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HOT,HOT,HOT TOPICS - ANA & LAURA - A MUST READ
Steve
Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
Steve
Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
Comments
<< <i>Less then 5600 apparently voted. Thats out of 28,000 members. Thats HORRIBLE. People do not vote when they do NOT care. For all the chatter I had heard I was shocked to see that SIX incumbents are back on the board. How did that happen? I seriously wonder if the vote count was legit. Is this organziation dying that badly??? >>
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This quote from Laura sums it up and it is very sad, makes me wonder if the members care enough to make a difference.
I think that if major, postive changes happen at the ANA, then the following will happen:
1) Longtime collectors who have never joined the ANA would then join
2) Brand new collectors will find a great organization that is friendly and eager to bring them aboard as members
3) Those who were previously members but decided to bail on the organization will return
4) The majority of the swelling membership WILL vote in future elections
5) All of the above will snowball into a rebirth of the ANA, and it will once again become the great numismatic organization that it once was
<< <i>People do not vote when they do NOT care. >>
Or they do care but experience has taught them that voting isn't going to change anything.
How the leadership deals with Laura is an unknown. They could come down hard on what SHE wants to do. The board also must consider the reaction of other members if they deal hard with Laura. So I still wonder if she will make it to August 10th as a pending member of the board, and if she does take the oath will she and the rest of the board be able to work together. Time will tell. Laura has a HUGE sounding board with her own Hot Topics and she sure can use it to her advantage. No other ANA board member has such a media advantage and THAT in itself may get her off the board. It's politics. Steve
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The A.N.A. legal counsel works for the entire Board of Governors when they are acting as a body only, individual members of the Board do not work for the A.N.A. legal counsel.
Before Laura signs any “non disclosure agreements”, I hope she inquires why? Under what authority she is required to sign? I could see Laura or any member of the Board of Governors being required to sign for a copy of the organizations’ Bylaws, policy manual or Constitution just so it can be documented that the information was issued provided to the elected official when they took office.
But if the “non disclosure agreement” is not important enough to be placed in the organizations’ Constitution, Bylaws or policy manual then I doubt there is any legitimate requirement to have members signs it.
Who does the elected members of the A.N.A. Board of Governors work for anyhow? Do they have the position to work for themselves, each other or the general membership of the A.N.A.?
I don't know where to start and i think it just best for everyone that I write nothing.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
"Second, I am here to represent ALL ANA members and ALL collectors. You voted for me, I am here to represent YOU."
Unless all ANA members have the same goals, this is not possible to do. How do you represent both of two people who have opposing goals?
Yes, I know it's easier to criticize than to actually jump right in and do something, but making promises that almost certainly cannot be kept doesn't seem to be a good idea. As always, YMMV...
<< <i>OMG
I don't know where to start and i think it just best for everyone that I write nothing. >>
Coward!
I for one am happy she is in!!
I really think that you have stepped WELL over the line calling me a coward. I think an immediate apology and taking back the statement is in order. Your action and name calling is the hight of irresponsibility for which you will be held accountable for-
Before calling me a coward, did you even bother to search prior posts I have made on this subject and why I am not a member?
i AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE ANA BECAUSE OF THEIR LEGAL BUDGET. PLEASE LOOK AT THE ANA BUDGETS EACH YEAR FOR THE PAST 20-30 YEARS. I THINK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE WILL IN FACT BE STUNNED INTO SILENCE IF THEY KNEW THE AMOUNT OF FINANCIAL RESOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN WASTED. DO NOT CALL ME A COWARD BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN THE ANA FOR WHAT IT IS AND REFUSE TO JOIN. THIS IS NOT MY BATTLE. THE COMMENTS MADE IN THE HOT, HOT, HOT TOPICS SEEM TO JUST CONFIRM MY THOUGHTS.
I would rather not post my thoughts in hope that the ANA can correct its problems - I am not able to do that for them.
