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Auctioneer liability for selling counterfeit coins?

Sorry if this has been asked before.

I was watching a case this morning wherein the Plaintiff (unrepresented) filed suit against the auctioneer for selling him counterfeit coins.

The defense lawyer was arguing the suit should have been brought against the county, not the auctioneer. In any event, I had to leave for a conference, got in a fight, and missed the outcome.

Comments

  • phnataccphnatacc Posts: 367 ✭✭


    << <i>In any event, I had to leave for a conference, got in a fight, and missed the outcome. >>



    There has to be a better story here than auctioneer liability...

    image
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    Yeh, the auction house/company should be liable.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most garden variety auctioneers say "You are seeing what you are buying, everything is sold "AS IS" , no returns.", or something to that effect. They do not have the knowledge to recognize a fake coin in many instances. In this case I would say that the auctioneer is not responsible since they are only an agent.(Yes, I know all about the ebay arguement). However if they sell fake coins to my understanding they still have to take them back and get the money back from the consigner.
    On the other hand a major auction house that specializes in coins, such as Heritage, would probably be liable. I am not a lawyer and these are my opinions only and may or may not be fact.


    Bob
    image
  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    I don't believe title can pass on counterfeit items, so the auction house would have to take the coins back and then try to recover from the consignor.
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭
    This was one of the yearly county auctions for property seized by the sheriff's department. They use the same auction outfit every year.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you win the fight??????? Inquiring minds want to know... Cheers, RickO
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭
    No, it was 2 on 1. I think I coulda took the little guy, he resembled Rocky, but Bullwinkle was a huge guy maybe 390lbs.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't believe title can pass on counterfeit items, so the auction house would have to take the coins back and then try to recover from the consignor. >>

    this makes better sense.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>In any event, I had to leave for a conference, got in a fight, and missed the outcome. >>



    There has to be a better story here than auctioneer liability...

    image >>



    i have no idea why you added that image as it is a far stretch to connect to the context of this thread but it is fuuuuuunnnnnyyyyyy!

    the only time i bet sheldon and leonard were in a physical confrontation where they actually tried to harm someone physically. image
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The auctioneer is liable for the coin, as he was the one who sold the coin. Whenever I was an auctioneer, I sold a beautiful 1955 DD Lincoln cent. It looked good, and all the dealers thought the coin was good. The dealer who bought the coin sent it to ANACS where it came back as lasered. I refunded the dealer's money, but was out the full price since it came from an estate and the estate was done. If the estate hadn't been settled, I could have asked for them to return the money, but it was my responsibility to ensure I sold authentic coins. Lesson learned: all high dollar coins had to be certified after that.
    Fall National Battlefield Coin Show is September 11-12, 2025 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I'm surprised auctioneers can't use the ebay defence... "I'm only a venue!"

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    The auctioneer's liability would lie in an area of his contract with the seller, and how the item was represented in the auction. At the very least, it's proper to make the auctioneer a party to the action barring any other information.

    An auctioneer's oral representation at sale is binding and would at least create a secondary liability; however, if the auctioneer were but a contractual agent of the seller with an indemnity clause, the primary liability would lie with the owner/seller.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    Then again, if the buyer was a professional and viewed the lots prior to auction, there may be no seller liability.

    Also, some states allow a reasonable time limit on claims of authenticity. You may be s.o.l. if you are not able to authenticate an item in the allotted time frame.

    The court would have to sort these issues.
  • s4nys4ny Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭
    I think it depends on how the lot is described. If it is described as
    "1880 Silver Dollar" and it is counterfeit, it is not as described.

    To take another example suppose an auction is for a
    "Gold Rolex Day/Date Watch." If it is not a real Rolex
    but a Chinatown "replica" the auctioneer would lose any
    suit.

    If it is sold as just a "gold colored watch" the auctioneer
    is likely not liable.

    "Not responsible for dry cleaning left for more than 60 days."
    That may be the policy, but it is not the law.
  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I was watching a case this morning wherein the Plaintiff (unrepresented) filed suit against the auctioneer for selling him counterfeit coins.

    The defense lawyer was arguing the suit should have been brought against the county, not the auctioneer. >>



    Laws vary from State to State.

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • habaracahabaraca Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, lets hear more about the fight..
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i have no idea why you added that image as it is a far stretch to connect to the context of this thread but it is fuuuuuunnnnnyyyyyy!
    . >>



    unless the image of sheldon is meant to represent that you are thinking really hard about what the other reason(s) could possibly be image
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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