As an ANA Life Member, I am struck by how much energy has been expended in this thread by non-members, in discussing the interworkings of an organization to which they don't even belong. Hopefully, they are open to the possibility of joining in the future, if their concerns are addressed. If not, I don't know why they're bothering to post comments, or why ANA members should care what they think.
<< <i>As for the $500,000 or so just sitting around for YN programs, how about expanding your educational programs to include online courses, more and better corresponence courses, perhaps even a "degree" in Numismatics? >>
The first problem is that the money designated for YN programs can only be spent on YN programs... not general educational programs.
As for expanding our offerings, significantly more online content is planned -- but requires our website upgrade to take place first. Regarding a "degree in Numismatics", are you familiar with our existing Numismatic Diploma program?
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Greg, I know the Bylaws allow donations to be designated for specific purposes. Why can't the Bylaws be changed as it relates to YN donations. If the ANA can fund the level of YN activities thru their annual auction and summer seminar activities, why not eliminate the donations to YN category for donations and establish other donation categories which are more needed. Seems like the board could do that with a simple vote. OR are the board members worried that by doing such an elimination certain members will drop out because their pet reason for giving a donation is to give it for YN's. Steve
<< <i>Greg, I know the Bylaws allow donations to be designated for specific purposes. Why can't the Bylaws be changed as it relates to YN donations. If the ANA can fund the level of YN activities thru their annual auction and summer seminar activities, why not eliminate the donations to YN category for donations and establish other donation categories which are more needed. Seems like the board could do that with a simple vote. OR are the board members worried that by doing such an elimination certain members will drop out because their pet reason for giving a donation is to give it for YN's. Steve >>
There are other categories for donations -- quite a few, in fact. Like was stated earlier, why would any association turn down a donation for a specific program -- even if it was already well-funded.
If the purpose of the YN Summer Seminar Auctions were changed (which are the largest fund-raiser for YN programs) to say... adult scholarships... do you think people would pay $1000 for a bottle of water? Over and above that, do you think the YNs would be motivated to run an auction which was to send adults to Summer Seminar? Or build a new website?
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I notice how you avoided answering any of my questions, maybe it is just that how the Board of Governors spend the association’s money is part of the “secret squirrel” stuff you do without any transparency. >>
Perhaps I'm a little tired of trying to answer questions posed by people who don't seem to have a clue about what they are referring to? Such as accusing someone who has been General Counsel for six months being on a "gravy train" or bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
There is transparency on what money is being spent on. The ANA, as a 501(c)3 files an annual Form 990 report to the IRS. Our books are audited by a CPA. And quarterly budget updates are posted on the website. A link for those who may care.
Realize legal fees are -- to a good extent -- outside of our control. Chris Cipoletti caused several years of high legal expense by challenging his dismissal. In the end, the ANA won and received a settlement from him. Likewise, we are having to defend a lawsuit by Larry Shepherd which we are confident we will win.
Looking over financial reports (quickly) from 2008... the ANA spent over $500,000 in legal fees in Fiscal years 2008 & 2009. In FY 2010, that dropped to $270,000. In FY 2011, it was about $425,000. In the past two years, we've spent well under $200k/year. Significant, yes... necessary, yes. Any credit to the current board for bringing them down? Of course not...
Greg >>
I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside.
I considered being a life member in the 90's. At the time the interest on the cost of a life membership more than paid the yearly membeship fee! I almost see the ANA as a parasite to feed who...I don't know!
<< <i>I also found it interesting that the YN program is well funded yet other areas are lacking. That makes me wonder a)if the YN program is not being pursued to its full potential or b) if the YN program is simply overfunded in relationship to the interest therein. Virtually any time I hear the words "ANA" and "donation" in the same sentence, it's usually the YN program that's being discussed- so I suppose I could see where this could be the case.
It also makes me wonder if there are some other areas that could be scaled back or cut if there is waning (or no) interest in them. In other words, are they funding the right things? >>
When a donation is made to the ANA, the donor can request that it be targeted for a specific purpose (YNs, Bob Leece Memorial Fund, Library, etc.) or not. If the money is targeted for a specific purpose, the ANA must honor those wishes. Donating to support YNs is "sexy"... donating for, say adult Summer Seminar scholarships, is not.
As a result, YN activities can be mostly, if not completely, funded by the annual donations received for that purpose. This allows current revenues (dues, auction revenues, convention revenues) to be used for non-YN activities, similar to a way that most state lotteries say 100% of profits go to education -- true, except that means less general revenue will go to support education.
Believe it or not, the ANA runs a very lean ship. When you consider we have a $6 million / year budget which includes about 34 full time employees and must cover the costs of hosting two annual conventions, Summer Seminar and publishing a monthly magazine there's not a lot of fat on the bone.
What areas would members like to see cut back? Library? Museum? The Numismatist? Summer Seminar? Conventions? Our website.. oh wait, we don't put enough money into that already!
The ANA needs to improve it's fundraising -- we must provide potential donors with the belief their money would be used wisely, we need to provide concrete proof of what comes from those donations and we must make it easy to give. All three are being worked on today.
Greg >>
Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful!
<< <i>I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside. >>
As I've said before, the majority of ANA legal fees from 2007 through 2010 were from Chris Cipoletti's litigation which ended up being ruled in favor of the ANA with a cash settlement to the ANA. Are you saying we should not have defended ourselves and just given Cipoletti what he wanted?
As for membership dues and benefits... dues still do not cover the cost of membership, but are subsidized by other revenues the ANA receives. What benefits have "gone buy (sic} the wayside"?
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful! >>
Overall, ANA conventions are profitable. My point was that you may look at the $6 million budget and go "WOW, that's a lot of money when dealers are charged as much as they are for tables!"
But if you look into the ANA financial reports, you'll see that the costs of running a convention are significant - looking through the ANA Budget for 2012-2013, direct costs for the conventions are in excess of $800,000. These are expenses like convention halls, general services contractors, banquet and convention advertising. But that also does NOT count the cost of staff salaries and benefits working on conventions as well as travel costs.
That adds up to over $1 million a year, but those are pass-through expenditures... it's revenue to the ANA but goes right back out on the expense side, so not something which can be "trimming the fat".
