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You are building a complete set of...Can you do this working with one dealer?
TahoeDale
Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
Many of us are striving to complete a series-me, early and capped bust halves.
Over the last 12 years, I have found the dates for my set in various ways-several dealers,
auctions, other collectors, online websites, want lists, unsolicited offers from many.
Could I have accomplished my goals working with only one dealer?
I wish I could. It would have been a lot less work and stress. But I seriously doubt it.
Over the last 12 years, I have found the dates for my set in various ways-several dealers,
auctions, other collectors, online websites, want lists, unsolicited offers from many.
Could I have accomplished my goals working with only one dealer?
I wish I could. It would have been a lot less work and stress. But I seriously doubt it.
TahoeDale
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I am not a set builder, but there are several dates in specific series that I am seeking, and I have had to obtain them from various sources. I even had the chance of getting one coin from a dealer who does not even deal in that series, but because he knew I did, he took it in on a large deal, and promptly contacted me
With the many venues that are accessible to collectors now there is no need to try and
use one dealer and I believe that dealers understand that.
On a basic, non-variety common stuff type of set without a lot of parameters, you could rely on one dealer for the entire set but unless the dealer has significant monetary motivation I have a feeling there will be a bit to be desired in most cases.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
There are any number of very popular sets that can be done with one dealer. Many can be done in a relatively short amount of time, with budget being the main factor, not any difficulty in finding coins. The more popular sets tend to be what 95% of collectors work on. Some will place self-imposed quality or value constraints to make the hunt more difficult, but that is a separate issue.
The 5% at the top of end of difficulty and price will need to be more resourceful. Like I have often written, this forum tends to be dominated by ten-percenters, top 10% in income, top 10% in net worth, because that is the primary market for PCGS graded coins. The rest of the world still goes on, and most of the rest of the world doesn't collect like many on the forum do.
<< <i> It would have been a lot less work and stress. >>
Isn't a hobby supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable?
I feel a lot more to do with the collectors level of patience once the goal has been established for the dealer to find the right coins.
It would seem that a national dealer would have the connections( with a large checkbook) that could accomplish a big result for a serious collector.
But I really don't think the best connections, only, is enough.
If I were to list the dealers who have supplied me with the halves mentioned above, it would run into the 20's. And that does not
include the coins I have bought personally at auctions,( all of the ones presently in business, along with 3 no longer viable.)
But, if I had a billion dollars or more, and wanted to remain out of the public scene, that source( one big dealer) might be the best way to collect the best coins, over a long period of time.
How many collectors fit that picture?
<< <i>TDN,
It would seem that a national dealer would have the connections( with a large checkbook) that could accomplish a big result for a serious collector.
But I really don't think the best connections, only, is enough.
If I were to list the dealers who have supplied me with the halves mentioned above, it would run into the 20's. And that does not
include the coins I have bought personally at auctions,( all of the ones presently in business, along with 3 no longer viable.)
But, if I had a billion dollars or more, and wanted to remain out of the public scene, that source( one big dealer) might be the best way to collect the best coins, over a long period of time.
How many collectors fit that picture? >>
I think TDN already made statements that showed a COMPLETE set by just using one dealer is not the ideal situation as he himself admitted to finding three coins.
If you are open to delays, sometimes significant, open to diminished quality or open to paying more than you should then it is likely possible but you have to understand that a dealer's interests are not going to be 100% in line with yours...unless there is significant monetary motivation, significant friendship or significant business partnerships etc involved...something like that.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
<< <i>Many of us are striving to complete a series-me, early and capped bust halves.
Over the last 12 years, I have found the dates for my set in various ways-several dealers,
auctions, other collectors, online websites, want lists, unsolicited offers from many.
Could I have accomplished my goals working with only one dealer?
I wish I could. It would have been a lot less work and stress. But I seriously doubt it. >>
Part of the deal in collecting is the chase which is 95% of the fun. Otherwise it becomes a matter of are you collecting or is the dealer collecting for you and you become nothing more than a checkwriter. Also, why pay a dealer to buy from another dealer when you can get it from the same place? Think of all the fun you'd miss going to shows, etc. unless you look at them mostly as a social event. You probably can get all of your stuff from one dealer, but there is really no need to.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Sure, you can, as in it's "possible". But WHY would you? Seems very limiting, and what's the upside?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
US Coins, Larry Whitlow, Mike Printz, David Lawrence, John Feigenbaum, Harry Laibstain, Don Willis, Sheridan Downey, Angel Dees, Pinnacle Rarities, Todd Imhof , Mark Feld, Kevin Lipton, Sil DiGenova, David Akers, Rick Sears,
John Agre .Dick Osborn, Alpine Numismatics, Albanese Rare Coins/Sabel Rarities, Eye Appealing Coins, David Weygant, Larry Shepherd, Chris Napolitano, Doug Winter, Paul Nugget, Bob Higgins, Don Ketterling, Bill Shamhart, Brian Wagner, David Hall RC, Rare Coins of New Hampshire( Jon and Warren),
Joe O'Connor, and last but not least, Legends.. I almost forgot the most colorful---Bobby Hughes!
