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Ebay Gold Buffalo scam ...
jarro
Posts: 2
I have never posted comments to any forum before. However, I feel that it is my duty to do so now. Being I am 65 years old and retired, I recently rejuvenated a youthful passion for coin collecting. Among other things I have been purchasing $50 Gold Buffalos.
Unfortunately, over this past weekend I know of at least 2 instances where a $5 souvenir replicas of the $59 gold Buffalo were auctioned off as authentic. The last one had 31 bids and sold for $1,451.00.
I know they were souvenirs by the fact that a blow-up the picture with the listing of the coin showed the word "copy" directly under the indians chin and I confirmed with the seller that the picture was of the actual coin being sold. Everything else about the listing indicated it was authentic, even showing the PCGS #. I nicely emailed the sellers, informing him that they were not authentic Buffalos and asked that the listings be withdrawn. Obviously they weren"t.
And now for the really disturbing part. I spent a considerable amount of time contacting Ebay to notify them of the fraudulent listings (I sent 3 emails & talked to 5 different people). In both instances I was assured by Ebay that they were most concerned and would take immediate actions to have the listings withdrawn. However, in neither case was anything done and the auctions were allowed to be completed.
In other words Ebay knowingly let innocent buyers be defrauded out of a substantial amount of money.
Since I am new to this and picked up on this Buffalo coin scam almost immediately, I can obviously conclude that these frauds are frequent and ongoing involving many types of coins. There is quite a bit of money that can be made selling $5 coins for $1,450. Even more disturbing is that Ebay knows that it is happening and does nothing about it even when conclusive evidence is given them on a silver platter.
I know of another dealer on Ebay ("COINCLUB") that sells all their coins encased in a NCG slab (not NGC) for those of us who are dyslexic. They are all fairly rare Morgan and Peace dollar dates and all with "certified" MS66, 67 & 68 ratings. Inocently, I bought one. I took it to 3 different local expert. They all said that the coin was cleaned and even if it wasn't it would not come close to being AU. I know, stupid but I could afford the lesson some can't. The really sad thing is that seller sells little else, deals in a high volume (several thousand) and is labeled a "trusted seller" by Ebay. I looked at the written reviews and the people innocently buying the NCG labels were giving ravingly good reviews about the sellers and the coins. In other words they were adding them to their collections without any idea that they had been had. (probably the same thing will happen with the Buffalos).
I know that I have now become greatly disillusioned with Ebay and am having serious doubts about using them any more, especially for coin purchases. The fact that even when they know a listing is fraudulent they will do nothing to warn the buyer is highly disturbing. It means that there is absolutely no deterrent for the scam artist.
I know this has been long winded but if it will save just a couple of people from being scammed it is worth it. If you can, please pass the word.
The following are links to the 2 sales:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-American-Buffalo-9999-Fine-Gold-/181331514048?ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123&item=181331514048&nma=true&si=irKIm%2FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-BUFFALO-50-GOLD-Bullion-Coin-9999-FINE-GOLD-2012-/111291233791?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=irKIm%2FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Unfortunately, over this past weekend I know of at least 2 instances where a $5 souvenir replicas of the $59 gold Buffalo were auctioned off as authentic. The last one had 31 bids and sold for $1,451.00.
I know they were souvenirs by the fact that a blow-up the picture with the listing of the coin showed the word "copy" directly under the indians chin and I confirmed with the seller that the picture was of the actual coin being sold. Everything else about the listing indicated it was authentic, even showing the PCGS #. I nicely emailed the sellers, informing him that they were not authentic Buffalos and asked that the listings be withdrawn. Obviously they weren"t.
And now for the really disturbing part. I spent a considerable amount of time contacting Ebay to notify them of the fraudulent listings (I sent 3 emails & talked to 5 different people). In both instances I was assured by Ebay that they were most concerned and would take immediate actions to have the listings withdrawn. However, in neither case was anything done and the auctions were allowed to be completed.
In other words Ebay knowingly let innocent buyers be defrauded out of a substantial amount of money.
Since I am new to this and picked up on this Buffalo coin scam almost immediately, I can obviously conclude that these frauds are frequent and ongoing involving many types of coins. There is quite a bit of money that can be made selling $5 coins for $1,450. Even more disturbing is that Ebay knows that it is happening and does nothing about it even when conclusive evidence is given them on a silver platter.
I know of another dealer on Ebay ("COINCLUB") that sells all their coins encased in a NCG slab (not NGC) for those of us who are dyslexic. They are all fairly rare Morgan and Peace dollar dates and all with "certified" MS66, 67 & 68 ratings. Inocently, I bought one. I took it to 3 different local expert. They all said that the coin was cleaned and even if it wasn't it would not come close to being AU. I know, stupid but I could afford the lesson some can't. The really sad thing is that seller sells little else, deals in a high volume (several thousand) and is labeled a "trusted seller" by Ebay. I looked at the written reviews and the people innocently buying the NCG labels were giving ravingly good reviews about the sellers and the coins. In other words they were adding them to their collections without any idea that they had been had. (probably the same thing will happen with the Buffalos).
I know that I have now become greatly disillusioned with Ebay and am having serious doubts about using them any more, especially for coin purchases. The fact that even when they know a listing is fraudulent they will do nothing to warn the buyer is highly disturbing. It means that there is absolutely no deterrent for the scam artist.
