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Two Vickies - What is this line on the 1858 5c? * new evidence Sep 15 *
Pokermandude
Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭
The 1895 large cent I bought just the other day. GTG if you'd like
The 1858 5 cent I have had in al album for years. I was browsing through my extensive collection trying to find 100 coins to submit to ICCS for their bulk discount. I had already passed over this one a few times, assuming that the long mark was a staple scratch (as I assumed when I bought it as part of a collection). Then I took a closer look and was very pleasantly surprised that it's actually a die break! The somewhat parallel mark between the 5 and the S, is unfortunately a mark or some sort. But I don't think it's bad enough to warrant a "scratch" note on a holder. The toning is quite nice once it is lit up. Without good light it seems rather dark and insignificant.
The 1858 5 cent I have had in al album for years. I was browsing through my extensive collection trying to find 100 coins to submit to ICCS for their bulk discount. I had already passed over this one a few times, assuming that the long mark was a staple scratch (as I assumed when I bought it as part of a collection). Then I took a closer look and was very pleasantly surprised that it's actually a die break! The somewhat parallel mark between the 5 and the S, is unfortunately a mark or some sort. But I don't think it's bad enough to warrant a "scratch" note on a holder. The toning is quite nice once it is lit up. Without good light it seems rather dark and insignificant.
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You should also try to look at the first 8 closely through binocs or a good loupe .. it well could be a very scarce variety (1858/1558). The date has definitely been repunched, but I don't see the normal Obverse marker ... however there DOES appear to be the tell-tale tip sticking out, top left, of the first 8 but not quite in the correct spot on my computer screen. Also, there appears to be a clash after DEI on the Obverse, but there is nothing on the Reverse that would look like that after the reverse die clashed with the Obverse with no planchet between. I'd post this coin on a couple Canadian sites (the Canadiancoppercoin site (covers all denominations) or the Canadian forum on CCF to see if someone has something like yours. If it's a variety or error, I would certify it through CCCS, not ICCS..... Brian doesn't certify them until they have appeared in formal publication or a price guide.
I'm into Vicky cent varieties, not silver, but do know a lot about varieties and their causes/resulting indications.
<< <i>Very nice, I really like the portraits used on the Canadian coins. >>
I feel like most if not all of the modern British Commonwealth issues use the same portrait. Anybody know why and/or when this started? It'd make my OFEC set a lot more interesting [visually] if so many of the obverses didn't look so similar.
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I was going to ask this:
could it be that the original planchet was already damaged before it was struck?
<< <i>could it be that the original planchet was already damaged before it was struck? >>
A planchet flaw is the best explanation I've heard so far. I just don't see any possible way it was this deeply gouge after being struck, while ending and resuming so perfectly at the multiple raised design/letters. It definitely runs "underneath", suggesting it was there before being struck.
Man, that 1895 cent is a blazin' beauty! 65 RD, maybe?
However, there are a few similarities I think to my coin.
except, mine looks like a DB in the planchet but, I believe , is struck on top of the DB.
yours is more even, while mine has the appearance of a normal DB...
it is actually evident 2 times.
through the 5 to the crown and through the 8 up.
on both coins, speculation as to how and what can go all over...
[URL=http://s627.photobucket.com/user/cdncoins/media/1858 5cent LD/18585Crev_zpse62b27a5.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s627.photobucket.com/user/cdncoins/media/1858 5cent LD/1858dbr_zpsd9efaa40.jpg.html][/URL]
I posted my pics on another forum and there seems to be a loose consensus that it's simply a scratch which was then worn off of the high points through circulation. This is possible, but I am still leaning towards a planchet defect. I think that there would still be some trace of a mark that deep, and/or an interruption in the line on the far side of the scratch direction (eg, after it speed bumps over the design), rather than it resuming right at the other side of the design. Also, there isn't all that much actual wear on this coin, VF-30ish detail, but I think it's EF-40 with a weak strike based on the lustre it has.
If these were, why are these scratches then not in the digits?
I can not see any wear marks on them...
I also believe that the DC in my coin was already in the planchet. again there are no marks on any digits also.
Bill, u are so right. we are in the same boat
where did you post this other stuff?
<< <i>Sure did look like a staple scratch to me, too, except where it seemingly runs underneath the C in CENTS.
Man, that 1895 cent is a blazin' beauty! 65 RD, maybe? >>
Missed this post earlier. Yes, it is indeed a 65 red. About 95% red, IMO.
there are ways of bring out more details.
1c....beautiful!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I still like the cent- no change in my opinion with that one
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
FYI
I believe the rare 1858/1558 mentioned concerns the 10 CENT Vicky, not the fish-scale.
doug
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
could you please indicate WHY you think it is a scratch? If it is a PMD scratch, someone would have wanted to make this scratch and that very precise.
On the image it most certainly looks like it was on the planchet before it was struck.
if this is the case, and assume it is a scratch, would it then be considered PMD or not?
probably not...
so, HOW would a TPG explain/ mark this? it was obviously ok with the Mint Master to release the coin into the publics hands.
PM dude, you might want to make a special note for Brian when you send it.
The line on the 20c most definitely isn't a scratch, so there is still hope for the 5 cent. Although the possible remnants of a scratch on the leaf and the rim probably mean it is indeed just a scratch. Still, an odd shape and that part that is definitely raised seems odd. Especially that I have two with such a similar look.
When I eventually submit to ICCS, I'll definitely make a note of the "large die break" and see what he says. I'm still about 20 coins short of my 100 coin bulk price. Maybe only 5-10 if I decided to cross grade some PCGS/NGC coins. So it shouldn't be long now!
<< <i>When I eventually submit to ICCS, I'll definitely make a note of the "large die break" and see what he says. I'm still about 20 coins short of my 100 coin bulk price. Maybe only 5-10 if I decided to cross grade some PCGS/NGC coins. So it shouldn't be long now! >>
Pokermandude.......call Brian at ICCS and ask if he'll give you the 100 coin rate even if you only have about 90 to submit.
In most cases, he'll do this for you. It's worth a try.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)