PCGS Reconsideration Service & My Half Cent (New Photos in Last Post)

Catbert · May 10, 2013 10:37AM

(Update - new professional photos from BRG Photography posted later in thread)

This is my new piece purchased at the early spring St. Louis show. I really like old copper, especially in such wonderful condition. Tremendous luster, well struck, and some very appealing natural toning not well represented in these pics. It was a consigned coin to Tom Reynolds and he agreed it was under graded. After some deliberation, negotiation, and more deliberation I decided to buy the coin thinking it worthy of a 65 grade versus the OGH 63.

My plan was to see if it would gold bean and if so, I'd leave it in the old holder preferring it to remain undisturbed. Alas, it green beaned to my surprise and disappointment. So, off it went to PCGS for their reconsideration service (minus said bean) and, if upgraded, to reholder in a new secure plus holder. I wanted to protect my investment and thought this was the right approach to take. My friend submitted it at the recent CSNS show.

Here are my very poor iPhone 4s pics. The reverse color is darker than these pics. Better photos will come down the road.

I'm happy to share that it is now in a 64+ holder and I'm very pleased! It will likely be resubmitted to CAC to see if they will bean it again - what do you think (again, based upon poor photos)? The serial number has not changed, so they will see it has been regraded. Either way, I like the coin and am content.

coinsarefun · May 10, 2013 10:43AM

Beautiful coin, I love old copper too

Congrat's on the upgrade! Did you get a trueview?

Catbert · May 10, 2013 10:47AM

<< Beautiful coin, I love old copper too

Congrat's on the upgrade! Did you get a trueview? >>

No, Stef, I didn't and probably should have. I'll eventually send it along with a few other coins to a pro.

coinsarefun · May 10, 2013 10:48AM

You gotta post that pic when you get it done, I bet it will chocolisious

acloco · May 10, 2013 12:04PM

Regardless if anybody collects this series or not, THIS coin, even with the small pictures, is undergraded at 63.

Beautiful. Stunning, actually.

Cannot wait to see better pictures.

Walkerguy21D · May 10, 2013 12:25PM

Looks like a primo half cent, from what I can see!

SoCalBigMark · May 10, 2013 12:30PM

Holy crap, gold bean, no drama...

blu62vette · May 10, 2013 12:30PM

I have one that has gone through, waiting for it back. Should look great now.

Broadstruck · May 10, 2013 1:47PM

<< I'm happy to share that it is now in a 64+ holder and I'm very pleased! It will likely be resubmitted to CAC to see if they will bean it again - what do you think (again, based upon poor photos)? The serial number has not changed, so they will see it has been regraded. Either way, I like the coin and am content. >>

Congrats on the upgrade...

Had it been mine I would have kept it in the early PCGS 2.0 holder as a MS63 that everyone thought was PQ for the grade and copper color stable for more then 25 years.

Wabbit2313 · May 10, 2013 1:54PM

Awesome. So much for CAC. If you left the bean on, it might have downgraded!

Catbert · May 10, 2013 1:59PM

<< Had it been mine I would have kept it in the early PCGS 2.0 holder as a MS63 that everyone thought was PQ for the grade and copper color stable for more then 25 years. >>

I understand this point. When it comes time to sell, I will whip out the OGH label (being returned to me) with the same serial number and the new owner can wistfully pine for the long gone plastic. Presumably, the coin has remained stable despite briefly experiencing 2013 air while transitioning from OGH to Secure Plus plastic.

BustHalfBrian · May 10, 2013 2:24PM

I think losing an OGH is justified by a 1 ½ point upgrade, but that's just me

Congrats, and good eye!

Anxiously waiting for new pics...

Broadstruck · May 10, 2013 2:34PM

<< I think losing an OGH is justified by a 1 ½ point upgrade >>

I guess your right and it will be fun to see if CAC now once again likes the OP's coin as a 64?

coinbuf · May 10, 2013 2:44PM

<< I think losing an OGH is justified by a 1 ½ point upgrade, but that's just me

<< 

From a strict monetary standpoint you may indeed be correct, but I think the point that you missed is how a new buyer might view the stability of the coin/color if left in the old holder. I dont know if you do or have collected copper coins but I as one who does when I look at at coin in a 20yr old holder I know that the chances are high that the coin has not been messed with for a very long time. When I look at copper coins in shinney new holders my first thought is "I wonder if that coin has been messed with"; mabey thats just me.

My comments are not a dig at the OP, its his coin and his to do with as he wishes and I respect his right to do just that.

Broadstruck · May 10, 2013 3:15PM

<< From a strict monetary standpoint you may indeed be correct, but I think the point that you missed is how a new buyer might view the stability of the coin/color if left in the old holder. I dont know if you do or have collected copper coins but I as one who does when I look at at coin in a 20yr old holder I know that the chances are high that the coin has not been messed with for a very long time. When I look at copper coins in shinney new holders my first thought is "I wonder if that coin has been messed with"; maybe that's just me.

