Since PayPal is about to steal $380 from me...anything I can do?

Dennis88 · October 12, 2013 8:28AM

Sold two coins on eBay early September...total sale value including postage was about $380. Buyer was in Germany and paid for registered postage. I shipped the coins registered with signature return. Together with express this is the only method that is fully trackable.

The tracking shows that the package arrived in Frankfurt on September 21st and it has gone dead since. I believe to be still being processed by German customs. The buyer opened a case on eBay earlier this week and PayPal immediately reversed a $800 withdrawal to my bank account that I had initiated earlier that same day. A $380 hold has been placed on my PayPal account.

In less than a week the buyer will escalate the case to eBay customer support and I will be out $380. Is there anything I can do at this point? I did open a case with USPS.

The thing that bothers me most is that this is completely out of my control...nothing I can do but watch PayPal take $380 of my money.

Sigh.

Dennis

bronzemat · October 12, 2013 8:31AM

Cant be of any help but over the past year ive had nothing but issues sending & receiving coins from germany. Its always been by customs. I seriously think some B.S. is going on there & wish something would get done about it.

AUandAG · October 12, 2013 8:31AM

If you followed Ebay protocol and filled out the customs forms, it might still be on the way. I just did a deal in
Austria and it took a full month to get through customs and delivered to the buyer (who then refused as
the VAT taxes were 40% of value). So, it may still be in process.

bob

Type2 · October 12, 2013 8:34AM

Maybe you can get the coins back if they did not deliver it. I would call the Po. What a slap in the face you ship with delivery com and get slaped like this just not right.

TomB · October 12, 2013 8:42AM

The USPS is out of the loop, I believe, if the coins have shown up already within the system in Germany.

ctf_error_coins · October 12, 2013 8:44AM

The same thing happened to me for $200 on coins I sent to Russia.

He open and won a paypal case I escalated.

The coins where in customs for two months.

The buyer finally received the coins and repaid me.

If you have an honest buyer, then there should be no problem.

amwldcoin · October 12, 2013 8:52AM

This is absolutely why I stop selling overseas. You have no recourse. Ebay sides with the buyer even if the buyer accepts responsibilty for loss in a message through the ebay system. Nothing outside the USA for me!

keyman64 · October 12, 2013 8:58AM

Ugh, I never ship outside of the US...some people have great success but I have heard of too many of these problems. Good luck!

SaorAlba · October 12, 2013 9:26AM

Germany used to be a reliable place to send coins, but as others have noted customs have been a problem lately. Russia has always been bad - I cannot even send my sister some baby clothes without them getting stolen in post.

PerryHall · October 12, 2013 9:31AM

<< This is absolutely why I stop selling overseas. You have no recourse. Ebay sides with the buyer even if the buyer accepts responsibilty for loss in a message through the ebay system. Nothing outside the USA for me! >>

Bingo! It's just not worth the headaches that you may encounter.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · October 12, 2013 9:52AM

I hope you don't get waxed. I say if a German wants one of my U.S. Coins then he can buy it from me on U.S. Soil. This is probably why the U.S. mint ships domestic only (I am assuming).

I'm pulling for you brother,
Erik

OPA · October 12, 2013 10:18AM

<< 

<< This is absolutely why I stop selling overseas. You have no recourse. Ebay sides with the buyer even if the buyer accepts responsibilty for loss in a message through the ebay system. Nothing outside the USA for me! >>

Bingo! It's just not worth the headaches that you may encounter. >>

I stopped selling & buying coins from overseas sellers several years ago and have not missed the "headache." In addition, the high postage to & from, along with the hassle of customs for overseas transactions and that includes Canada, is not worth it.

RYK · October 12, 2013 10:21AM

"Steal" is not exactly the word choice that is warranted under these circumstances.

mrpotatoheadd · October 12, 2013 10:28AM

<< I shipped the coins registered with signature return. Together with express this is the only method that is fully trackable. >>

If this was the pink signature return card that gets attached to the package, it won't help with a PayPal claim anyway as it's not viewable online.

<< The thing that bothers me most is that this is completely out of my control...nothing I can do but watch PayPal take $380 of my money. >>

This is why I went from shipping 8-10 international packages a week to none. eBay/PayPal have made it clear it's not in my best interest to ship outside the US.

Dennis88 · October 12, 2013 10:33AM

<< "Steal" is not exactly the word choice that is warranted under these circumstances. >>

I believe it is; the money is mine and they take it away. Seems like stealing to me.

Dennis88 · October 12, 2013 10:34AM

<< 

<< I shipped the coins registered with signature return. Together with express this is the only method that is fully trackable. >>

If this was the pink signature return card that gets attached to the package, it won't help with a PayPal claim anyway as it's not viewable online.