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside. >>
As I've said before, the majority of ANA legal fees from 2007 through 2010 were from Chris Cipoletti's litigation which ended up being ruled in favor of the ANA with a cash settlement to the ANA. Are you saying we should not have defended ourselves and just given Cipoletti what he wanted?
As for membership dues and benefits... dues still do not cover the cost of membership, but are subsidized by other revenues the ANA receives. What benefits have "gone buy (sic} the wayside"?
Greg >>
In your own defense...shouldn't the cash settlement to the ANA offset the legal expenses...or is that included in the final yearly legal costs?
I guess the additional cost for a hard copy of the Numismatist was my gripe. Wonder what the difference between paying for website tech,maintainance,etc. vrs. the cost of a hard copy are.
<< <i>Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful! >>
Overall, ANA conventions are profitable. My point was that you may look at the $6 million budget and go "WOW, that's a lot of money when dealers are charged as much as they are for tables!"
But if you look into the ANA financial reports, you'll see that the costs of running a convention are significant - looking through the ANA Budget for 2012-2013, direct costs for the conventions are in excess of $800,000. These are expenses like convention halls, general services contractors, banquet and convention advertising. But that also does NOT count the cost of staff salaries and benefits working on conventions as well as travel costs.
That adds up to over $1 million a year, but those are pass-through expenditures... it's revenue to the ANA but goes right back out on the expense side, so not something which can be "trimming the fat".
Greg >>
If their is a million dollars there I would wager there is a bit of fat that could be trimmed! The debate that's raging around the country about CEO's compensation and perks comes to mind!
<< <i>In your own defense...shouldn't the cash settlement to the ANA offset the legal expenses...or is that included in the final yearly legal costs? >>
I was simply looking at the "Expense" side of the register. The settlement does come in, but on the "Revenue" side of the register.
<< <i>I guess the additional cost for a hard copy of the Numismatist was my gripe. Wonder what the difference between paying for website tech,maintainance,etc. vrs. the cost of a hard copy are. >>
The online Numismatist is not hosted by the ANA but rather by our publisher. The costs -- printing and mailing -- of the paper edition are far more than the online version.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>If their is a million dollars there I would wager there is a bit of fat that could be trimmed! The debate that's raging around the country about CEO's compensation and perks comes to mind! >>
When the majority of that cost is for outside vendors where there are not multiple vendors to choose from (if we are having a convention in Atlanta, like next year's National Money Show, there are not multiple convention centers bidding for our business), the majority of costs are pass-through... we get the revenue for the bourse tables but they go to pay the convention center, the convention center decorators, the hotel where the banquet is held, etc. We work to keep costs down but there are not a lot of choices in those businesses.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I voted for Laura and Greg so with all due respect, I don 't buy TDN's mandate to clean house argument. I don't mind her rattling a few cages, BUT the reason I voted for Laura is her stand on consumer protection. My humble piece of advice to Laura is don't take your eye off that ball, which is far more important than petty political bickering. I am an occasional and minor customer of Legend but they have always treated me great, which is one reason I voted for Laura. However, the main reason I voted for her was her willingness to bring a focus on consumer protection to the ANA. In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Whether you agree with him or not, you have got to give Greg Lyon a ton of credit for interacting to the degree he has. I have come close to needing an anxiety pill just reading through this thread, albeit it was very necessary.
<< <i>As an ANA Life Member, I am struck by how much energy has been expended in this thread by non-members, in discussing the interworkings of an organization to which they don't even belong. Hopefully, they are open to the possibility of joining in the future, if their concerns are addressed. If not, I don't know why they're bothering to post comments, or why ANA members should care what they think. >>
As an ANA member myself, I care in that all "non-members" are potential members. Having their opinions expressed allows members to pass those opinions on up.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation? >>
A few years ago, at the height of concern about doctored coins in TPG holders, there was a thread on this forum (either started by Laura or the OP was specifically discussing one of her blog entries, don't remember which) discussing what could be done--or what Laura could do--to educate people about doctored coins.
I suggested that Laura assemble a small collection of doctored coins in TPG holders. I think she had offered some sort of cash donation to the ANA if someone "outed the coin doctors," so she was clearly willing to put forward money for the cause. For $5k-$10k I figured she could easily put together a lot of 20 or so coins, a few examples of puttied gold, stripped gold and silver, recolored copper, artificial toning, etc. This could become a sort of traveling exhibit that could occupy a corner of her case at shows. Something so that people could actually see, hands-on, what the common types of doctoring look like. It's one thing to see pictures or read about such coins in heated blog posts, but, like learning how to grade, you need to see things in hand. Certainly this is no end-all solution, but it would be a great place for pro-active numismatists to start learning about what the doctored stuff looks like.
The idea got poo-poo'd, mainly because it would look bad on the TPGs to have the doctored coins displayed in their holders. However, just as easily the coins could be removed from their holders, and displayed raw. This would allow for better viewing, and I don't think anyone would doubt the coins were "Formerly graded MSXX by a TPG" if they were coming from a reputable source like Laura.
Going forward, I still think this is a good idea, and potentially something Laura could still try to organize herself, or try to start at the ANA. To my knowledge, there is still no easily accessible collection of doctored coins that is available to the public.
This isn't a perfect solution, but it's a real way to help educate some people. Besides the financial commitment--which seems modest based on the numbers some people are throwing around here--I don't think it would be too much of a burden or take a tremendous amount of effort. And if someone like Laura were to do it herself, I'm sure it could get done very quickly, without having to deal with legal process, bureaucracy, etc.
<< <i>In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation? >>
It's a fair question, Andy, but I would try to get a subcommittee together that could propose suggestions to be presented to the Board. I would try to twist the arm of people that could really put some weight behind those ideas. One person each from PCGS, NGC and CAC and i would try to get someone who passionately cares about original surfaces like Tom Bush.
1. Is there a way to get the ANA to effect more changes in EBay policies that will help this hobby have fewer one-and-done customers, who after being burned by a seller leave the hobby never to return? Can the ANA throw some weight at Ebay?
