Not quite sure what kind of error this is

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 2:38AM

Went to my local antiques dealer to pick up a few sets. I bought a 1974 mint set for 12$. Get out to my car and pull out the sets to give them a quick look over and I find this on the P Eisenhower dollar. Has anyone ever seen this before or knoe what it is called? Also any idea on the rarity or the value? [URL=http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Derekbob24/media/Mobile Uploads/20140210_122403_zpsbpn2bkp1.jpg.html]

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ModCrewman · February 10, 2014 2:41AM

My first thought was Post Mint Damage...but as you're indicating it's still sealed in the mint set packaging...in which case I can offer nothing. If it's in an aftermarket holder, I'll return to my original PMD evaluation.

BustHalfBrian · February 10, 2014 2:44AM

Neat! It almost looks like it's been struck through a screw or something...

I would like to hear experts' opinions before jumping to conclusions.

LeeBone · February 10, 2014 2:46AM

Looks like reeding marks?

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 2:46AM

Still in original mint packaging

Unknown · February 10, 2014 2:46AM

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Unknown · February 10, 2014 2:47AM

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scooter25 · February 10, 2014 2:47AM

That is what i thought. It looks like the reverse of the coin got reeded somehow. The reeds aroujd the edge are full though.

BustHalfBrian · February 10, 2014 2:48AM

<< 

<< Neat! It almost looks like it's been struck through a screw or something...

I would like to hear experts' opinions before jumping to conclusions.

>>

I agree that it's a strikethrough, and looks like a screw or something, but I'd think a screw would really mess up a strike more than that, so no idea what it is, or what the value is. Nice find. >>

I was just thinking that, too. Right after posting my comment. A screw would probably cause the coin to split...

Edit: But look at the rim where the strike-through occurred. Doesn't that look like part of the butt of a screw?

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 2:50AM

<< 

<< Looks like reeding marks? >>

Worst bag mark ever, lol. >>

AGREED!!!!

FredWeinberg · February 10, 2014 2:57AM

Being in a still-sealed Mint Set
doesn't mean much - I've seen lots
of damaged coins, of all denominations,
still sealted in the plastic proof and
mint sets, as issued.

Usually, it's because the Sealing Machine
came down to seal the coins in their own
seperate sections, but a coin shifted, and
rec'd the hard imprint of the 'shoe' or whatever
seals the soft plastic......or in this case, a possible
damaged coin got into the sysytem.

What I see here is not a screw, that's for sure.

It's possible it's struck thru detached reeding,
but I would expect, as in most cases, to be able
to see some 'texture' around the reeding imprint.

The scans aren't the best, but I'm leaning toward
it being damaged after striking, and not an error.

As mentioned, better scans of the coin, and the
edge, would be helpful to make a more final determination.

ctf_error_coins · February 10, 2014 3:00AM

It just may be a struck thru reeding.

I have seen many example and they DO NOT like like this, but it is either struck thru reeding or PMD.

Better photos are needed of both sides.

desslok · February 10, 2014 3:12AM

Doesn't it look similar to the seam of the soft plastic pocket that the coin is in? Perhaps the sealing machine that packaged these mint sets missed its mark and hit the coin? At least from the image, the marking on the coin look to be the same shape and size as the seal pattern on the top.

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 3:19AM

[URL=http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Derekbob24/media/Mobile Uploads/20140210_131126_zpsx0eenso2.jpg.html]

[/URL]URL=http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Derekbob24/media/Mobile Uploads/20140210_131137_zpsz6lkybjh.jpg.html]

[/URL]URL=http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Derekbob24/media/Mobile Uploads/20140210_131255_zpsbrmcvidu.jpg.html]

[/URL]o the seals are dotted not reeded. I did find an almost flat spot on the edge about a quarter of the way around. [URL=http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Derekbob24/media/Mobile Uploads/20140210_131321_zpsiabu3vre.jpg.html]

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These are the best pictures I've got.