<< The thing that bothers me most is that this is completely out of my control...nothing I can do but watch PayPal take $380 of my money. >>

This is why I went from shipping 8-10 international packages a week to none. eBay/PayPal have made it clear it's not in my best interest to ship outside the US. >>

I've been told by Paypal that when you scan this and forward it to them in case of a problem they will accept it.

Lakesammman · October 12, 2013 10:37AM

Sorry to hear the news - I quit dealing with overseas bidders a few years ago.

lostincoins · October 12, 2013 10:52AM

If you filled out the proper forms for customs then when the USPS ship the package and it was received there should be a tracking/acceptance # for customs. You should be able to use the name and address of the client and the USPS info and contact customs in Germany to check where in process your delivery is. This will take you many hours so you have to determine if the time is worth the cost. I always get a verified phone # of any overseas shipment that I do. I ship vintage horns on a semi regular basis and have had to do this a couple of times. One time it was the customer refusing to contact customs on purpose to get an expensive rare horn from me and Customs told me ther contacted the client with no response.

mrpotatoheadd · October 12, 2013 10:55AM

<< I've been told by Paypal that when you scan this and forward it to them in case of a problem they will accept it. >>

Maybe they will, but their user agreement doesn't allow for it so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on it. PayPal stole $200+ from me on an international sale when they disallowed my provision of the buyer's claim of receipt of the item in my eBay feedback as proof of delivery that was viewable online.

lostincoins · October 12, 2013 11:29AM

sorry for got the rest you will need to provide all info to PayPal and ebay and give a very good description of the issue at hand and provide copies of any physical paperwork also. Argue the point some where that once delivered to customs that it is effect delivered because from the point of being accepted at customs it is then the clients responsibility to get their item from customs.

mrpotatoheadd · October 12, 2013 11:59AM

<< Argue the point some where that once delivered to customs that it is effect delivered because from the point of being accepted at customs it is then the clients responsibility to get their item from customs. >>

You could do that. Or you could go buy a Powerball ticket. The advantage of buying the Powerball ticket is that it will take up a lot less of your time and the odds of actually ending up with something are better.

derryb · October 12, 2013 12:03PM

If selling on ebay, it's not your money until you deliver the goods. International shipping increases your risk of being able to do so. Paypal cases tend to drag out, maybe time will be on your side if it's a matter of slow delivery. Even if delivered after reversal of funds to seller, you should have a good case to get your money back from paypal using your seller protection.

SamByrd · October 12, 2013 12:05PM

if not already done try also to track the item on the German postal site. More like then not nothing will show up but at times it will on the destination postal site.

RYK · October 12, 2013 12:15PM

<< 

<< "Steal" is not exactly the word choice that is warranted under these circumstances. >>

I believe it is; the money is mine and they take it away. Seems like stealing to me. >>

PayPal does not have your money. If they do temporarily, it will go to the buyer, or to you, eventually.

They are following the rules and TOS that you have agreed to abide. If you do not agree with their policy, you should not use PayPal.

Why on earth anyone would ship a package outside the U.S. on an eBay/PayPal transaction is beyond me.

MFH · October 12, 2013 12:33PM

Dennis, I once sent you a package while you were in Holland and it was a nightmare getting it to,you.
It got hung up in some Dutch Postal Authority bureau - after six to eight weeks - it was released to,you.

Because of that , I will never ship anything more than a post card over to Europe. I have bought from
Australian sellers with no problems - provided they took pay pal.

Good luck getting your money back; why don't you write the buyer in German and explain the situation
to him. He might take more kindly to someone who is conversant in his language.

pennyannie · October 12, 2013 1:16PM

Why on earth anyone would ship a package outside the U.S. on an eBay/PayPal transaction is beyond me. >>

+1
+1
+1
+1

+1

I have enough headaches just shipping in the US, no way i want to work on a migrain shipping outside the US. If someone does not want my stuff in the US i would just assume keep it as to ship out of the country.

Davideo · October 12, 2013 1:35PM

Shipping internationally with USPS is a crapshoot, because customs and the local postal service are often a big question mark. FedEx and UPS have much better success, however, is typically much more expensive and depending on the level of service and destination, they will tack on brokerage charges to the recipient. I ship a lot internationally and if I care if the item gets lost I don't ship USPS (except to Canada I think it is fine).

OPA · October 12, 2013 1:45PM

<< If selling on ebay, it's not your money until you deliver the goods. International shipping increases your risk of being able to do so. Paypal cases tend to drag out, maybe time will be on your side if it's a matter of slow delivery. Even if delivered after reversal of funds to seller, you should have a good case to get your money back from paypal using your seller protection. >>

Not only holds true with eBay, but for any online or physical sale...."It ain't your money until the buyer has the merchandise."

Since PayPal is about to steal $380 from me...anything I can do?

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