My comments are not a dig at the OP, its his coin and his to do with as he wishes and I respect his right to do just that. >>

Really valid points coinbuf and I fully agree with you as I would have been more so willing to pay into the next grade in the OGH.

Again it has nothing to do with grading or stickers just stability comfort for long term ownership.

Sonorandesertrat · May 10, 2013 3:16PM

Being an EACer, I tend to remove coppers from slabs instead of worrying about getting them in slabs. Of course, should I decide to sell them in the future, I just might sing a different tune.
Regarding CAC approval of early coppers: it is all over the place. Personally, I don't think that CAC graders are good judges of market-graded early coppers---I have seen too many beaned coins
that I did not like for their grades. Ditto for coppers in top-tier slabs---grading seems quite inconsistent.

BTW, nice coin! And Tom Reynolds is a great guy to work with.

SeattleSlammer · May 10, 2013 3:51PM

Lovely looking coin. I'd rather own it undergraded in the OGH every time....especially copper. Of course CAC will bean it again...as has been demonstrated here many, many times before.

CoinRaritiesOnline · May 10, 2013 10:14PM

<< I understand this point. When it comes time to sell, I will whip out the OGH label (being returned to me) with the same serial number and the new owner can wistfully pine for the long gone plastic. >>

Old, unattached labels don't carry much weight, I'm afraid.

Catbert · May 10, 2013 10:21PM

Thanks for all the great comments in this thread. Better pics will be forthcoming and I'll post them here eventually.

Broadstruck · May 11, 2013 11:56PM

Catbert · May 11, 2013 11:58PM

Catbert eats kittens for snack food........

roadrunner · May 12, 2013 12:48AM

Future buyers as a rule won't be excited to know the coin once resided in a 63 ogh. That's just a little more reason why the coin shouldn't upgrade to MS65 in the future.
So let any potential buyers of the coin down the road see it in the MS64+ holder thinking it's always been a 64 (and probably should have been too). Some will see that + sign
and imagine a MS65 without too much effort. It will always fetch premium 64 money with or without a sticker. But I'd agree that a sticker on this coin now will help those
buyers of an MS65 upgrade to take the plunge. Too bad the serial number has not changed. I wonder if the previous 63 grade will affect CAC's current opinion or would they
even check to see if the coin has been through before? Since they give out so few gold beans, even on very worthy coins, I suspect they will sticker this again.

sniocsu · May 12, 2013 2:20AM

Very nice half cent

lcoopie · May 12, 2013 11:59PM

you are wrong

your photos are pretty good considering its from your phone

I'm guessing you could have had a much larger photo if you used the original high resolution photo
and cropped it
and edited it on the phone with your software of choice
and it would look like any other nice photo posted here

send me the original photos and I will repost if you like

dbcoin · May 13, 2013 12:25AM

Old, unattached labels don't carry much weight, I'm afraid.

Except in this case it it the same serial number so a potential buyer would take that under consideration

Price guide shows this coin going from $575 in value to $1350. You did well. Congrats.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 13, 2013 12:52AM

Seems to me, barring the loss of the "OGH" and such, that the "Reconsideration Service" is at least as valuable as Mr Reynold's opinion, if not more.

quickwing · May 13, 2013 1:51AM

What value would a bean have if it "greened" at 63? If it greens again CAC would have to be wrong to say it's average + at 63 & 64+? Some future buyer might not be able to grade coins like you and Tom, and buy the holder and the bean...but???

coinbuf · May 13, 2013 2:18AM

<< I wonder if the previous 63 grade will affect CAC's current opinion or would they
even check to see if the coin has been through before? >>

It is my understanding that CAC keeps a database of all the coins that have come through their system so thay will know that it already received a green bean at the 63 level; how thay will treat it at the new grade level I am uncertain about.

ricko · May 13, 2013 2:39AM

I prefer old copper without plastic..... just a personal preference... Plus, never was a grade collector...just a coin collector.

Cheers, RickO

dbcoin · May 13, 2013 3:28AM

It is my understanding that CAC keeps a database of all the coins that have come through their system so thay will know that it already received a green bean at the 63 level; how thay will treat it at the new grade level I am uncertain about.

It is a "fingerprint" technology like PCGS uses or do they just keep the cert #'s in a database? I believe it is just the cert #'s but I am not sure.

illini420 · May 13, 2013 5:32AM

Nice upgrade, congrats!

I disagree with some of the others and I do think keeping the old green label with the same cert number will add some value to the coin. The future buyer will know the coin was in plastic for many years and likely more stable. In fact, with this coin the buyer may even think the coin has improved over the years as it has been entombed in plastic

Might not add much to the value, but anytime you can provide background information and history to a buyer it's worth a little.

That said, I'm surprised they would return the old label to you at all. I would expect them to retain/destroy the old label so that it's not later returned to them sometime in the future to lower the population reports.

johnny9434 · May 13, 2013 5:33AM

congrats on the upgrade.

Catbert · June 5, 2013 4:34AM

<< I'm surprised they would return the old label to you at all. I would expect them to retain/destroy the old label so that it's not later returned to them sometime in the future to lower the population reports. >>

UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged).