I know this has been long winded but if it will save just a couple of people from being scammed it is worth it. If you can, please pass the word.
The following are links to the 2 sales:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-American-Buffalo-9999-Fine-Gold-/181331514048?ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123&item=181331514048&nma=true&si=irKIm%2FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-BUFFALO-50-GOLD-Bullion-Coin-9999-FINE-GOLD-2012-/111291233791?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=irKIm%2FOWb4L8AJyy1MPpvCGFy1w%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
0
Comments
You will find many opinions of Ebay on this forum, as well as an incredible amount of information from experienced collectors. Many of whom made similar mistakes when they began collecting. You will also find an endless supply of daily posts on the forum dedicated to identifying fraudulent/counterfeit listings...and successfully killing many of those listings.
The more you familiarize yourself with the hobby you'll find that PCGS and NGC are highly regarded grading companies, with ANACS on the next tier, and everyone else pretty much considered raw coins with grade on the slab not worth any value in the market to knowledgeable collectors.
Hopefully, you'll find that the PCGS forum will be a good source of information and enjoyment for you.
Now, ebay may still cancel the auction even after it is completed. In that case the buyer will get notified that the
auction was cancelled and they don't have to pay if they had not yet done so. If they have paid they will, most
assuredly, have ebay's blessing in doing a full return including the shipping fee.
Don't be upset so that it takes the fun out of the hobby. I report fakes every day, pretty much. So do others
here on this forum and you will see that. Some of us are very active in reporting them and some of us are passive
and do nothing but enjoy their hobby.
Pick your fight and stick with it.
LINK
LINK 2
see a copy just report it as such. Clear violation of ebay rules. Nuked asap when so reported.
bob
"They say COPY on them, on BOTH sides. If people are going to bid on that, they deserve it. Ah, Ebay. Although, as far as I know, something cannot say it is .999 gold if it is a copy, so yes, it is a violation. Can they still be reported?"
no, they don't deserve it
Welcome to the forum. Fortunately, the buyer of the fakes will get their money back by filing a complaint with PayPal. That is if they know they were taken by the fakes.
Ebay is littered with garbage listings posted by scumbags. It has always been that way, although in the early years you had little chance of getting your money back on a bad deal. These days there are safety nets in place for victims of unscrupulous sellers.
<< <i>"They say COPY on them, on BOTH sides. If people are going to bid on that, they deserve it. Ah, Ebay. Although, as far as I know, something cannot say it is .999 gold if it is a copy, so yes, it is a violation. Can they still be reported?"
no, they don't deserve it >>
Of course they do deserve to be reported. They don't even meet the Hobby and Protection Act minimums
for the size of the word COPY. Clearly a violation of US law.
bob
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Hoard the keys.
Save and use this ebay form to report coin listing violations
Ebay is pretty good about taking care of the problem if it is brought to their attention. Best to use the above form for quicker results. You can list up to 10 item numbers on the form if they all violate the same policy. Be clear in your description with what policy is being violated. That will require a good review of ebay's coin and currency policy by you.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I think I've got just the avatar for you.
(Mind you, I haven't yet seen ol' Clint in that "Gran Torino" movie, but it seemed to fit, somehow.)
Like it? Save it to your computer, go to your profile tab at the top of the page, and you can upload your custom author icon from there.
If you want something different, I'll be happy to oblige.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I knew it would happen.
- I love the Monicor and may use it, although I picture myself more of a John Wane in True Grit
- Just because someone is trusting and fully knowledgeable does NOT mean they deserve to be screwed
-The first thing I did was report these violations on the indicated form 48 hours in advance. I did not start calling until the 24 hour mark. After being passed around, I got the fraud dept. where I was assured it would be taken care of.
-Although the buyer has recourse, that is only if he knows he's been had. I'm afraid that all too often, as with the "COINCLUB" NCG dollars I mentiooned, that the buyer stores them away never knowing of the fraud.
-I am delighted to hear the ebay continues there investigations even after the auction closes. Maybe these sellers didn't get away with it as I thought.
-And finally. Knowing that I am not knowledgable enough to grade coins and somewhat off an untrusting soul, I had already made the decision that for the time being I would buy nothing but PCGS AND NGC certified slabs. Over the past few months I have bought over 50 slabs that were nothing but. However, as I mentioned, my dumb ass is somewhat dyslexic and I read the NCG slabs to be NGC, as was obviously intended. I picked up on it as soon as I received the coin, confirmed my suspicions with several local dealers and returned the coin for a refund. However, as seen in reading the buyers feedbacks, that is normally not the case. COINCLUB is making a fortune with this scam.
My enthusiasm has damped considerably where Ebay is concerned but not so for my recently resumed hobby of coin collecting. I have managed to a preety good start with Peace dollars, walking Liberties and Franklin Proof with a smidgen gold and platinum mixed in.
Enjoy ...
Ebay can be your friend if you use it wisely.
Look at the sellers feedback.
Know exactly what you are buying and what it is worth.
I have bought at least ten thousand coins on ebay and I think I have returned one maybe two coins and got a full refund.
It is nice that you are reporting these scams, but please don't let it get to you, and you would not have any time left in the day if you reported all the scams.
Do not hesitate to report this type of scam to ebay/ccw
We have several forumites, myself included, that peruse eBay daily for scammers, con artist, counterfeits or items that are no longer allowed on eBay .... btw, welcome to the funny farm.