Icollecteverything · February 10, 2014 3:23AM

I think if it is a struck thru error then you will not see any traces of the lettering underneath.

If its PMD you should be able to see some of the design.

Looks like it could have been a bolt?

No damage to the plastic?

lkeigwin · February 10, 2014 3:31AM

Looks like the imprint from a bolt rather than a screw with a tapered shank and point.

OP, fix your Photobucket configuration to turn off the "link back option".
Lance.

CaptHenway · February 10, 2014 3:42AM

I suspect that an earlier coin had some extreme "finning" (possibly a capped die?) and part of the "fin" broke off and got struck into this coin. There seem to be some other small strike-throughs as well.

MOO

TD

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 3:49AM

the rim is damaged, too, isn't it?

does another ike fit into the groove?

thickness of it as compared to an ike?

reeding distance compared to each other?

ricko · February 10, 2014 4:23AM

Looks like PMD.... no indication of the lettering in the damage..... Cheers, RickO

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 5:02AM

Well its home now and upon ckoser inspection it cannot be a screw due to the fact that the lines are all perpindicular. Not at all slanted like a screw or a bolt would be. Also another eisenhower dollar fits directly into the grooves. Not quite sure what to do with this set now.

Bochiman · February 10, 2014 5:07AM

<< Well its home now and upon ckoser inspection it cannot be a screw due to the fact that the lines are all perpindicular. Not at all slanted like a screw or a bolt would be. Also another eisenhower dollar fits directly into the grooves. Not quite sure what to do with this set now. >>

From the pic, which is a good pic to view on this, it was pretty evident it wasn't a screw but rather was the edge of another reeded coin (another Ike fits, as you stated, which makes sense).

Now, would be good to give more photos as others have asked for, to see if there are more details to look at.
What could have happened was the coin was minted, in a bin, hit with another coin that caused that, and then put into the mint set. Would still be considered PMD.

What is interesting is actually figuring out how/when it happened due to the amount of pressure needed to do that like that.

All in all, I like it. At a small premium, not a large one though.

ctf_error_coins · February 10, 2014 5:15AM

<< [All in all, I like it. At a small premium, not a large one though. >>

If it is a real struck thru reeding, then it would carry a very large premium.

If is PMD, then it would carry Zero Premium.

I am the camp that I think it just might be real, but I think we need much better photos.

If I had this coin in hand, I would know within seconds wether it is an error or PMD.

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 5:44AM

Unfortunatly i do not have the means to take better pictures. There are no letters undrrneath the reeded part. It looks like when they were reeding the edge the coin got turned sideways in the machine. IMO.

ctf_error_coins · February 10, 2014 5:51AM

Look at the area very closely and think about what you are looking at. Did something (reeding) get in between the die and planchet and got stuck thru (or) did something hit the coin after it was struck PMD.

Look under the area on the obverse and is it a nice strong strike (or) is it flattened out as if a hard object hit the coin after the coin was struck.

lkrarecoins · February 10, 2014 5:55AM

Struck-through caterpillar...very rare

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 5:58AM

That area is very flat compared to an Ike's edge which is more round.

Reeding is imparted during striking, not in a separate process.

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 6:02AM

<< Well its home now and upon ckoser inspection it cannot be a screw due to the fact that the lines are all perpindicular. Not at all slanted like a screw or a bolt would be. Also another eisenhower dollar fits directly into the grooves. Not quite sure what to do with this set now. >>

Considering the obverse photos, it's a keeper.

ctf_error_coins · February 10, 2014 6:04AM

Here is a struck thru reeding that I sold earlier this year, (should have kept it

)

MedalCollector · February 10, 2014 8:06AM

Looking at all of the photos, I believe it is a genuine struck-through detached reeding error. Everything looks right to me. Most significant IMO, is that the obverse has no damage. Damage that large on the reverse would cause damage to the obverse, even on a coin this large. Also, look at the rim where the struck-through area meets it. It hasn't expanded the coin in anyway, nor does it look like the rim was originally fully-struck.