Laura on the other hand, is exactly what is needed.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Turbo:
I really think that you have stepped WELL over the line calling me a coward. I think an immediate apology and taking back the statement is in order. Your action and name calling is the hight of irresponsibility for which you will be held accountable for-
Before calling me a coward, did you even bother to search prior posts I have made on this subject and why I am not a member?
i AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE ANA BECAUSE OF THEIR LEGAL BUDGET. PLEASE LOOK AT THE ANA BUDGETS EACH YEAR FOR THE PAST 20-30 YEARS. I THINK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE WILL IN FACT BE STUNNED INTO SILENCE IF THEY KNEW THE AMOUNT OF FINANCIAL RESOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN WASTED. DO NOT CALL ME A COWARD BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN THE ANA FOR WHAT IT IS AND REFUSE TO JOIN. THIS IS NOT MY BATTLE. THE COMMENTS MADE IN THE HOT, HOT, HOT TOPICS SEEM TO JUST CONFIRM MY THOUGHTS.
I would rather not post my thoughts in hope that the ANA can correct its problems - I am not able to do that for them.
Laura on the other hand, is exactly what is needed. >>
Agree that the name calling is unnecessary and not in keeping with the rules..
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I will not join until I have respect for the organization. Unless Laura needs an ally on the board next election.
Ahh, I like that wink!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I will not join until I have respect for the organization. Unless Laura needs an ally on the board next election.
...hey, just like that rap song from the 1980's; "it takes two to make a thing go right!"
Erik
So much for my hope that Laura would actually to take the time to learn what has gone on at the ANA over the past few years before she starts screaming wildly about corruption and misdeeds. She stated in the ANA Candidates Forum in New Orleans that (paraphrasing), she has not been involved enough to know what the problems are. Well guess what, three days after being elected to the Board she has not been given much, if any, background material as of yet. New Board members will be given copies of the Board meeting minutes from the past two years before being sworn in at the convention next month. That will be a good starting point for her to learn what is going on.
A couple of comments / updates based on what Laura has said and several people have said in this thread...
Participation in the election
If Laura had bothered to even read the ANA press release, she would have found that under 21,000 members were eligible to vote this year -- due to changes in how long you must be a member to vote and YN voting age -- not 28,000 members. A 27% voter turnout is not great... but better than the 19% she claimed.Laura's "Mandate"
Steve wrote:<< <i>How the leadership deals with Laura is an unknown. They could come down hard on what SHE wants to do. The board also must consider the reaction of other members if they deal hard with Laura. >>
I have no intention of "being hard" on Laura, whatever that means. But Laura is already acting as though she won an overwhelming mandate from this election. She was voted in on equal footing as any of the seven other Governors and, actually, finished in last place among the winning candidates.
I will listen to her opinions and consider the suggestions / motions she proposes. However, if she feels as though her agenda should take top priority vs. all the other pressing needs of the ANA, I think she is going to quickly lose respect among the Board.
Role of the ANA Legal Counsel
The ANA hires a legal counsel to provide information to the ANA Board about actions which they are taking, both as a board and as individuals. As a Board member, there is a significant amount of confidential information with which I am entrusted -- regarding personnel decisions, legal actions and contract negotiations -- which would open the Association up to varying legal concequences, if that information were to be made public.For example, the Wyatt Yeager investigation dated back to 2008 but was still underway when I joined the Board in 2011. Could we have made the theft known immediately upon discovery? Yes. But, as Mr. Yeager was living out of the country at the time, doing so would have greatly reduced the possibility of his returning to the United States to face punishment. The investigation and prosecution was kept confidential until a plea deal was reached and Mr. Yeager is currently enjoying time in the Federal Pen.
Some governors are.. shall we say.. more vocal than others. However, all Board members have a fiduciary responsibility to keep the Association's best interests in mind -- meaning, we need to be careful what we say, when and how. That is something which our Legal Counsel provides input on constantly and, is likely the reason she will be involved in new board member orientation. If Laura decides to be "transparent" and puts the ANA in a position where legal action is taken because of what she has said, she will have breached her duty as a Governor and, possibly, put herself at risk having to be responsible personally for the damages which she may cause.
