Fake Wiener Medals?

gummibear · January 30, 2014 1:42AM

About a year ago I had a few offers from Chinese addresses to buy some of my medals and I was wondering if they were going to start copying these medals. I didn't sell to them. But, I have been keeping an eye out for them. I think they may have started. The details on this and a few other medals this seller has all look cast. What do you think and should they be reported? Or, do you think ebay would even care about medals being copied.
Here is a link to one of them.link
Thanks,
Richard

Dentuck · January 30, 2014 1:55AM

You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal.

gummibear · January 30, 2014 2:11AM

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 2:29AM

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that.

LindeDad · January 30, 2014 2:51AM

Deffinatly fake the detail is not even close to real ones Buyer Beweary.

D · January 30, 2014 3:23AM

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D

AUandAG · January 30, 2014 3:39AM

Glad you didn't sell.

Appears that all of that sellers medals are fakes. Detail is lacking on all and bumps of metal abound
on most.

bob

CaptHenway · January 30, 2014 3:53AM

I can't tell if that listing is genuine or not. Looks suspicious, but it could just be an abused piece and/or poor photos.

As far as refusing to sell something to somebody you suspect might be intending to make counterfeits of it, I HIGHLY commend that practice! Good for you!

TD

Sonorandesertrat · January 30, 2014 4:14AM

"
As far as refusing to sell something to somebody you suspect might be intending to make counterfeits of it, I HIGHLY commend that practice! Good for you!"

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 4:16AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is.

AUandAG · January 30, 2014 4:27AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

That's nuts. A seller can pick and choose what he wants to sell and to whom. I'm banned by several sellers
on Ebay. They CHOOSE not to sell to me. Perfectly okay with that.

bob

BillJones · January 30, 2014 4:34AM

I don't collect these pieces, but I have "tire kicked" them at the shows, that piece does look suspicious. The devices are not nearly as sharp and dramatic as the examples I have seen, and the fields look grainy, like a cast piece.

The real problems with this come into play for the items that were cast originally. In other words if the real thing was cast then that makes spotting the fakes that much harder. Years ago a New Jersey foundry put out a bunch of fake Victor D. Brenner Lincoln plaques which fooled a lot of people including me. There was a crooked dealer who was knowingly selling these pieces in his auctions. I was lucky enough get my money back, only because I'm not shy about making life tougher for crooks. Counterfeits suck plain and simple.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 4:35AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

That's nuts. A seller can pick and choose what he wants to sell and to whom. I'm banned by several sellers
on Ebay. They CHOOSE not to sell to me. Perfectly okay with that.

bob

>>

And what was the basis for you being banned by several sellers on ebay - your behavior? a feeling the seller had? your ethnicity? Please tell.

MsMorrisine · January 30, 2014 4:38AM

The relief does not seem to be there.

Sonorandesertrat · January 30, 2014 4:38AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

My first reaction to this response was astonishment. On reflection, I guess that I shouldn't be surprised.

CaptHenway · January 30, 2014 4:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

You object to him doing what he thinks is right?

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 4:40AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

My first reaction to this response was astonishment. On reflection, I guess that I shouldn't be surprised. >>

I'm astonished you were surprised.
Wait.
No, I guess I'm not.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 4:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< You sold your authentic medals into the Chinese market?

Email the seller and ask if they have multiples available of each medal. >>

No, I didn't sell. I had a feeling what they might be up to. >>

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that. >>

What's the issue with that?

-D >>

'cause it's not anyone's business what a buyer does with their purchase.
It's especially not a seller's job to "police" the market-place.
That's what the issue with that is. >>

You object to him doing what he thinks is right? >>

What he "thinks" is "right" is "wrong."

lostincoins · January 30, 2014 4:50AM

The thoughts about selling to people and not policing sales is interesting. I used to sell cars 15 years ago and we would get certain clientele that we knew were from Chicago or the north side of milwaukee. We knew those cars would be used by people that were less than desirable but the dealerships position was " it is not our responsibility to do the policing". That being said a seller has a right to refuse any sale they want but that seller needs to be careful so as not to be discriminatory.

As for the OPs issue That medal is absolutely not one of the original castings, but were they ever reproduced with the artists approval?

AUandAG · January 30, 2014 4:52AM

Vette banned me for exposing a counterfeit half eagle they were selling. Clearly a fake 90cc.

