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Why Coin COLLECTORS Drink Part CCLXXVI

Went to a local B&M place that does both coins and stamps. Had eight coins worth about $6,000 PCGS Price Guide value and asked the guy if he was interested in making an offer on any of them.

Guy says he doesn't have the time to look at them right now but if I'll leave them with him he'll get back to me with a price "after the holidays". So I ask him what kind of paperwork do I need to fill out. He asks, "Paperwork?" I say, "The paperwork that says that these are my coins and that you're responsible for them while they're in your possession". He looks at me with a funny look on his face and say, "We don't really do that here."

So I shake my head, take my coins and leave. Oh, and the guy was busy reading a Sports Illustrated magazine while we were talking. Apparently that's why he was too busy to look at my eight coins and give me a price.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.

Comments

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    dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    You know if he declared BK while the coins were in his possession or died, without that little piece of paper you are SOL.

    I prefer coin shows where cash changes hands right on the spot
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 23,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You might have been able to see how they looked on ebay, and they would have been listed on every dealer network as his listings - if you had only left them with that guy. And if they weren't in plastic and traceable, good luck with that as well.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    BarberFanaticBarberFanatic Posts: 671 ✭✭✭✭
    Agreed. There was no chance I was leaving my coins with him but I was curious as to his business practices. I know he wouldn't offer me anything close to what the coins were worth, but sometimes it can be handy to do this to get a feel for a dealer and what his markup tends to be.
    My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
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    That's remarkably unprofessional.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He most likely wanted to show them to others to get an idea what they would pay before he made you an offer. Refusing to give you a receipt leads me to believe he is less than ethical.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i> He looks at me with a funny look on his face and say, "We don't really do that here." >>



    Yikes!
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Had eight coins worth about $6,000 PCGS Price Guide value and asked the guy if he was interested in making an offer on any of them.

    The context of what the coins were, exactly, may be relevant, as maybe they are more or less esoteric/liquid vs. less liquid/how rare or common the undergrades/how is the eye appeal, etc etc.

    Some extreme examples, we'll assume they're all in PCGS holders, would be a group of 8 pre-1808 US coins, versus a group of modern clad proofs, versus a group of foreign coins spanning 500 years of date.

    If he had been really interested in the items, he would have made time to look at them then and there, is all I'm saying

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭✭
    That's amazing, and certainly drink-worthy.
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    CoinflipCoinflip Posts: 849 ✭✭✭
    I recently contacted a dealer and asked if he could expedite a coin for the holidays as I wanted it for a gift. He says , well I can, make me an offer, you have one shot , the coins were sheet at $60, I said, lets do $80 for your time, hows that sound? He says sure, give me a call in 2 hours we will finalize... 2 hours later: He says , well, I need an extra 3% for fees or you can gift it. Im thinking , wow really? milking me for more? , I told him I was paying above market and compensating him for his time already. He says" Ok well thats ok, and hang up. REALLY?!
    SMILEFORSOMECHANGE LLC
    RAD#306

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,883 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll buy you a beer for that one. >>



    Me too. That guy has no business being in the business.
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
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    nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>He says" Ok well thats ok, and hang up. REALLY?! >>



    Yikes again!
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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 25,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He's the next "going out of business" sign in the neighborhood.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    I always encourage whomever I deal with to put everything in writing. At the least it makes things less confusing for everybody.

    No ethical dealer should have an aversion to a paper trail. Find someone else to deal with.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
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    SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "No ethical dealer should have an aversion to a paper trail."

    This
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from.

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>He says , well, I need an extra 3% for fees or you can gift it. >>

    A discount for cash is okay. But it's illegal to charge more for purchasing by credit card.
    Lance.
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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>He says , well, I need an extra 3% for fees or you can gift it. >>

    A discount for cash is okay. But it's illegal to charge more for purchasing by credit card.
    Lance. >>



    Never been a "Paypal "gift it" fan, though I know that it is quite popular.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL. >>



    Yep. I could handle the loss though. I have done many such deals on a handshake and have not been burned yet.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL. >>



    Yep. I could handle the loss though. I have done many such deals on a handshake and have not been burned yet. >>


    I could also easily handle the loss but why should I? Don't you insure your coins when you mail them? A simple receipt won't cost you or the dealer anything and an ethical dealer will have no problem giving you one. When one dealer gives another dealer some coins "on memo" to show to a fresh set of eyes, there is a receipt or memo exchanged for the coins like an IOU.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    DavideoDavideo Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>He says , well, I need an extra 3% for fees or you can gift it. >>

    A discount for cash is okay. But it's illegal to charge more for purchasing by credit card.
    Lance. >>



    Illegal is a bit strong of a word. It is against the credit card companies terms of service and could result in their dropping you as a client. Heck, even local governments sometimes add a 3% "service fee" or "processing fee" for credit card payments.

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, in defense of the B&M dealer, he probably doesn't know what to do with coins in that price range...... sort of like trying to sell a new Maserati to the guys at the local used car lot.