"Not Many People Like Dealers"
Laura talks about the results of the election shows that people don't like dealers... I think that's bogus. Three dealers ran for Governor - one (Gary Adkins) received the highest vote total. Of the other two, one got elected, one didn't. I wouldn't call a 2/3rd success rate something that shows the voters "don't like dealers".Incumbents "not motivated to fix things"
I'd like to know Laura's true feelings once she gets the background on what the Board has done over the past two years. While it is very unfortunate that we have had a string of Executive Directors let go, Kim Kiick has done an amazing job thus far. She is VERY in-tune with what is going on with the ANA, it's short-comings and ways to improve.The Board has put into place a concrete plan to revamp the ANA website -- something long overdue. It will take a little longer than initially planned as it will also involve installing a new membership management system as our existing one simply will not provide the flexibility needed to provide the content and services planned for the new website.
Finally, the Board has brought on a leadership coach to work with the Board, the Executive Director and the ANA staff to ensure we are all working towards a common goal. Additionally, we are finally working to ensure a proper set of financial, employment and museum policies and procedures are in place.
Once again, Laura is speaking without knowledge of what has happened and what is being done to correct past problems.
Greg
And if I need to run next time I will. And I might bankroll two or three more like minded candidates. The time of the good old boy network is over.
<< <i>I doubt the votes for the incumbants match the votes for Ms Sperber. >>
Gary Adkins - Incumbent - 3,220
Scott Rottinghaus - Incumbent - 2,859
Mike Ellis - Incumbent - 2,782
Greg Lyon - Incumbent - 2,723
Laura Sperber - 2,569
You apparently have no idea what you are talking about. (And it's spelled "incumbent".)
If you are accusing someone of altering or fabricating vote totals, I'd love for you to name names. The ANA used a widely respected organization for the election -- one which has worked with many non-profits for over a decade. If you think they are willing to risk their reputation for an organization like the ANA, you are deluding yourself.
Finally, regarding an "old boy network", please do tell what I -- or any other governor has to gain by being on the ANA Board. Hint: It would be a lot more advantageous for me - both financially and in terms of my vacation time from my "real job" to not be on the Board. 2/3rds of the ANA Board for 2013-2015 will be new since 2011. There's not much of a chance of any "old boy network" to develop in that length of time.
Greg
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>I doubt the votes for the incumbants match the votes for Ms Sperber. >>
Gary Adkins - Incumbent - 3,220
Scott Rottinghaus - Incumbent - 2,859
Mike Ellis - Incumbent - 2,782
Greg Lyon - Incumbent - 2,723
Laura Sperber - 2,569
You apparently have no idea what you are talking about. (And it's spelled "incumbent".)
Greg >>
No, you apparently have no idea of what I'm talking about. And it's the sign of a weak mind to focus on spelling errors in a debate.
Point being that of the thousands of votes Laura received, many were for just her and not the incumbents. Those happy with the status quo voted elsewhere. She has the duty to represent those who voted for her - those who want change. It is not her job to fit in. Deal with it.
<< <i>
<< <i>I doubt the votes for the incumbants match the votes for Ms Sperber. >>
Gary Adkins - Incumbent - 3,220
Scott Rottinghaus - Incumbent - 2,859
Mike Ellis - Incumbent - 2,782
Greg Lyon - Incumbent - 2,723
Laura Sperber - 2,569
You apparently have no idea what you are talking about. (And it's spelled "incumbent".)
If you are accusing someone of altering or fabricating vote totals, I'd love for you to name names. The ANA used a widely respected organization for the election -- one which has worked with many non-profits for over a decade. If you think they are willing to risk their reputation for an organization like the ANA, you are deluding yourself.