2. What lessons can be learned from Numismatic Consumer Alliance?
3. Set up a system for donating clearly altered or ATed coins that can be used as part of the seminar presentations and coin show displays. I have one i unknowingly bought years ago I would gladly donate so long as I knew it was permanently out of the marketplace.
4. Commission a book on a 100 great, unmessed-with coins and have Todd Pollock take high resolution, full page photographs of each one. Get someone good to write a description for each coin. Every ANA member can buy a copy for $50, every non-member $100.
I have some other harebrained ones but the point is get people thinking. The number of unmessed with coins in the hobby goes down every year and yes, i understand messed-with is a relative term but we have some very passionate people who care about preserving the good coins that we have.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>I won't bother joining as long as it remains corrupt as anything... Maybe in a couple years, if Laura can push through some culture changes, I would consider it... >>
FWIW... I renewed my ANA membership today. This will be my second year with the organization and I have really only been a member for my hard copy of The Numismatist. I like how this bottle is getting shaken up and I want to be there when the cork pops! I'm 32 years old and who knows, maybe I can be a part of the group that changed it for future generations to enjoy
If Laura had bothered to even read the ANA press release, she would have found that under 21,000 members were eligible to vote this year -- due to changes in how long you must be a member to vote and YN voting age -- not 28,000 members. A 27% voter turnout is not great... but better than the 19% she claimed.
Greg >>
You REALLY don't get it, do you Greg?
You're part of the problem, IMHO, and will continue to do so. Hopefully Laura will form her own slate of non-incumbents (Warren Mills immediately comes to mind as one such person) in the next election. Laura should run for President and have her slate campaign for each other and ask for a "vote for all of us or vote for none of us" vote.
I think you'd be out after that election.
Now, be a good Board member and go shake in the dark corner because Laura's coming and she's going to try and get things done right. If she can't, I hope she takes names and publicly calls them out as well.
Meanwhile, please keep thinking you're an "inside expert" now with a term and a second one coming up. Either follow Laura's lead or be prepared to get out of the way.
<< <i>Point being that of the thousands of votes Laura received, many were for just her and not the incumbents. Those happy with the status quo voted elsewhere. She has the duty to represent those who voted for her - those who want change. It is not her job to fit in. Deal with it. >>
I'm sorry, but your math is plain wrong.
5542 ballots were received -- meaning a possible total of 38,794 votes for individual governors.
If you sum up the total number of votes cast, 33,023 votes were cast (or an average of 5.96 votes per ballot.
Laura received 2,569 votes. If even 1,000 of those votes were ONLY for Laura, that would have the possible total number of votes cast would be 32,794 -- less than what was actually cast.
Very few people I know voted for seven candidates (I voted for five). I'm sure Laura received perhaps 100 or 200 votes just for her... but the numbers simple don't add up to say "many [votes] were for just her and not the incumbents".
Greg
P.S. Yes, I did edit my post to add the final two paragraphs.
P.P.S. Feel free to spend $50k on a direct mail effort in an ANA election. First of all, the ANA membership list is not sold for any purpose. Secondly, I spent $0 on my campaign -- compared to $500 or so in 2011, and I won. Maybe it's not about money, but the better candidate? >>
Maybe you're posting here has gotten you a "legend" of supporters who are beginning to have second thoughts as to why they supported you either time? Third time a charm perhaps before they smarten up and vote only for non-incumbents?
Interesting that you seem agitated about this. What is it to you if Laura is not interested in fitting in? >>
As much as Laura and I don't get along, if she needs a slate the next time, I'll run with her (if she'd have me) because apart from our personality conflicts, we agree on the ANA. Heck, my platform would largely be "I agree with Laura!"
I like the idea of a funded campaign as well. Run a slate, handpicked by Laura and those of us who agree can either run with her and/or contribute for the election of her slate.
I don't think Greg would be on the slate but YMMV. Same with Scott IMHO as well.
You are nothing but a troll... you have been since the time you first said I was not worthy of being elected to the ANA Board when I first ran.
You then talked up a "clean sweep slate" once I was elected. Only one person you wanted to run ran.
You then predicted Laura would not only beat all other candidates, but her vote total would make everyone realize the power behind her candidacy.
Guess what.. none of those things happened. I'm going to do what I should have done two years ago and just ignored what you say. Buh-bye.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member.
<< <i>Let's save this post for two years and see who's in and who's out after the next election. >>
More than happy to do that... two years ago you predicted Laura would have a slate of seven people removing the entire BoG. Two weeks ago, you predicted Laura's vote total would dwarf all other candidates. Your track record is horrible.
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i> I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
More brain-damaged drivel from someone who, if he actually had an IQ, still couldn't spell it.
Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) I expect another threat to have my ass kicked. First, of course, he'd have to get his head out of his own.
And, my manly Mr. Mits, the very idea of IMHO, based on your base and arrogant attitude, is proof positive that you have not a clue about what it means.
Please now, tell me I'm arrogant. I know that already. I've earned my chops. IMNSHO
edited to add: I still can't believe it's OK to say ass here
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
<< <i>Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) >>
...the avatar does resemble an 8-bit character from an arcade-video game in the 1980's. I kind of like it though, it reminds me of how lightning-fast technology has moved in the years since.
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
This is going to be my last post here, since this thread seems to be drifting further and further away from the OP, but I'll say this...
Greg has taken hours to respond insightfully to the questions and criticisms towards him and the ANA on this thread. He is a direct pipeline from the people here to the Board of Governors. Literally anybody here, regardless of financial class, age, number of posts, status with the ANA, etc. can ask him questions and he is willing to answer swiftly. This is a quality you want in someone on the Board of Governors. This is something you do not find in many other organizations of similar scale. His willingness to keep a calm, appropriate and level head is also a quality remarkably absent in many people here. If this is the "real" Greg as a board member (what does that even mean?), then he sure has my vote. If you do not find his willingness to communicate on this thread at least commendable, then I'm at a loss for words.