Update #2 will include better pics so you can get an idea of the quality of my half cent! I do have the Secure Plus scanner pic, but don't want to post it here since it does not do the coin justice.

crypto79 · June 5, 2013 5:20AM

<< 

UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged).
>>

They probably just ran the cert and saw it was already in the system(as they do for all submissions) and restickered. The coin might not have received a 2nd review.

scubafuel · June 5, 2013 6:24AM

I doubt CAC just blindly re-stickers coins with the same cert # as that would be a serious lapse in trustworthiness.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 5, 2013 8:20AM

Here's the real test. Crack it out and solicit bids at shops and shows to see who offers you 64+ money for a raw coin.

meow

Wabbit2313 · June 5, 2013 9:21AM

<< 

<< 

UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged).
>>

They probably just ran the cert and saw it was already in the system(as they do for all submissions) and restickered. The coin might not have received a 2nd review. >>

Whatever! 3 blind mice song playing very loudly right now.

Peel those CAC stickers off your coins quick!

ColonelJessup · June 6, 2013 3:42AM

Every time a coin upgrades, a new angel gets its wings

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19Lyds · June 6, 2013 10:20AM

<< 

<< I'm surprised they would return the old label to you at all. I would expect them to retain/destroy the old label so that it's not later returned to them sometime in the future to lower the population reports. >>

UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged).

Update #2 will include better pics so you can get an idea of the quality of my half cent! I do have the Secure Plus scanner pic, but don't want to post it here since it does not do the coin justice. >>

No need to post since simply verifying the cert number shows the Secure Plus Scan. Folks can look for themselves.

sparky64 · June 6, 2013 11:48AM

I like the I-Phone pic better than the Secure Plus Scan.
Better idea of the luster in the original post.
Excellent copper by the way.

Catbert · June 15, 2013 9:42AM

Absolutely need to update since the Secure Plus scans are lousy. These are from my friend Brandon at BRG Numismatic Photography He does a great job!

And beyond the repaired die/repunching (?), note the ghost of an A to the left of the letter.

I really like this coin!

keyman64 · June 15, 2013 10:28AM

Nice!

terribleredmonster · June 15, 2013 10:38AM

I love the look of the fields on this coin. Both the color and the texture look amazing. The only problem (for me) with coins like this is that I always want to touch them.

GeorgeKellogg · June 15, 2013 12:06PM

<< UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged). >>

It is obvious to me that CAC blew this one.

If we accept that the green bean on the MS64+ holder is valid, CAC should have awarded a gold bean for the MS63 OGH (which was Catbert's preference in the first place).

golden · June 15, 2013 12:36PM

Very nice coin!

brg5658 · June 15, 2013 10:55PM

It was a joy imaging this coin. It has wonderful satiny surfaces, great luster, lovely blue subtle toning on the obverse and reverse, and has a lot of unique character in general. In hand, it's confusing to think how this coin was in an MS63 holder.

-Brandon

RedneckHB · June 16, 2013 1:41AM

<< Old, unattached labels don't carry much weight, I'm afraid.

Except in this case it it the same serial number so a potential buyer would take that under consideration

Price guide shows this coin going from $575 in value to $1350. You did well. Congrats. >>

I infer that the OP paid 65 money. So now 2 more grading fees/shipping. I hope he really likes the coin.

Catbert · June 16, 2013 2:14AM

<< I really like this coin! >>

EastonCollection · June 16, 2013 2:44AM

Boy o' boy - not a copper collector but this is a very nice coin and could convert me to collecting copper - who knows!

PS- OGH or new holders - - I figure by the time I sell in 20 years, the whole grading system will probably change!

tradedollarnut · June 16, 2013 3:33AM

<< 

<< UPDATE #1 - I did ask that the label be returned, but it was not (at least I have the slab pics). Secondly, CAC green beaned the coin once again (reminder - the slab serial number was unchanged). >>

It is obvious to me that CAC blew this one.

If we accept that the green bean on the MS64+ holder is valid, CAC should have awarded a gold bean for the MS63 OGH (which was Catbert's preference in the first place). >>

The only thing that's gonna get a gold bean is a knock your socks off undergrade. CAC blew nothing on this one. Remember that plastic can have positive or negative value - why would CAC fight the negative value on the label unless the coin looked and talked like a gem?

Zoins · June 16, 2013 3:37AM

<< 

<< Old, unattached labels don't carry much weight, I'm afraid.

Except in this case it it the same serial number so a potential buyer would take that under consideration

Price guide shows this coin going from $575 in value to $1350. You did well. Congrats. >>

I infer that the OP paid 65 money. So now 2 more grading fees/shipping. I hope he really likes the coin. >>

That was my read as well....

PCGS Reconsideration Service & My Half Cent (New Photos in Last Post)

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PCGS Reconsideration Service &amp; My Half Cent (New Photos in Last Post)

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PCGS Reconsideration Service & My Half Cent (New Photos in Last Post)