BLUEJAYWAY · February 10, 2014 8:14AM

I initially tended to favor OP dessloks theory on the sealing machine angle. But upon further thoughts I came to this question: Would the sealing machine exert the same amount of pressure as a coin press to imprint thoose groves? I do no recollect the PSI on a coin press, but I would think a sealing machine that seals the mint set packaging would be considerably less that the PSI it takes to strike a coin. Thereby the sealing machine would lack the PSI it would take to leave such an imprint. I think the sealing machine may involve just crimpers and possibly heat sealing as well. Just a theory, not based on any particular fact.

19Lyds · February 10, 2014 8:17AM

<< Well its home now and upon ckoser inspection it cannot be a screw due to the fact that the lines are all perpindicular. Not at all slanted like a screw or a bolt would be. Also another eisenhower dollar fits directly into the grooves. Not quite sure what to do with this set now. >>

I'll triple you money AND pay the shipping.............whatdoyouthink?

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 8:19AM

I think the sealing machine is out
1) the width is not the same as the width of the seal
2) the rim is not as damaged
3) the obverse shows no sign of post-strike pressure.

coindudeonebay · February 10, 2014 8:25AM

I have seen similar from 1965 that were struck through string. I'm leaning towards Lance's idea of struck on a bolt or similar but it would have left more of the reverse struck weakly or the bolt would have gone deeper. Just a thought.

CaptHenway · February 10, 2014 8:55AM

Leave it in the holder for now.
I still think it is a genuine striking error, and a good one at that!

BryceM · February 10, 2014 9:15AM

Cool. Looks like reeding and not a screw or bolt to me. Could a broken piece of collar do this?

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 9:19AM

I'd think the curved collar would be hard and distort if struck into a coin

Icollecteverything · February 10, 2014 9:46AM

If it is a struck-thru, whatever it struck must have been quite thin. Otherwise the details next to the area would not have been well struck if at all. The O in OF appears to be fully struck right up to that area. If a bolt had been between the die and the planchet I think a lot of detail would be missing.

MedalCollector · February 10, 2014 11:09AM

<< Cool. Looks like reeding and not a screw or bolt to me. Could a broken piece of collar do this?

<< 

<< I'd think the curved collar would be hard and distort if struck into a coin

<< 

<< If it is a struck-thru, whatever it struck must have been quite thin. Otherwise the details next to the area would not have been well struck if at all. The O in OF appears to be fully struck right up to that area. If a bolt had been between the die and the planchet I think a lot of detail would be missing.

<< 

As has been suggested before, it would be consistent with a struck through reeding error. Sometimes a previous error coin will have its reeding sheered off (due to some error) before it leaves the striking chamber, leaving the reeding to be struck into another coin.

I've seen reeding that has peeled off of broadstrikes and CaptHenway suggested reeding from finned rims which would make sense to me as well.

tincup · February 10, 2014 11:11AM

Though I am not sure just how it may have happened, I think it is a genuine error, strikethrough most likely. If it were PMD (or rather damage after the coin was minted) I would have expected to see the rim at the edge of the imprint to be flattened outwards some; perhaps flared out a bit from the coin. But that does not seem to be the case. Actually, seems to have a slight indent inwards on the rim at that point. Also, no sign of 'flattening' on the obverse.

Of course, like others have said, need much better pics to be able to tell better what is going on, but that would not be very easy given it is still in plastic. And I think I would keep it in the plastic at this point also.

A keeper in my book, at least until others can take a closer look at it. Nice find!