Finally, regarding an "old boy network", please do tell what I -- or any other governor has to gain by being on the ANA Board. Hint: It would be a lot more advantageous for me - both financially and in terms of my vacation time from my "real job" to not be on the Board. 2/3rds of the ANA Board for 2013-2015 will be new since 2011. There's not much of a chance of any "old boy network" to develop in that length of time.
Greg
Greg >>
I'm pretty sure he was saying that a voter who voted for one or all of the incumbents did not place a vote for Laura and vice versa. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I read it.
Erik
<< <i>And if I need to run next time I will. And I might bankroll two or three more like minded candidates. The time of the good old boy network is over. >>
I like this attitude... That kind of thinking is what wins revolutions
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>And if I need to run next time I will. And I might bankroll two or three more like minded candidates. The time of the good old boy network is over. >>
I like this attitude... That kind of thinking is what wins revolutions
Erik >>
I wonder how $50,000 worth of direct mail would change the mix
<< <i>I will not join until I have respect for the organization. Unless Laura needs an ally on the board next election.
If that's even a remote possibility, you should join now since the Bylaws require candidates to be an ANA member for the previous three years before they can run for the Board.
Good luck Laura and don't let them lock you into those unnecessary confidentiality agreement(s). You already owe some duty of confidentiality as a Board member and don't need to sign any additional documents that reiterate that and likely much more that really isn't required of you. I would guess that you're going to have to have your own legal advisor(s) to help you decide when to listen to the Board's counsel and when to blow them off. Again, best of luck and thanks in advance for your service!
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<< <i>Point being that of the thousands of votes Laura received, many were for just her and not the incumbents. Those happy with the status quo voted elsewhere. She has the duty to represent those who voted for her - those who want change. It is not her job to fit in. Deal with it. >>
I'm sorry, but your math is plain wrong.
5542 ballots were received -- meaning a possible total of 38,794 votes for individual governors.
If you sum up the total number of votes cast, 33,023 votes were cast (or an average of 5.96 votes per ballot.
Laura received 2,569 votes. If even 1,000 of those votes were ONLY for Laura, that would have the possible total number of votes cast would be 32,794 -- less than what was actually cast.
Very few people I know voted for seven candidates (I voted for five). I'm sure Laura received perhaps 100 or 200 votes just for her... but the numbers simple don't add up to say "many [votes] were for just her and not the incumbents".
Greg
P.S. Yes, I did edit my post to add the final two paragraphs.
P.P.S. Feel free to spend $50k on a direct mail effort in an ANA election. First of all, the ANA membership list is not sold for any purpose. Secondly, I spent $0 on my campaign -- compared to $500 or so in 2011, and I won. Maybe it's not about money, but the better candidate?
Interesting that you seem agitated about this. What is it to you if Laura is not interested in fitting in?
if that long. Call it a hunch.
<< <i> The ANA hires a legal counsel to provide information to the ANA Board about actions which they are taking, both as a board and as individuals. >>
Greg,
I am not sure if I will be the only one that has a problem with this statement you made. I understand that the Board of Governors as a body can hire legal counsel to give advice to the A.N.A. through its Boards. But if you as an individual need legal advice then maybe you need to hire your own attorney and not have the A.N.A. pay for it.
Buy the way, how much has the A.N.A. spent on “Legal Counsel” for each one of the past five fiscals years compared to let us say fiscal year 2000? Maybe the “gravy train” that Hollie Wieland has been riding needs to come to an end.
<< <i>Maybe the “gravy train” that Hollie Wieland has been riding needs to come to an end.
You do realize Hollie Wieland was only appointed General Counsel in January, right?
Greg
<< <i>I'm not an ANA member and have no "horse" in this race, but I'd bet Laura won't serve past this term,
if that long. Call it a hunch. >>
It's completely irrelevant how long she serves, as God bless her for even bothering to try and save a sinking ship.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe the “gravy train” that Hollie Wieland has been riding needs to come to an end.
You do realize Hollie Wieland was only appointed General Counsel in January, right?