One of our board members banned me for whatever.....I really do not know why. But I'm okay
with it. No big deal. Never bought from them, so it had to have something to do with a remark
I made here, I guess.

bob

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 4:54AM

<< Vette banned me for exposing a counterfeit half eagle they were selling. Clearly a fake 90cc.

One of our board members banned me for whatever.....I really do not know why. But I'm okay
with it. No big deal. Never bought from them, so it had to have something to do with a remark
I made here, I guess.

bob

>>

But you probably weren't banned because of your ethnicity or mailing address, correct?

AUandAG · January 30, 2014 5:06AM

<< 

<< Vette banned me for exposing a counterfeit half eagle they were selling. Clearly a fake 90cc.

One of our board members banned me for whatever.....I really do not know why. But I'm okay
with it. No big deal. Never bought from them, so it had to have something to do with a remark
I made here, I guess.

bob

>>

But you probably weren't banned because of your ethnicity, correct? >>

Ethnicity has what to do with this? I think the OP clearly had the right not to sell to a seller in a country
that clearly is at the forefront in the manufacture of counterfeits. I seriously doubt that "being Chinese"
had anything to do with it.
If we substitute S. Africa for China I think the results would be the same. Or Russia or Greece or Turkey.

"A few offers from Chinese addresses" is his statement. Doesn't mention ebay, or such. Just offers.
Perhaps the offers were from Chinese citizens, perhaps not. He does not know or mention what race
the buyers were.

I think you are paranoid and I think the OP certainly has every right not to sell to any buyer.

Be well,
bob

Swampboy · January 30, 2014 5:10AM

I'm sure dollarsandcents would eagerly open any email that comes his way from Nigeria.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 5:17AM

<< I'm sure dollarsandcents would eagerly open any email that comes his way from Nigeria. >>

I don't know anyone from Nigeria. I have never transacted any business with anyone from there.
So, I would have no reason to correspond with anyone from there.
Make sense?

Bless your heart for trying.

Mark · January 30, 2014 8:44AM

Hey dollars and cents, I get plenty of emails from people in Nigeria offering to do business with me. They look really promising; people have died with no heirs and bankers in Nigeria want help to extract the funds from Nigeria. Send me your email address and I'll forward them to you. I know that you will definitely do business with them because if you refused, it must be on account of their ethnicity.

Lakesammman · January 30, 2014 8:52AM

Reading this makes me nostalgic for the old Open Forum.

No wait - maybe not.

LindeDad · January 30, 2014 8:57AM

Heck I won't sell to any body not in the USA. And it's just because I don't want to do the form's.

D · January 30, 2014 9:05AM

<< 

<< I'm sure dollarsandcents would eagerly open any email that comes his way from Nigeria. >>

I don't know anyone from Nigeria. I have never transacted any business with anyone from there.
So, I would have no reason to correspond with anyone from there.
Make sense?

Bless your heart for trying. >>

Interesting post. Are you saying that you have or do not have a reason to correspond with someone from Nigeria? Are you pro-Nigeria? Sometimes sarcasm is difficult to extrapolate on these forums.

Will you please elaborate on the reasons you would or would not conduct business with a Nigerian?

-D

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 12:47PM

<< Hey dollars and cents, I get plenty of emails from people in Nigeria offering to do business with me. They look really promising; people have died with no heirs and bankers in Nigeria want help to extract the funds from Nigeria. Send me your email address and I'll forward them to you. I know that you will definitely do business with them because if you refused, it must be on account of their ethnicity. >>

If I called your post "an amazing example of logic and wit," I would be a total liar.

You're saying that I wouldbe a hypocrit for refusing to answer some anonymous unsolicited email from someone in Nigeria because of their ethnicity. No, I wouldn't respond to their email because I have no reason to respond to an anonymous unsolicited email.

The OP received an offer to buy medals from a potential buyer. The OP refused the sale because of the address of the seller out of fear the medals may be counterfeited by the buyer. If you cannot see the difference in these two scenarios, please don't cast a vote in the next election. Ok, champ?

Unknown · January 30, 2014 12:58PM

This content has been removed.

BryceM · January 30, 2014 12:59PM

Yup. I've about had my fill of this troll.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 1:03PM

<< Yup. I've about had my fill of this troll. >>

Me too!

D · January 30, 2014 1:25PM

Not important.