WoodenJefferson · February 10, 2014 12:12PM

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I'm concerned about the copper core that appears to have been exposed along the rim there. I'm leaning towards a glancing blow from the edge of another reeded coin, from the direction of the arrow. This was not a direct impact, but a angled dig from the edge of another coin. How that happened I have no idea. Also, what I cannot explain is the absence of a radius in the impact, makes no sense.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · February 10, 2014 12:18PM

<<

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I'm concerned about the copper core that appears to have been exposed along the rim there. I'm leaning towards a glancing blow from the edge of another reeded coin, from the direction of the arrow. This was not a direct impact, but a angled dig from the edge of another coin. How that happened I have no idea. Also, what I cannot explain is the absence of a radius in the impact, makes no sense. >>

I think that is glare and not the copper core...as the same color can be seen away from the coin all over the cello.

Erik

MsMorrisine · February 10, 2014 12:33PM

<<

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I'm concerned about the copper core that appears to have been exposed along the rim there. I'm leaning towards a glancing blow from the edge of another reeded coin, from the direction of the arrow. This was not a direct impact, but a angled dig from the edge of another coin. How that happened I have no idea. Also, what I cannot explain is the absence of a radius in the impact, makes no sense. >>

The color at the leftmost arrow is the same as in the extreme lower left.

Could the color at the right arrow be a shadow?

Are the reeds intact and undisturbed in that area?

errormaven · February 10, 2014 12:54PM

It looks promising, but an examination under a microscope would be necessary to determine whether it's a struck-through error or post-strike damage.

scooter25 · February 10, 2014 1:17PM

Wow well thanks for all the ideas guys. I might take itbtonsomeone and have them submit it. I am not sure what else to do with it. I am not thay inti error coins so I will more than likely sell it once i figure out what it is. Should give me a nice profit though

WoodenJefferson · February 10, 2014 1:25PM

After further consideration, yes, it appears that defect is a artifact from glare. My apologizes for assuming the copper core was exposed.

BLUEJAYWAY · February 10, 2014 1:48PM

On the reverse between the F of OF and A of AMERICA is that a partial hole or just surface damage of another kind? The latter group of pictures that show this particular area look different to me than the initial photos for that area.

Bochiman · February 10, 2014 1:57PM

<< Wow well thanks for all the ideas guys. I might take itbtonsomeone and have them submit it. I am not sure what else to do with it. I am not thay inti error coins so I will more than likely sell it once i figure out what it is. Should give me a nice profit though

>>

If it were me, before spending the money to submit it, I would contact one, or both, of the following board members to get their opinions...and maybe send it to one, or both:
errormaven
fredweinberg

Those are the only 2 opinions, prior to sending it in, that I would solicit and want to have in order to make a further decision. Other comments are nice, but those 2 are the ones, imho.

19Lyds · February 10, 2014 5:48PM

<< 

<< Wow well thanks for all the ideas guys. I might take itbtonsomeone and have them submit it. I am not sure what else to do with it. I am not thay inti error coins so I will more than likely sell it once i figure out what it is. Should give me a nice profit though

>>

If it were me, before spending the money to submit it, I would contact one, or both, of the following board members to get their opinions...and maybe send it to one, or both:
errormaven
fredweinberg

Those are the only 2 opinions, prior to sending it in, that I would solicit and want to have in order to make a further decision. Other comments are nice, but those 2 are the ones, imho. >>

I whole heartedly support this suggestion.

After all, PCGS sends it to Fred anyway so you might as well go their first. Mike, on the other hand is also very well qualified for figuring this stuff out.

Copper core? I think not since nothing shows in the first photo presented. Undoubtedly glare of some type.

CoinZip · February 10, 2014 11:27PM

I would love to photograph it.........

CaptHenway · February 11, 2014 12:13AM

<< On the reverse between the F of OF and A of AMERICA is that a partial hole or just surface damage of another kind? The latter group of pictures that show this particular area look different to me than the initial photos for that area. >>

One of the other minor strike throughs that I mentioned in my explanation involving finning. There appear to be others above where the ES of STATES would be.

TD

scooter25 · March 21, 2018 6:45PM

Maybe three years worth of camera upgrades will help get an answer on this. I still have the coin, probably shouldn't have taken it out of the mint packaging 3 years ago but oh well.
upgrades with

Not quite sure what kind of error this is

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