Change with the ANA will not come quickly. I don't know all the inner workings but it's a big organization and there's a lot of process involved. A "clean sweep" is unrealistic. You wind up with a bunch of inexperienced, untested people; stuff doesn't get done, people don't know the boundaries of their roles, there are power squabbles, and there are gaping inefficiencies. Perhaps you think the current ANA problems already encompass those qualities--but transferring those problems into the hands of an entirely new group of people would only magnify things. Revolutions are hardly ever successful... don't get caught up in the romance of the idea. The responsible way to get things done is piece by piece.
I wish Laura well in her new position. Clearly, she has talked a lot over the last several years and I am excited to see what she will do. She is very business savvy and enthusiastic, and I hope she can channel that into a functioning voice and role within the ANA.
To those who have voiced an interest in running next election to back up Laura's positions, go for it. That's what the system is for. However, know that it is not a position to take on lightly, and know that you'll have to speak to people face to face, instead of through the keys of a message board.
GoldenEyeNumismatics, well stated post. Bravo! I was thinking the same things you posted. I don't know Greg personally, but what you said about his willingness to keep a calm, appropriate and level head is also a quality remarkably absent in many people here is accurate. Greg seems like a good guy. At the very least, we should all appreciate his involvement on this forum.
GEN, you wished Laura well, as do I and many others. I am still concerned however, that a brash, arrogant, hostile attitude within the ANA's BofG will only cause a deeper divide. One governor standing (and yelling) alone is not going to get the job done. Again, we can only hope for the best and await the outcome. Perhaps behind closed doors Laura will be diplomatic and level headed...
Not knowing GregL and not being a member of ANA I give GregL a lot of credit for coming out here knowing he would stand up to the major beating and keeping cool.
Reading his replies got me thinking if I should join ANA. That goes in my book to his credit
Glad to see a number of participants to this thread giving appreciation to Greg Lyon for being a participant on the coin forum and for providing us with insight regarding the ANA, its board of governors, and answering questions in a calm, fair way. This is NOT easy on a general coin forum where there are many different views and opinions expressed. The fact that Greg has been here ongoing for two and a half years now says a lot about his dedication to this forum. I only wish other ANA board members would take advantage of this forum to express their views. I'm sure that when the new ANA web site is up and running there will be board participation there too, but right now, this is the best place to communicate with coin interested people.
I also think it is fair to say that the majority of those here wish Laura Sperber well as a new member of the ANA board. We want to see the ANA suceed and grow and if Laura's input to the process leads to positive change, then I think everyone will be happy. Steve
So far from this thread all I can gather is that Laura's track record is yet to be proven depending upon how much resistance she meets with regards to her plans while GregL appears to be doing a bang up job of it. I would imagine that the behind the scenes action at the ANA is more than some of us would care to know about ... sort of like finding out what goes into making hot dogs or sausages. Whatever comes of the recent ANA elections, I hope that things will improve for those who care about this organization and its future.
As for me, being predominately a darksider I don't really see the potential for membership or participation in the ANA ... pretty much lost interest in US coins years ago.
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment.
<< <i>Let's save this post for two years and see who's in and who's out after the next election. >>
More than happy to do that... two years ago you predicted Laura would have a slate of seven people removing the entire BoG. Two weeks ago, you predicted Laura's vote total would dwarf all other candidates. Your track record is horrible. >>
Let's see what a well funded slate of candidates who aggressively campaign for votes and run on an "all of us or none of us" slate does....and you are not on the slate.
Enjoy what I expect to be your last term on the Board, Director Lyon.
<< <i> I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
More brain-damaged drivel from someone who, if he actually had an IQ, still couldn't spell it.
Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) I expect another threat to have my ass kicked. First, of course, he'd have to get his head out of his own.
And, my manly Mr. Mits, the very idea of IMHO, based on your base and arrogant attitude, is proof positive that you have not a clue about what it means.
Please now, tell me I'm arrogant. I know that already. I've earned my chops. IMNSHO
edited to add: I still can't believe it's OK to say ass here >>
<< <i>Glad to see a number of participants to this thread giving appreciation to Greg Lyon for being a participant on the coin forum and for providing us with insight regarding the ANA, its board of governors, and answering questions in a calm, fair way. This is NOT easy on a general coin forum where there are many different views and opinions expressed. The fact that Greg has been here ongoing for two and a half years now says a lot about his dedication to this forum. I only wish other ANA board members would take advantage of this forum to express their views. I'm sure that when the new ANA web site is up and running there will be board participation there too, but right now, this is the best place to communicate with coin interested people.
I also think it is fair to say that the majority of those here wish Laura Sperber well as a new member of the ANA board. We want to see the ANA suceed and grow and if Laura's input to the process leads to positive change, then I think everyone will be happy. Steve >>
I think it's fair to say that Greg realizes posting here likely gets him enough votes to pull him through any close election he may have had in the past or in the future. I'll hand it to him for a good political move.
I hope Laura runs for President in two years and puts a slate together for an "up or down" vote, making it clear that they all want to be voted in or none of them. I wouldn't include anyone on the last Board on her slate either, no matter how much any of them may desire it. Personally, I'd like to see Laura run against Greg for President.
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
<< <i>Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) >>
...the avatar does resemble an 8-bit character from an arcade-video game in the 1980's. I kind of like it though, it reminds me of how lightning-fast technology has moved in the years since.
Erik >>
Someday I may have a contest for whomever can identify where my avatar originates.
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
I think there are potential similarities to Walt's first Board term and Laura's. If anyone can understand being the newbie in a static, do-nothing organization and how "procedures" can be used to remove you, I would think that would be Walt.
If he's not a true leader for change after all he's experienced firsthand.....IMHO there will be additional dark skies on the ANA's horizon.
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
She's not "President-elect Sperber" YET!
Wait two years. >>
LOL. Cart before the horse much? Why don't you take a break from spiking the ball over her election and see what actually happens over the next two years, just for kicks?
Comments
<< <i>As for the $500,000 or so just sitting around for YN programs, how about expanding your educational programs to include online courses, more and better corresponence courses, perhaps even a "degree" in Numismatics? >>
The first problem is that the money designated for YN programs can only be spent on YN programs... not general educational programs.
As for expanding our offerings, significantly more online content is planned -- but requires our website upgrade to take place first. Regarding a "degree in Numismatics", are you familiar with our existing Numismatic Diploma program?