-D

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 1:38PM

D,

Why would seller of a gun, a coin, a car, etc, be responsible for the actions of a buyer?
If a seller is responsible for what a buyer may or may not do with the item sold, how long does that responsibility last? A year? 10 years? Forever?

lostincoins · January 30, 2014 1:43PM

coins do not counterfeit coins, people with coins and a used mint press and a great mill do.

D · January 30, 2014 1:45PM

<< D,

Why would seller of a gun, a coin, a car, etc, be responsible for the actions of a buyer?
If a seller is responsible for what a buyer may or may not do with the item sold, how long does that responsibility last? A year? 10 years? Forever? >>

I apologize for removing my post.

For those that did not see it, I posed a question about sellers responsibility.

Sellers are held accountable for what they're selling. Whether it's a gun, booze, or cigarettes.

If you're a big tobacco company you're held responsible. Even if lung cancer occurs years later.
If you built a house containing asbestos, you're held responsible for asbestosis that people may have contracted due to the home construction. You didn't even know that asbestos might've been bad.
If you're a bar and someone gets over-intoxicated and dies you're held responsible. This is in MANY states, even if they're of age and legal to be served.
If you're a gunshop and don't take correct steps in the sale of a gun you're held responsible.
If you sell someone a cellphone that doesn't work, the customer will hold the sales rep "accountable".
If you sell someone a home, or a car, and it explodes; you're held responsible. I mean hey, they didn't have to drive the car the way they did or use the house the way they did.

There are a lot of examples of sellers being held responsible even after the items are sold.

I cannot answer your question about the term of responsibility. I can only tell you that sellers are held responsible. In this case, the seller made what he thought to be an ethical decision in refusing the sale of his goods. It's within his rights to decline the sale. It's not defying any law, moral or ethical code.

-D

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 1:54PM

D,

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a right to decline a sale. I'm saying his motivation for doing so is wrong.
Sellers are not responsible for the actions of their buyers. (except for maybe the example of a patron being overserved in a bar, maybe. but even then, the negligence is only contributory.)
Further, there is a difference between a seller guaranteeing a product working correctly, and a seller being responsible for what a buyer does with their purchase. No?

D · January 30, 2014 1:58PM

Let me also add that in the case of cigarettes they were even thought to be beneficial.

In the case of an intoxicated patron due to over-service in a bar; they don't even need to die or kill someone. Property damage or harmful behavior can also become the bar and bartenders responsibility. Bars can lose liquor licenses and the employee serving the alcohol can lose their ability to work in a bar atmosphere for years.

They didn't force-feed the alcohol.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal.""

Who was held accountable? Who was "responsible"?

-D

D · January 30, 2014 2:01PM

<< D,

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a right to decline a sale. I'm saying his motivation for doing so is wrong.
Sellers are not responsible for the actions of their buyers. (except for maybe the example of a patron being over-served in a bar, maybe)
Further, there is a difference between a seller guaranteeing a product working correctly, and a seller being responsible for what a buyer does with their purchase. No? >>

Perhaps? Is it possible the new home-owner misused their house? Car? Then what?

At what point does the OPs motivation become relevant to you? What would be "good motivation" to decline a sale? If it takes being from Nigeria to ignore a sale, what sort of thought process was employed to decide?

In the case of a bar, or in the case of selling cigarettes it's absolutely true that minutes and even years later the seller is held responsible for having a product that was "as promised".

This is my last post in this thread so any questions posed are purely rhetorical.

Edited to add:

I feel the need to clarify: I'm not saying I believe cigarette sellers, businesses, bars, or sellers of firearms should always be held responsible for what the buyer does with their items after purchase. It's nearly impossible to be in control of what someone will do with anything after purchase. I'm stating that from a society, and liability standpoint that sellers are held responsible. In the specific case of a patron being over-intoxicated I'm in a state where it is not the bartenders responsibility to make sure the patrons are not over-served.

My point was/is: People "in-charge" are held responsible. If you're "in-charge" of a sale, country, or bar you may be held responsible. The OP made a decision to not make a sale, a decision he likely would not regret.

-D

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 2:06PM

<< Let me also add that in the case of cigarettes they were even thought to be beneficial.

In the case of an intoxicated patron due to over-service in a bar; they don't even need to die or kill someone. Property damage or harmful behavior can also become the bar and bartenders responsibility. Bars can lose liquor licenses and the employee serving the alcohol can lose their ability to work in a bar atmosphere for years.