I have really enjoyed meeting all, and dealing with most.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>Okay, let me list the really honest and knowledgeable dealers who have assisted me over the last 22 years.
US Coins, Larry Whitlow, Mike Printz, David Lawrence, John Feigenbaum, Harry Laibstain, Don Willis, Sheridan Downey, Angel Dees, Pinnacle Rarities, Todd Imhof , Mark Feld, Kevin Lipton, Sil DiGenova, David Akers, Rick Sears,
John Agre .Dick Osborn, Alpine Numismatics, Albanese Rare Coins/Sabel Rarities, Eye Appealing Coins, David Weygant, Larry Shepherd, Chris Napolitano, Doug Winter, Paul Nugget, Bob Higgins, Don Ketterling, Bill Shamhart, Brian Wagner, David Hall RC, Rare Coins of New Hampshire( Jon and Warren),
Joe O'Connor, and last but not least, Legends.. I almost forgot the most colorful---Bobby Hughes!
I have really enjoyed meeting all, and dealing with most. >>
That is quite a list! I bet it has made the building of your collection fun and exciting. I bet you have made some friends from the effort as well. How many auction houses have you used in building your collection, that might be good to mention as well.
I have used the following auction sources: Bowers & Merena(at the time), Stacks Bowers, Heritage, Teletrade, and eBay(if you count them as an auction format source).
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
<< <i>I am sure you could have with diminished quality. >>
This. I can provide a specific example, but I won't go there.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
What you need is a dealer with exacting quality standards who just looooves to build sets. They are out there.
may have paid a higher price than necessary for some of the pieces, when it was time to sell in 1980, I was
astonished by the amount it sold for.
The second was a date set of large cents, using a single copper specialist. It wasn't that I didn't look at the
coins in other dealer's inventories -- I just kept finding exactly what I was looking for with the same dealer.
When I decided to sell the set, I contacted the dealer, who was delighted to purchase the entire set. He
had buyers for about 80% of the coins in my set, and knew the quality he would encounter, so it was an easy
transaction.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It depends on the series, the personality and social skills of the collector, the patience of the collector, the personality and niche of the dealer, the amount of money involved, the computer-savvy ness of the collector, the knowledge of the collector, the grading skills of the collector, etc.
It certainly can be done, and in some circumstances, it might be the best way. For example, when I decided to do a mini-type set of CAR gold, I enlisted MrEureka to help and have not purchased these coins from any other dealer. While assembling my Dahlonega half eagle set a while back, I purchased almost all of the coins from two dealers (Doug Winter and Al Adams). Assembling my 18 coin 1900-1908 $5 set, I purchased coins from 12 different sources.
It depends.
There are benefits to developing a strong working relationship with a specialist dealer, as the examples IrishMikey gave illustrate.
No need to limit yourself.
But when a specialist dealer gets to know you, he (or she) can help you find the coins you need. And he is working for you. If you work with several dealers, particularly if they all specialize in the same niche, they could be working (e.g. bidding) against each other on the same coin, for you.
I did not think of the smaller number of coins that can make a "complete set", and for which I agree that one knowledgeable dealer could be the best choice. Especially
when that dealer knows the area, and his customer's wants.
But when the set involves over 100 coins( or a lot more with early copper and bust half varieties), then No.
<< <i>Robert,
I did not think of the smaller number of coins that can make a "complete set", and for which I agree that one knowledgeable dealer could be the best choice. Especially
when that dealer knows the area, and his customer's wants.
But when the set involves over 100 coins( or a lot more with early copper and bust half varieties), then No. >>
I would agree that the more coins that are necessary to complete the goal, the more sources for those coins will likely to be required...or at least beneficial. Perhaps that is self-evident.
Of course, Bob Simpson has amassed quite a number of sets using, as far as we can tell, one dealer (Legend). Many of these sets were acquired whole and the way in which these acquisitions were made may not be relevant to the vast majority of collectors.
TahoeDale showed us that he has done just that, shown himself to a rather large number of the best dealers around.
Those of us collecting AU coins are not able to get the same treatment, because the dealers of AU coins know they have many potential buyers. For example, look at Sheridan Downey's followers, serious collectors of Bust Half Dollars. Whenever Sheridan get a desirable Bust Half Dollar in AU, he simply sets the price, and the crowd decides who will pay up first.