Greg
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Greg, I know the Bylaws allow donations to be designated for specific purposes. Why can't the Bylaws be changed as it relates to YN donations. If the ANA can fund the level of YN activities thru their annual auction and summer seminar activities, why not eliminate the donations to YN category for donations and establish other donation categories which are more needed. Seems like the board could do that with a simple vote. OR are the board members worried that by doing such an elimination certain members will drop out because their pet reason for giving a donation is to give it for YN's. Steve
There are other categories for donations -- quite a few, in fact. Like was stated earlier, why would any association turn down a donation for a specific program -- even if it was already well-funded.
If the purpose of the YN Summer Seminar Auctions were changed (which are the largest fund-raiser for YN programs) to say... adult scholarships... do you think people would pay $1000 for a bottle of water? Over and above that, do you think the YNs would be motivated to run an auction which was to send adults to Summer Seminar? Or build a new website?
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>I notice how you avoided answering any of my questions, maybe it is just that how the Board of Governors spend the association’s money is part of the “secret squirrel” stuff you do without any transparency.
Perhaps I'm a little tired of trying to answer questions posed by people who don't seem to have a clue about what they are referring to? Such as accusing someone who has been General Counsel for six months being on a "gravy train" or bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
There is transparency on what money is being spent on. The ANA, as a 501(c)3 files an annual Form 990 report to the IRS. Our books are audited by a CPA. And quarterly budget updates are posted on the website. A link for those who may care.
Realize legal fees are -- to a good extent -- outside of our control. Chris Cipoletti caused several years of high legal expense by challenging his dismissal. In the end, the ANA won and received a settlement from him. Likewise, we are having to defend a lawsuit by Larry Shepherd which we are confident we will win.
Looking over financial reports (quickly) from 2008... the ANA spent over $500,000 in legal fees in Fiscal years 2008 & 2009. In FY 2010, that dropped to $270,000. In FY 2011, it was about $425,000. In the past two years, we've spent well under $200k/year. Significant, yes... necessary, yes. Any credit to the current board for bringing them down? Of course not...
Greg >>
I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside.
I considered being a life member in the 90's. At the time the interest on the cost of a life membership more than paid the yearly membeship fee! I almost see the ANA as a parasite to feed who...I don't know!
<< <i>
<< <i>I also found it interesting that the YN program is well funded yet other areas are lacking. That makes me wonder a)if the YN program is not being pursued to its full potential or b) if the YN program is simply overfunded in relationship to the interest therein. Virtually any time I hear the words "ANA" and "donation" in the same sentence, it's usually the YN program that's being discussed- so I suppose I could see where this could be the case.
It also makes me wonder if there are some other areas that could be scaled back or cut if there is waning (or no) interest in them. In other words, are they funding the right things? >>
When a donation is made to the ANA, the donor can request that it be targeted for a specific purpose (YNs, Bob Leece Memorial Fund, Library, etc.) or not. If the money is targeted for a specific purpose, the ANA must honor those wishes. Donating to support YNs is "sexy"... donating for, say adult Summer Seminar scholarships, is not.
As a result, YN activities can be mostly, if not completely, funded by the annual donations received for that purpose. This allows current revenues (dues, auction revenues, convention revenues) to be used for non-YN activities, similar to a way that most state lotteries say 100% of profits go to education -- true, except that means less general revenue will go to support education.
Believe it or not, the ANA runs a very lean ship. When you consider we have a $6 million / year budget which includes about 34 full time employees and must cover the costs of hosting two annual conventions, Summer Seminar and publishing a monthly magazine there's not a lot of fat on the bone.
What areas would members like to see cut back? Library? Museum? The Numismatist? Summer Seminar? Conventions? Our website.. oh wait, we don't put enough money into that already!
The ANA needs to improve it's fundraising -- we must provide potential donors with the belief their money would be used wisely, we need to provide concrete proof of what comes from those donations and we must make it easy to give. All three are being worked on today.
Greg >>
Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful!
<< <i>I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside. >>
As I've said before, the majority of ANA legal fees from 2007 through 2010 were from Chris Cipoletti's litigation which ended up being ruled in favor of the ANA with a cash settlement to the ANA. Are you saying we should not have defended ourselves and just given Cipoletti what he wanted?
As for membership dues and benefits... dues still do not cover the cost of membership, but are subsidized by other revenues the ANA receives. What benefits have "gone buy (sic} the wayside"?
Greg
2008- $500,000
2009- $500,000
2010- $270.000
2011- $425,000
2012- $140.000
2013- $140,000
2012 AND 2013 are estimates well under 200K
So... is it fair to write that the ANA incurred or anticipates to incur legal fees estimated at $1,975,000 since 2008?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful! >>
Overall, ANA conventions are profitable. My point was that you may look at the $6 million budget and go "WOW, that's a lot of money when dealers are charged as much as they are for tables!"
But if you look into the ANA financial reports, you'll see that the costs of running a convention are significant - looking through the ANA Budget for 2012-2013, direct costs for the conventions are in excess of $800,000. These are expenses like convention halls, general services contractors, banquet and convention advertising. But that also does NOT count the cost of staff salaries and benefits working on conventions as well as travel costs.
That adds up to over $1 million a year, but those are pass-through expenditures... it's revenue to the ANA but goes right back out on the expense side, so not something which can be "trimming the fat".
Greg
<< <i>Digression...
Since there is 5k for an adult scholarship, I'll take it for next year. PM me details.
Continue... >>
Me two
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm probably late in the game...but all I can say is WOW! How in the H does a friendly hobby's main club have to feed so much to the lawyers? I am simply and totally shocked! No wonder the costs of being a member have increasede so much and the benifits have gone buy the wayside. >>
As I've said before, the majority of ANA legal fees from 2007 through 2010 were from Chris Cipoletti's litigation which ended up being ruled in favor of the ANA with a cash settlement to the ANA. Are you saying we should not have defended ourselves and just given Cipoletti what he wanted?
As for membership dues and benefits... dues still do not cover the cost of membership, but are subsidized by other revenues the ANA receives. What benefits have "gone buy (sic} the wayside"?
