Another key-date Lincoln with a questionable clip

seanq · October 9, 2013 12:09AM

Long-time members may remember the adventures of a clipped 1922 Plain Lincoln cent that first appeared on eBay a couple of years ago. The coin looked genuine but after getting better pictures from the seller, the error was determined to be a post-Mint alteration.

Now today comes another eBay auction for a key date Lincoln with a very large clip, this 1914-D. This time I don't need better pictures to tell you that (IMHO) the coin is damaged and not a Mint error. It does appear that the coin itself is genuine, and bidders are going strong after the coin, which ends tonight (I assume this was a one-day auction, as I did not see this coin when I searched yesterday morning).

If any of my Forum friends were thinking about bidding on this coin (intending, I assume, to flip it to me for a profit at a later date

), please exercise extreme caution.

Sean Reynolds

FredWeinberg · October 9, 2013 12:12AM

Rude and Crude

ctf_error_coins · October 9, 2013 12:13AM

Stay away from that one.

ModCrewman · October 9, 2013 12:16AM

I'll wait for an expert to chime in before offering my opinion.

seanq · October 9, 2013 12:39AM

<< <i>I'll wait for an expert to chime in before offering my opinion.

>>

Sean Reynolds

FredWeinberg · October 9, 2013 12:59AM

<< <i>Rude and Crude >>

Steve27 · October 9, 2013 1:01AM

I think it was done to remove verdigris on that part of the coin.

Unknown · October 9, 2013 1:12AM

This content has been removed.

ModCrewman · October 9, 2013 2:32AM

Glad you took my previous post with the right tone Sean.

I actually came on to post my opinion that I thought it looked like a fairly decent effort at faking the clip, as the rims do appear to be rounded a little going into the clip; though the other devices don't appear to. Though the photos aren't really clear enough for a full assessment.

I withheld my opinion after seeing that Fred and ErrorsonCoins agreed with your expert opinion; and figured no point in embarrassing myself.

blacksmoke · October 9, 2013 2:40AM

Actually, if you look through his sold listings, you will see this guy is nothing more than a thief. He's been a member since July of this year and ninety percent of his sold listings are for counterfeits and has scammed Ebayers out of thousands of dollars. He should actually be reported to the authorities IMHO. He has multiples of the same exact items and nothing in his descriptions says anything about stock photos. Here's some beauties...Check his stuff out
sucker roll
sucker roll 2
[L=1942/1 Merc]http://www.ebay.com/itm/1942-1-D-Double-Date-Mercury-Dime-over-date-mercury-dime-10C-1942-41-/151119983547?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item232f73f3bb&nma=true&si=FjTY6slq37G0dWAwhQckHmYUwMk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557">This is a Peace Dollar??

AUandAG · October 9, 2013 2:41AM

Seller said he just bought it at the Milwaukee show. I gave him a heads up to this forum. Let's see if
he responds here.

bob

lostincoins · October 9, 2013 5:54AM

Hello,
I just got my account set up and I am asking that someone call in my listing of the 1914-D die clip so that it will be ended. I cancled all bids and then spent the last 58 minutes on the phone with ebay for them to tell me they will not end the listing even though there is issues with the coins authenticity I would rather take the negative hit on my account than to have someone bid on this coin and have it not be a real die clip. Could someone also tell me what the blakeslee effect is so I know what I am talking about when I talk to the dealer about this and for myself so I know what to look for.

AUandAG · October 9, 2013 6:02AM

Glad to see you showing up....I sent an email on the Blakeslee effect. Also reported. Doubt that there
is enough time to kill it though.

bob

lostincoins · October 9, 2013 6:08AM

Than you for your help Bob it is much appreciated.

seanq · October 9, 2013 7:06AM

<< <i>Hello,
I just got my account set up and I am asking that someone call in my listing of the 1914-D die clip so that it will be ended. I cancled all bids and then spent the last 58 minutes on the phone with ebay for them to tell me they will not end the listing even though there is issues with the coins authenticity I would rather take the negative hit on my account than to have someone bid on this coin and have it not be a real die clip. Could someone also tell me what the blakeslee effect is so I know what I am talking about when I talk to the dealer about this and for myself so I know what to look for. >>

First of all, welcome aboard. I was the person to bring this auction to the attention of the board, so let me try and answer your questions.

There are three ways I usually authenticate a clipped planchet. The first is by looking for signs of metal flow at the edges of the clip. Under striking pressure, the planchet metal will flow between the dies, and the rim at either edge will taper into the clipped area, like this:

The second thing to look for is the Blakesley Effect. Before a planchet is struck, it is rolled through an upsetting mill, which compresses the planchet and begins forming the rim. On a clipped coin, the missing metal means there is a lack of pressure in the upsetting mill, so the rim directly opposite the clip can be weakly formed. A very obvious example is shown below (the 1912-S), followed by a more subtle one (the 1933-D). This is not always visible on every clip, especially well worn coins, but it is an excellent diagnostic when present:

Strong Blakesley effect:

Weak Blakesley effect (note the lack of a wire rim directly opposite the clip):

Finally, on curved clips, if you look at the inside of the clipped edge, you should see a combination of surfaces, part smooth and part more ragged, running parallel to the faces of the coin. When the planchet is cut out of the copper sheet, the punch cuts through the metal until it gets so thin it fails and tears. This all happens inthe blink of an eye, but the evidence is saved on the edge of the coin. I don't have a great picture of this, the one below is the best I have right now:

Now here is what you don't want to see, a uniform edge that shows signs of being ground off:

I've been collecting error coins for 30 years, specializing in clips for almost 25, so feel free to ask any questions you have about this coin or any others. There are some other "heavy hitters" in the hobby who will also drop by to give their input. Again, welcome aboard and enjoy your stay.

Sean Reynolds

ricko · October 9, 2013 8:14AM

Good information in this thread....should help a lot of collectors.... Cheers, RickO

lostincoins · October 9, 2013 9:16AM

That is very helpfull thanks alot. Now when I am at a show or shop I will know what to look for. I listed another coin a 1955 and now I can see exactly what you said. It has that weekness across from the clip, cool!! I learned something

Another key-date Lincoln with a questionable clip

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