Obviously, those collecting coins in lower price ranges, have little chance of a dealer who will contact them, when he finds coins for their collections.
Hate to say it, but I believe the auction houses are the place to be these days. Most dealers are hard pressed to stay in business against the auction houses. These past years, nearly all my coin purchases have been through auctions.
<< <i>It happens often enough
What you need is a dealer with exacting quality standards who just looooves to build sets. They are out there. >>
TDN, I have to say congrats to Legend and that collector....BUT the story really made me laugh...pretty hard.
This quote was over the top... "The owner of this collection is not a gazillionare, he is a hard working businessman." Sure maybe not a gazillionaire, just a MILLIONAIRE a few times over, especially if he is spending over a million on one coin!
This is a prime example of the 1%ers and then everyone else. The "everyone else" would involve most of the people on this forum who must rely on multiple sources to build a complete set.
So yes, you are correct...it seems to "happen often enough" for the 1%ers.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Words with the suffix "-illion", most commonly zillion,[8] gazillion,[9] bajillion,[10] and jillion[11] and are often used as fictitious names for an unspecified, large number by analogy to names of large numbers such as million, billion and trillion. Their size is dependent upon the context, but can typically be considered large enough to be unfathomable.
These terms are often used as hyperbole or for comic effect, or in loose, unconfined conversation to present an un-guessably large number. Since these are undefined, they have no mathematical validity and no accepted order, since none is necessarily larger or smaller than any of the others.
The "-illion" concept is so well established that it is the basis of a joke, in which a speaker misunderstands the word Brazilian (being from the nation of Brazil) as an enormous number called "brazillion".[12]
Many similar words are used, such as bazillion,[13] dillion,[14] fantillion,[15] gadzillion,[16] gagillion,[17] gajillion,[18] godzillion,[19] grillion,[20] hojillion,[21] kabillion,[22] kajillion,[23] katrillion,[24] killion,[14] robillion,[25] skillion,[26] squillion,[8] and umptillion.[27] Also, the suffix can be replaced with "-illionaire" to describe wealthy people.
These words can be transformed into ordinal numbers or fractions by the usual pattern of appending the suffix -th, e.g., "I asked her for the zillionth time."
-source: Wikipedia
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>Robert,
I did not think of the smaller number of coins that can make a "complete set", and for which I agree that one knowledgeable dealer could be the best choice. Especially
when that dealer knows the area, and his customer's wants.
But when the set involves over 100 coins( or a lot more with early copper and bust half varieties), then No. >>
Again, the original poster is focusing on the top 5% sets in terms of difficulty and price, which is not where the vast majority collect. The three most common numismatic sets are almost certainly: Lincoln cents, Morgan dollars, and Dansco 7070 type sets or similar (I'm excluding state quarters and modern silver eagles). While Morgans and 7070 type sets may not be 100+ coins, they are substantial, and can be worthy numismatic projects. Each set could be thrown together, or carefully assembled. There are likely dozens of well stocked dealers where a collector could do one-stop shopping and complete one of these popular sets in a relatively short time period. Yes, that collector will pay tend to pay a bit more, tend to take a bit of a hit on quality, and take a bit more time than if they spread out to say five dealers. There are many more sets where this is possible, and not all of them are shorter sets.
Eric
<< <i>You know how most likely you get to be a 1%er? By thinking like one.... >>
Have to disagree with you on that, Bruce.
1) To be a 1%er involves being a very bright, hardworking, persistent, individual who during important times, is at the right place at the right time.
2) Or, you can inherit it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>You know how most likely you get to be a 1%er? By thinking like one.... >>
Have to disagree with you on that, Bruce.
1) To be a 1%er involves being a very bright, hardworking, persistent, individual who during important times, is at the right place at the right time, recognizes it and is prepared.
2) Or, you can inherit it. >>
Eric
I liked your list of dealers. I counted up and have purchased from twelve of the people/dealers named. Having said that, now that Mark Feld works at Heritage, I buy most of my coins from two dealers and one of them represents me at auctions. Works well for me but i still like to get emails from other dealers and look at their websites. It's important to keep up on what's out there yourself and do your own homework. It's also half of the fun.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
In completeting a set, I want coins which fit my budget, price goals, and are attractive for the grade I am seeking. Could care less if if they come from one source or many. You should shop around for material for your collection. The dealer trying to sell you on how everything should come from him (or one source, usually one of his buddies) makes me laugh - its a sales pitch! It reminds me of a story a friend in the coin club told everyone how a high priced shop dealer told him "sir you would be lost at a coin show, its better you just come here (to his shop)."
If your a big spender there is nothing like going to a big show like FUN or Long Beach and spending a few days. That you have to buy it all from one dealer is nonsense.