Greg >>
In your own defense...shouldn't the cash settlement to the ANA offset the legal expenses...or is that included in the final yearly legal costs?
I guess the additional cost for a hard copy of the Numismatist was my gripe. Wonder what the difference between paying for website tech,maintainance,etc. vrs. the cost of a hard copy are.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you saying it costs the ANA to do conventions????? I would think not! If they do then there is way too much fat! I honestly do not know of any conventions that are revenue negative if they are sucessful! >>
Overall, ANA conventions are profitable. My point was that you may look at the $6 million budget and go "WOW, that's a lot of money when dealers are charged as much as they are for tables!"
But if you look into the ANA financial reports, you'll see that the costs of running a convention are significant - looking through the ANA Budget for 2012-2013, direct costs for the conventions are in excess of $800,000. These are expenses like convention halls, general services contractors, banquet and convention advertising. But that also does NOT count the cost of staff salaries and benefits working on conventions as well as travel costs.
That adds up to over $1 million a year, but those are pass-through expenditures... it's revenue to the ANA but goes right back out on the expense side, so not something which can be "trimming the fat".
Greg >>
If their is a million dollars there I would wager there is a bit of fat that could be trimmed! The debate that's raging around the country about CEO's compensation and perks comes to mind!
Edited to make my smiley work!
<< <i>In your own defense...shouldn't the cash settlement to the ANA offset the legal expenses...or is that included in the final yearly legal costs? >>
I was simply looking at the "Expense" side of the register. The settlement does come in, but on the "Revenue" side of the register.
<< <i>I guess the additional cost for a hard copy of the Numismatist was my gripe. Wonder what the difference between paying for website tech,maintainance,etc. vrs. the cost of a hard copy are. >>
The online Numismatist is not hosted by the ANA but rather by our publisher. The costs -- printing and mailing -- of the paper edition are far more than the online version.
Greg
<< <i>If their is a million dollars there I would wager there is a bit of fat that could be trimmed! The debate that's raging around the country about CEO's compensation and perks comes to mind!
When the majority of that cost is for outside vendors where there are not multiple vendors to choose from (if we are having a convention in Atlanta, like next year's National Money Show, there are not multiple convention centers bidding for our business), the majority of costs are pass-through... we get the revenue for the bourse tables but they go to pay the convention center, the convention center decorators, the hotel where the banquet is held, etc. We work to keep costs down but there are not a lot of choices in those businesses.
Greg
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>As an ANA Life Member, I am struck by how much energy has been expended in this thread by non-members, in discussing the interworkings of an organization to which they don't even belong. Hopefully, they are open to the possibility of joining in the future, if their concerns are addressed. If not, I don't know why they're bothering to post comments, or why ANA members should care what they think. >>
As an ANA member myself, I care in that all "non-members" are potential members. Having their opinions expressed allows members to pass those opinions on up.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation? >>
A few years ago, at the height of concern about doctored coins in TPG holders, there was a thread on this forum (either started by Laura or the OP was specifically discussing one of her blog entries, don't remember which) discussing what could be done--or what Laura could do--to educate people about doctored coins.
I suggested that Laura assemble a small collection of doctored coins in TPG holders. I think she had offered some sort of cash donation to the ANA if someone "outed the coin doctors," so she was clearly willing to put forward money for the cause. For $5k-$10k I figured she could easily put together a lot of 20 or so coins, a few examples of puttied gold, stripped gold and silver, recolored copper, artificial toning, etc. This could become a sort of traveling exhibit that could occupy a corner of her case at shows. Something so that people could actually see, hands-on, what the common types of doctoring look like. It's one thing to see pictures or read about such coins in heated blog posts, but, like learning how to grade, you need to see things in hand. Certainly this is no end-all solution, but it would be a great place for pro-active numismatists to start learning about what the doctored stuff looks like.
The idea got poo-poo'd, mainly because it would look bad on the TPGs to have the doctored coins displayed in their holders. However, just as easily the coins could be removed from their holders, and displayed raw. This would allow for better viewing, and I don't think anyone would doubt the coins were "Formerly graded MSXX by a TPG" if they were coming from a reputable source like Laura.
Going forward, I still think this is a good idea, and potentially something Laura could still try to organize herself, or try to start at the ANA. To my knowledge, there is still no easily accessible collection of doctored coins that is available to the public.
This isn't a perfect solution, but it's a real way to help educate some people. Besides the financial commitment--which seems modest based on the numbers some people are throwing around here--I don't think it would be too much of a burden or take a tremendous amount of effort. And if someone like Laura were to do it herself, I'm sure it could get done very quickly, without having to deal with legal process, bureaucracy, etc.
<< <i>In recent years, PCGS, NGC and CAC have all taken steps to promote consumer protection in the hobby and Laura wants the ANA to do more. If the ANA makes some strides in that area in the next two years, that would be a truly positive development.
I'm all for consumer protection, but not sure how to accomplish it any better than it's already being done. So, with all due respect, what exactly would you suggest the ANA do that would improve on the current situation? >>
It's a fair question, Andy, but I would try to get a subcommittee together that could propose suggestions to be presented to the Board. I would try to twist the arm of people that could really put some weight behind those ideas. One person each from PCGS, NGC and CAC and i would try to get someone who passionately cares about original surfaces like Tom Bush.
1. Is there a way to get the ANA to effect more changes in EBay policies that will help this hobby have fewer one-and-done customers, who after being burned by a seller leave the hobby never to return? Can the ANA throw some weight at Ebay?
2. What lessons can be learned from Numismatic Consumer Alliance?
3. Set up a system for donating clearly altered or ATed coins that can be used as part of the seminar presentations and coin show displays. I have one i unknowingly bought years ago I would gladly donate so long as I knew it was permanently out of the marketplace.
4. Commission a book on a 100 great, unmessed-with coins and have Todd Pollock take high resolution, full page photographs of each one. Get someone good to write a description for each coin. Every ANA member can buy a copy for $50, every non-member $100.