    Still, it's a curious attitude. I've always looked at buying new material as one of the two key components to running a coin business. image
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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL. >>



    Yep. I could handle the loss though. I have done many such deals on a handshake and have not been burned yet. >>


    I could also easily handle the loss but why should I? Don't you insure your coins when you mail them? A simple receipt won't cost you or the dealer anything and an ethical dealer will have no problem giving you one. When one dealer gives another dealer some coins "on memo" to show to a fresh set of eyes, there is a receipt or memo exchanged for the coins like an IOU. >>



    have you ever sent a consignment into an auction house. The paperwork does not come back to you until the coins are received. How would you handle that?
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    CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL. >>



    Yep. I could handle the loss though. I have done many such deals on a handshake and have not been burned yet. >>



    The operative word is "yet".
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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The operative word is "yet". >>



    Very true. I could also be rolled in the parking lot before I enter the B&M. Lots of risks in this world.

    No businessman can avoid risk, just assess and manage it.
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So what coins are they - denom - type - date - mm - grade?

    Its difficult for me to have an opinion if there is not a detailed description of your material? Perhaps he was broke or not interested in spending his money on your material (lack of perceived customer interest).

    No, I would not leave my coins with someone who would not even bother to look at them and make an offer. I would only leave my coins if they were sold and I had the cash in my hand.

    You say your coins have a market value of $6000 - on the Bay because I am looking to retail the material my maximum bid might be 70% of CU price guide and this is really on the high end for me. So if he had offered $4200, would you have been a seller?

    I have people offer me material at shows all the time but many of them are not for real in taking an offer that is half way decent enough to work for me. I have to wonder why they even bother shopping it around.

    Investor
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok, you win. I am having a drink.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
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    YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does that approach work on anybody?
    Who would leave their coins in that situation?
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>He says , well, I need an extra 3% for fees or you can gift it. >>

    A discount for cash is okay. But it's illegal to charge more for purchasing by credit card.
    Lance. >>



    Illegal is a bit strong of a word. It is against the credit card companies terms of service and could result in their dropping you as a client. Heck, even local governments sometimes add a 3% "service fee" or "processing fee" for credit card payments. >>

    Fair enough...I should have said it is illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas.
    Lance.
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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,503 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Went to a local B&M place that does both coins and stamps. Had eight coins worth about $6,000 PCGS Price Guide value and asked the guy if he was interested in making an offer on any of them.

    Guy says he doesn't have the time to look at them right now but if I'll leave them with him he'll get back to me with a price "after the holidays". So I ask him what kind of paperwork do I need to fill out. He asks, "Paperwork?" I say, "The paperwork that says that these are my coins and that you're responsible for them while they're in your possession". He looks at me with a funny look on his face and say, "We don't really do that here."

    So I shake my head, take my coins and leave. Oh, and the guy was busy reading a Sports Illustrated magazine while we were talking. Apparently that's why he was too busy to look at my eight coins and give me a price. >>

    Hey! SI Swinsuit Edition TRUMPS EVERYTHING!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Think of all the fun collectors and dealers could have with all the $$$ lost on coin anxiety.... >>



    Huh? Can you elaborate?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely not a place to do business. No way would I leave coins under those conditions. Cheers, RickO
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    DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A handshake is good enough for me (only with a dealer I know).

    But for a first time deal, paperwork is definitely required.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The dealers that I trust enough to send or leave $6000 worth of coins with.....I don't need any paper from. >>



    What if the dealer died or went bankrupt or, heaven forbid, get shot and killed during a robbery? You'd be SOL. >>



    Yep. I could handle the loss though. I have done many such deals on a handshake and have not been burned yet. >>


    I could also easily handle the loss but why should I? Don't you insure your coins when you mail them? A simple receipt won't cost you or the dealer anything and an ethical dealer will have no problem giving you one. When one dealer gives another dealer some coins "on memo" to show to a fresh set of eyes, there is a receipt or memo exchanged for the coins like an IOU. >>



    have you ever sent a consignment into an auction house. The paperwork does not come back to you until the coins are received. How would you handle that? >>



    There's a big difference between giving a group of expensive coins to a small one man coin shop and a major auction house like Heritage. If someone dies at Heritage the company will go on and your coins will be auctioned and you will be paid.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>There's a big difference between giving a group of expensive coins to a small one man coin shop and a major auction house like Heritage. If someone dies at Heritage the company will go on and your coins will be auctioned and you will be paid. >>



    ... a decade ago when I was entering the business, one of the large auction houses sent me my low 5 figure auction win before I had made the payment. I was shocked and surprised at the same time. They really did not know me well.

    I have bought and consigned many multiples of that first order with the same auction house. They will remain my go to source. Sometimes showing trust in business pays large dividends. Of course sometimes it fails.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At the 1978 ANA convention in Houston, when I was negotiating to go to work at ANACS, I happened to be at their table when somebody handed John Hunter a High Relief $20 with die characteristics he did not recognize. John asked me to go over to Fred Weinberg's table and ask if he could borrow some High Reliefs for comparison. I did, Fred handed me six pieces and just said "Bring them back when he's done with them." No paperwork, but Fred knew me.
    .
    That said, when I was working in coin shops and anybody wanted to submit something to a TPG, I always did a well-detailed receipt just to leave a paper trail, no matter how well I knew the person. It's just safer that way. Stuff happens. For the dealer to refuse to give a receipt is unconsionable.
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.

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