Greg >>
I notice how you avoided answering any of my questions, maybe it is just that how the Board of Governors spend the association’s money is part of the “secret squirrel” stuff you do without any transparency.
<< <i>This quote from Laura sums it up and it is very sad, makes me wonder if the members care enough to make a difference.
I think that if major, postive changes happen at the ANA, then the following will happen:
1) Longtime collectors who have never joined the ANA would then join
2) Brand new collectors will find a great organization that is friendly and eager to bring them aboard as members
3) Those who were previously members but decided to bail on the organization will return
4) The majority of the swelling membership WILL vote in future elections
5) All of the above will snowball into a rebirth of the ANA, and it will once again become the great numismatic organization that it once was >>
This will ONLY happen if the current ANA Membership "makes" it happen by using their votes.
Otherwise, it'll just be business as usual.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I notice how you avoided answering any of my questions, maybe it is just that how the Board of Governors spend the association’s money is part of the “secret squirrel” stuff you do without any transparency.
Perhaps I'm a little tired of trying to answer questions posed by people who don't seem to have a clue about what they are referring to? Such as accusing someone who has been General Counsel for six months being on a "gravy train" or bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
There is transparency on what money is being spent on. The ANA, as a 501(c)3 files an annual Form 990 report to the IRS. Our books are audited by a CPA. And quarterly budget updates are posted on the website. A link for those who may care.
Realize legal fees are -- to a good extent -- outside of our control. Chris Cipoletti caused several years of high legal expense by challenging his dismissal. In the end, the ANA won and received a settlement from him. Likewise, we are having to defend a lawsuit by Larry Shepherd which we are confident we will win.
Looking over financial reports (quickly) from 2008... the ANA spent over $500,000 in legal fees in Fiscal years 2008 & 2009. In FY 2010, that dropped to $270,000. In FY 2011, it was about $425,000. In the past two years, we've spent well under $200k/year. Significant, yes... necessary, yes. Any credit to the current board for bringing them down? Of course not...
Greg
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it.
<< <i>Why is it that people "don't have a clue". I wonder... >>
Something of a cheap shot. I'm guessing a majority of people who come here shooting from the hip
aren't particularly conversant with the documents made public by the ANA. He cited specific examples
bearing that out.
Spend $200,000-500,000 per year which equates to about 25%-50% of each members dues
on legal fees.
And you appear to think that $200,000 is "good" compared to 2005.
Excuse me, I need to go take a shower.
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
Speaking of "not helping one's cause", you castigate him for "focusing" on your spelling error (when he
actually just mentioned it in passing) and then try to score points for his typo.
Go Laura!
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
Speaking of "not helping one's cause", you castigate him for "focusing" on your spelling error (when he
actually just mentioned it in passing) and then try to score points for his typo.
Duh. Sheesh! /eyeroll
<< <i>And you appear to think that $200,000 is "good" compared to 2005. >>
I said the fact that we've reduced them from over $500k to under $200k is good.
As I said, we can't control who sues us (even though we have prevailed in the end). Baseless lawsuits (see Cipoletti) still cost money to defend.
The additional move we have made is moving from having a general counsel on retainer to paying one based on actual costs.
It would be great to have legal fees under $25k/year.. but when you just look at the contracts we sign (conventions, auctions, etc), you're going to spend quite a bit to have those reviewed just by themselves.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>bring told that thousands of votes Laura Sperber received were for her and her alone.
It's 'being'. Lol
I said 'many'. You chose to interpret that as thousands, which is just silly. You are certainly not helping your cause here. Like I said - it's not Laura's job to fit in with you. Deal with it. >>
Speaking of "not helping one's cause", you castigate him for "focusing" on your spelling error (when he
actually just mentioned it in passing) and then try to score points for his typo.
Duh. Sheesh! /eyeroll >>
Sorry, but after you told him directly that he was "out of line", you don't then get to mock him
through imitation. It's one or the other.
I'm out of this thread. You may now resume flailing away unimpeded in blithe anger.