I have some other harebrained ones but the point is get people thinking. The number of unmessed with coins in the hobby goes down every year and yes, i understand messed-with is a relative term but we have some very passionate people who care about preserving the good coins that we have.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>I won't bother joining as long as it remains corrupt as anything... Maybe in a couple years, if Laura can push through some culture changes, I would consider it... >>
what is the corrupt behavior?
Erik
<< <i>*sigh*
If Laura had bothered to even read the ANA press release, she would have found that under 21,000 members were eligible to vote this year -- due to changes in how long you must be a member to vote and YN voting age -- not 28,000 members. A 27% voter turnout is not great... but better than the 19% she claimed.
Greg >>
You REALLY don't get it, do you Greg?
You're part of the problem, IMHO, and will continue to do so. Hopefully Laura will form her own slate of non-incumbents (Warren Mills immediately comes to mind as one such person) in the next election. Laura should run for President and have her slate campaign for each other and ask for a "vote for all of us or vote for none of us" vote.
I think you'd be out after that election.
Now, be a good Board member and go shake in the dark corner because Laura's coming and she's going to try and get things done right. If she can't, I hope she takes names and publicly calls them out as well.
Meanwhile, please keep thinking you're an "inside expert" now with a term and a second one coming up. Either follow Laura's lead or be prepared to get out of the way.
<< <i>
<< <i>Point being that of the thousands of votes Laura received, many were for just her and not the incumbents. Those happy with the status quo voted elsewhere. She has the duty to represent those who voted for her - those who want change. It is not her job to fit in. Deal with it. >>
I'm sorry, but your math is plain wrong.
5542 ballots were received -- meaning a possible total of 38,794 votes for individual governors.
If you sum up the total number of votes cast, 33,023 votes were cast (or an average of 5.96 votes per ballot.
Laura received 2,569 votes. If even 1,000 of those votes were ONLY for Laura, that would have the possible total number of votes cast would be 32,794 -- less than what was actually cast.
Very few people I know voted for seven candidates (I voted for five). I'm sure Laura received perhaps 100 or 200 votes just for her... but the numbers simple don't add up to say "many [votes] were for just her and not the incumbents".
Greg
P.S. Yes, I did edit my post to add the final two paragraphs.
P.P.S. Feel free to spend $50k on a direct mail effort in an ANA election. First of all, the ANA membership list is not sold for any purpose. Secondly, I spent $0 on my campaign -- compared to $500 or so in 2011, and I won. Maybe it's not about money, but the better candidate? >>
Maybe you're posting here has gotten you a "legend" of supporters who are beginning to have second thoughts as to why they supported you either time? Third time a charm perhaps before they smarten up and vote only for non-incumbents?
<< <i>We shall see....
Interesting that you seem agitated about this. What is it to you if Laura is not interested in fitting in? >>
As much as Laura and I don't get along, if she needs a slate the next time, I'll run with her (if she'd have me) because apart from our personality conflicts, we agree on the ANA. Heck, my platform would largely be "I agree with Laura!"
I like the idea of a funded campaign as well. Run a slate, handpicked by Laura and those of us who agree can either run with her and/or contribute for the election of her slate.
I don't think Greg would be on the slate but YMMV. Same with Scott IMHO as well.
<< <i>You REALLY don't get it, do you Greg? >>
You are nothing but a troll... you have been since the time you first said I was not worthy of being elected to the ANA Board when I first ran.
You then talked up a "clean sweep slate" once I was elected. Only one person you wanted to run ran.
You then predicted Laura would not only beat all other candidates, but her vote total would make everyone realize the power behind her candidacy.
Guess what.. none of those things happened. I'm going to do what I should have done two years ago and just ignored what you say. Buh-bye.
Greg
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member.
<< <i>
<< <i>You REALLY don't get it, do you Greg? >>
You are nothing but a troll... you have been since the time you first said I was not worthy of being elected to the ANA Board when I first ran.
You then talked up a "clean sweep slate" once I was elected. Only one person you wanted to run ran.
You then predicted Laura would not only beat all other candidates, but her vote total would make everyone realize the power behind her candidacy.
Guess what.. none of those things happened. I'm going to do what I should have done two years ago and just ignored what you say. Buh-bye.
Greg >>
Let's save this post for two years and see who's in and who's out after the next election.
<< <i>Let's save this post for two years and see who's in and who's out after the next election. >>
More than happy to do that... two years ago you predicted Laura would have a slate of seven people removing the entire BoG. Two weeks ago, you predicted Laura's vote total would dwarf all other candidates. Your track record is horrible.
<< <i> I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
More brain-damaged drivel from someone who, if he actually had an IQ, still couldn't spell it.
Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) I expect another threat to have my ass kicked. First, of course, he'd have to get his head out of his own.
And, my manly Mr. Mits, the very idea of IMHO, based on your base and arrogant attitude, is proof positive that you have not a clue about what it means.
Please now, tell me I'm arrogant. I know that already. I've earned my chops. IMNSHO
edited to add: I still can't believe it's OK to say ass here
<< <i>Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) >>
...the avatar does resemble an 8-bit character from an arcade-video game in the 1980's. I kind of like it though, it reminds me of how lightning-fast technology has moved in the years since.
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
This is going to be my last post here, since this thread seems to be drifting further and further away from the OP, but I'll say this...
Greg has taken hours to respond insightfully to the questions and criticisms towards him and the ANA on this thread. He is a direct pipeline from the people here to the Board of Governors. Literally anybody here, regardless of financial class, age, number of posts, status with the ANA, etc. can ask him questions and he is willing to answer swiftly. This is a quality you want in someone on the Board of Governors. This is something you do not find in many other organizations of similar scale. His willingness to keep a calm, appropriate and level head is also a quality remarkably absent in many people here. If this is the "real" Greg as a board member (what does that even mean?), then he sure has my vote. If you do not find his willingness to communicate on this thread at least commendable, then I'm at a loss for words.
Change with the ANA will not come quickly. I don't know all the inner workings but it's a big organization and there's a lot of process involved. A "clean sweep" is unrealistic. You wind up with a bunch of inexperienced, untested people; stuff doesn't get done, people don't know the boundaries of their roles, there are power squabbles, and there are gaping inefficiencies. Perhaps you think the current ANA problems already encompass those qualities--but transferring those problems into the hands of an entirely new group of people would only magnify things. Revolutions are hardly ever successful... don't get caught up in the romance of the idea. The responsible way to get things done is piece by piece.