They didn't force-feed the alcohol.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal.""

Who was held accountable?

-D >>

I'm going to have to call you out for violating Godwin's Law.
Have a good night.

Justlooking · January 30, 2014 4:14PM

Never sell a gun to a crazy person.

Otherwise, the money's all green. I'd sell to whoever wanted to pay the most.

Walkerguy21D · January 30, 2014 9:41PM

<< My point was/is: People "in-charge" are held responsible. If you're "in-charge" of a sale, country, or bar you may be held responsible. The OP made a decision to not make a sale, a decision he likely would not regret. >>

They are only 'may be held responsible' if some attorney somewhere wants to make a buck by filing a frivilous lawsuit and can 'prove'
their irresponsible client was incapable of controlling his own behavior. People die by gunfire in this country every day....who 'in charge' is being held responsible for this? The gun manufacturers? The gun retailers? I think not, it's the person who pulled the trigger that broke the law and has to pay the consequences.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 9:58PM

Exactly!

It's like, if I sold someone a Ferrari, why would I be responsible if/when the buyer gets a speeding ticket? Also, why should I be responsible for making sure the buyer doesn't speed?

Answers: I wouldn't be. and, I am not.

keets · January 30, 2014 9:59PM

So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that.

and again, a member misses "It" and helps us all. why is it that d&c seems to come down on the wrong side of things??

Patches · January 30, 2014 10:00PM

<< 

<< Let me also add that in the case of cigarettes they were even thought to be beneficial.

In the case of an intoxicated patron due to over-service in a bar; they don't even need to die or kill someone. Property damage or harmful behavior can also become the bar and bartenders responsibility. Bars can lose liquor licenses and the employee serving the alcohol can lose their ability to work in a bar atmosphere for years.

They didn't force-feed the alcohol.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal.""

Who was held accountable?

-D >>

I'm going to have to call you out for violating Godwin's Law.
Have a good night. >>

Whose alt are you...you join in June 2002, hardly post anything until December of last year, then all of a sudden freely start posting rude, rash remarks across many peoples threads.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 10:01PM

<< So, based on a "feeling" you had, you refused to sell something to someone?
I'm cool with that. Wait. No, I guess I'm not cool with that.

and again, a member misses "It" and helps us all. why is it that d&c seems to come down on the wrong side of things?? >>

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. What are you saying?

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 10:04PM

<< 

<< 

<< Let me also add that in the case of cigarettes they were even thought to be beneficial.

In the case of an intoxicated patron due to over-service in a bar; they don't even need to die or kill someone. Property damage or harmful behavior can also become the bar and bartenders responsibility. Bars can lose liquor licenses and the employee serving the alcohol can lose their ability to work in a bar atmosphere for years.

They didn't force-feed the alcohol.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal.""

Who was held accountable?

-D >>

I'm going to have to call you out for violating Godwin's Law.
Have a good night. >>

Whose alt are you...you join in June 2002, hardly post anything until December of last year, then all of a sudden freely start posting rude, rash remarks across many peoples threads. >>

Weird, isn't it?
PS - I'm not an alt.

Bless your heart!

keets · January 30, 2014 10:15PM

hey Patches, he's just trolling for fun, but you knew that. he seems to add nothing and always comes across as the contrarian on issues that seem clear to the rest of us, but is intentional and seems to indicate a troubled and/or agitated individual. not understanding the clear and simple fact that the OP avoided sending an item to a Country which is at the forefront of counterfeiting and fraudulent business practices can be only one of a few things-----extreme naivette, pure stupidity, a lack of any moral or ethical backbone or trolling.

JMHO of course.

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 10:27PM

<< hey Patches, he's just trolling for fun, but you knew that. he seems to add nothing and always comes across as the contrarian on issues that seem clear to the rest of us, but is intentional and seems to indicate a troubled and/or agitated individual. not understanding the clear and simple fact that the OP avoided sending an item to a Country which is at the forefront of counterfeiting and fraudulent business practices can be only one of a few things-----extreme naivette, pure stupidity, a lack of any moral or ethical backbone or trolling.

JMHO of course. >>

JYHO, of course!

keets · January 30, 2014 10:28PM

dollarsandcents · January 30, 2014 10:35PM

<<

>>

Oh no. I don't have comeback for that. I award you all 57 internet points for the day.
Congrats!

Fake Wiener Medals?

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