned it on the submission form!
<< <i>XF-40, shot 45 >>
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I say 45.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I will even take it to the next level to suggest it was purchased from Sheridan Downey...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Do we have an answer on this one yet? Sorry if I missed it. >>
Coin was mis-attributed and returned to dealer. See earlier post by Lance. No grading took place.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do we have an answer on this one yet? Sorry if I missed it. >>
Coin was mis-attributed and returned to dealer. See earlier post by Lance. No grading took place. >>
Maybe returned, or maybe discounted from the R4+ price ? As an 1827 R3 in VF/XF pobably not worth grading...
<< <i>Maybe returned, or maybe discounted from the R4+ price ? As an 1827 R3 in VF/XF pobably not worth grading...
True, he might have meant a price adjustment by "take care of me". Hadn't thought of that.
So I returned to the show with pictures in hand and the dealer agreed. I promised to send the coin to him when PCGS returned it, and he pledged to send me my money back, including the grading and shipping fees. Which is exactly what happened.
As I said earlier, it was a good lesson. I am thankful it did not hurt.
PCGS called it XF40. And they got the die marriage correct. At least someone was on the ball.
Lance.