I wish Laura well in her new position. Clearly, she has talked a lot over the last several years and I am excited to see what she will do. She is very business savvy and enthusiastic, and I hope she can channel that into a functioning voice and role within the ANA.
To those who have voiced an interest in running next election to back up Laura's positions, go for it. That's what the system is for. However, know that it is not a position to take on lightly, and know that you'll have to speak to people face to face, instead of through the keys of a message board.
GoldenEyeNumismatics, well stated post. Bravo! I was thinking the same things you posted. I don't know Greg personally, but what you said about his willingness to keep a calm, appropriate and level head is also a quality remarkably absent in many people here is accurate. Greg seems like a good guy. At the very least, we should all appreciate his involvement on this forum.
GEN, you wished Laura well, as do I and many others. I am still concerned however, that a brash, arrogant, hostile attitude within the ANA's BofG will only cause a deeper divide. One governor standing (and yelling) alone is not going to get the job done. Again, we can only hope for the best and await the outcome. Perhaps behind closed doors Laura will be diplomatic and level headed...
Reading his replies got me thinking if I should join ANA. That goes in my book to his credit
I also think it is fair to say that the majority of those here wish Laura Sperber well as a new member of the ANA board. We want to see the ANA suceed and grow and if Laura's input to the process leads to positive change, then I think everyone will be happy.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
As for me, being predominately a darksider I don't really see the potential for membership or participation in the ANA ... pretty much lost interest in US coins years ago.
Happy Rock Wrens
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova
Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
Bill, Oded, Jeff and Scott would have been such a compliment along with Laura and Ralph. Such a disappointing election in our opinion!
Yes, we should give Greg credit for being on this forum answering questions, but from what I have seen his answers are extremely selective.
Good luck Laura! Even though we have never met, I have tremendous respect for you. You have taken on an enormous challenge.
Cecilia
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's save this post for two years and see who's in and who's out after the next election. >>
More than happy to do that... two years ago you predicted Laura would have a slate of seven people removing the entire BoG. Two weeks ago, you predicted Laura's vote total would dwarf all other candidates. Your track record is horrible. >>
Let's see what a well funded slate of candidates who aggressively campaign for votes and run on an "all of us or none of us" slate does....and you are not on the slate.
Enjoy what I expect to be your last term on the Board, Director Lyon.
<< <i>
<< <i> I hope Greg's supporters here, IMHO, are finally beginning to see the "real" him as far as his being a Board member. >>
More brain-damaged drivel from someone who, if he actually had an IQ, still couldn't spell it.
Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) I expect another threat to have my ass kicked. First, of course, he'd have to get his head out of his own.
And, my manly Mr. Mits, the very idea of IMHO, based on your base and arrogant attitude, is proof positive that you have not a clue about what it means.
Please now, tell me I'm arrogant. I know that already. I've earned my chops. IMNSHO
edited to add: I still can't believe it's OK to say ass here
You're a poseur Mr. Nicholson's avatar.
<< <i>Glad to see a number of participants to this thread giving appreciation to Greg Lyon for being a participant on the coin forum and for providing us with insight regarding the ANA, its board of governors, and answering questions in a calm, fair way. This is NOT easy on a general coin forum where there are many different views and opinions expressed. The fact that Greg has been here ongoing for two and a half years now says a lot about his dedication to this forum. I only wish other ANA board members would take advantage of this forum to express their views. I'm sure that when the new ANA web site is up and running there will be board participation there too, but right now, this is the best place to communicate with coin interested people.
I also think it is fair to say that the majority of those here wish Laura Sperber well as a new member of the ANA board. We want to see the ANA suceed and grow and if Laura's input to the process leads to positive change, then I think everyone will be happy.
Steve
I think it's fair to say that Greg realizes posting here likely gets him enough votes to pull him through any close election he may have had in the past or in the future. I'll hand it to him for a good political move.
I hope Laura runs for President in two years and puts a slate together for an "up or down" vote, making it clear that they all want to be voted in or none of them. I wouldn't include anyone on the last Board on her slate either, no matter how much any of them may desire it. Personally, I'd like to see Laura run against Greg for President.
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
She's not "President-elect Sperber" YET!
Wait two years.
<< <i>
<< <i>Remembering my last interaction with this poster boy for masculinity unbound (overcompensating via avatar perhaps?) >>
...the avatar does resemble an 8-bit character from an arcade-video game in the 1980's. I kind of like it though, it reminds me of how lightning-fast technology has moved in the years since.
Erik >>
Someday I may have a contest for whomever can identify where my avatar originates.
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
I think there are potential similarities to Walt's first Board term and Laura's. If anyone can understand being the newbie in a static, do-nothing organization and how "procedures" can be used to remove you, I would think that would be Walt.
If he's not a true leader for change after all he's experienced firsthand.....IMHO there will be additional dark skies on the ANA's horizon.
<< <i>What is the "ED" thing? >>
abbreviation for executive director
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Below is a paraphrase of a post I made to a different thread, as it seems to fit better here:
Given some of the rhetoric I've seen I feel compelled to point out that she is 'governor-elect" Sperber, not "President-elect" Sperber. I think she is a welcome addition and will do what she can to effect change...but somehow I have a feeling that at some point, boards like this will have threads with people lamenting her inability to magically transform the ANA to their liking. At the risk of sounding cliché, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the ANA. It took years to get the ANA to this point, so it is unrealistic to expect one person to make the sweeping changes that some here seem to expect. In simpler terms, I think some people here are expecting way too much from one person and are setting themselves up for disappointment. >>
She's not "President-elect Sperber" YET!
Wait two years. >>
LOL. Cart before the horse much? Why don't you take a break from spiking the ball over her election and see what actually happens over the next two years, just for kicks?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>What is the "ED" thing? >>
abbreviation for executive director >>
Oh, goodness, I was afraid that it was referring to the "other" ED thing.
edited to add: ... which WOULD be disgusting.
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