Theft Again: What Would You Do?

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 12:27AM

There's a company in missouri who has stolen content from me several times. Several times they seem to copy and paste my material, we take action and the material either disappears for a few months and then reapears or it is edited and it reapears somewhat different but like today, 40%+ of this "coin companies" website's content was written by me and belongs to me. This is the 3rd time it's happened and every time it happens we take a hit on the search engines so it's difficult to quantify the loss although I'm guessing a good lawyer can do something with that which if this doesn't stop then we'll have no choice but to take legal action. I've been quoted a $10,000.00 retainer to "get started" and while I'd like to rip them a new behind, I also know that 10K could quickly turn into 50K not to mention the amount of time wasted and other expenses involved with litigation. 40% of one of the pages of their website is stolen from my homeopage as of today.

They also show a link on their website to youtube so I clicked on it and I see a television station KOLR 10 is interviewing them and promoting them on their tv station.

What would you do?

CoinZip · May 7, 2013 12:34AM

Build a case against them with evidence, without them knowing if possible.

Record facts using photos and documents, its hard but you have to leave out your emotions and stick to just the facts.

You can also block their IP address from your server.

ModCrewman · May 7, 2013 12:35AM

I'd try a strongly worded letter from an attorney...see if that gets their attention more than just you contacting them to complain.

OldEastside · May 7, 2013 12:37AM

WOW, I don't know, do you have an estimated loss? and is it worth it to pursue and retain legal help?
I know it pisses you off but, again IDK.

Steve

guitarwes · May 7, 2013 12:37AM

Is your content on your website copyrighted? If so, personally contact said company and tell them that you can prove this is blantant copyright infringment and if it is not taken down immediately and stays taken down, then you will get your lawyer involved and it will cost them a lawsuit and alot of their time and money.

PerryHall · May 7, 2013 12:38AM

A good hacker would be cheaper than a lawyer.

SaorAlba · May 7, 2013 12:42AM

Private messaged.

originalisbest · May 7, 2013 12:55AM

Welcome to the internets. This happens to many companies out there.

lcoopie · May 7, 2013 12:57AM

what content are you talking about

if its photos just put a big watermark in them

mrpaseo · May 7, 2013 1:00AM

shorecoll · May 7, 2013 1:09AM

A lesson learned long ago...if you sue them for money damages, run a background check and see if they have assets. Depending on how well their assets are hidden, blocked, etc. it will raise the cost. You can "pierce a corporate veil", etc. in some cases, but it makes it more expensive.

I would pursue it, maybe set a budget you're willing to spend. If it costs you $20k and makes them burn $20k defending it, maybe they'll just stop.

ricko · May 7, 2013 1:14AM

I like Ray's solution.....

Cheers, RickO

derryb · May 7, 2013 1:16AM

I would post the truth about them at every website someone checking them out would see in search results. Before I deal with any on-line seller I always google their name.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 1:21AM

I just spoke to people at the television station in the area. I told them this is the 3rd time this has happened and frankly if they are so low as to steal and edit content from someones website it's a sure bet they're not doing the right thing locally. Wouldn't it be great if the next person they maybe shortchange turns out to be an investigative reporter? Like a coin dealer? You never know who is going to walk into your shop next.

Let the joust begin

yellowkid · May 7, 2013 1:36AM

Unfortunately "justice" can be expensive.

AMRC · May 7, 2013 1:39AM

I would start by paying the attorney to draft a letter, and then send that certified, and by carrier to their address threatening suit. Include in that "package" the incriminating evidence. Also, you should make darn sure anything that can be copyrighted or trademarked is done so. If they persist AND your attorney thinks you have a case. Just file a suit and watch them do a 180.

If it costs you $10,000, it is going to cost them at least that much as well. That will also weigh on them as much as it does you.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 2:17AM

<< I would start by paying the attorney to draft a letter, and then send that certified, and by carrier to their address threatening suit. Include in that "package" the incriminating evidence. Also, you should make darn sure anything that can be copyrighted or trademarked is done so. If they persist AND your attorney thinks you have a case. Just file a suit and watch them do a 180.

If it costs you $10,000, it is going to cost them at least that much as well. That will also weigh on them as much as it does you. >>

We will get our content removed for less than a couple hundred bucks. There are services that do that. Lawyer will only send the same service and then a letter. They remove the content. Then they put it up again with a little variation 3 months, 5 months later. For the life of me I don't understand why a coin shop in springfield mo wants to try convincing the local residents that they're me. Why they can't just tell people who they are in their own words.

So getting them to do a 180 is fairly easy. Frustrating a little as it's out of my hands now but it'll get done or the website will be taken down by their ISP who WILL play by the rules. But it takes time and we never know when the search engine spyders do their thing so there could be big damages that are difficult to assign a value to. If they are hosting their own website which I doubt then it gets a little more involved but do able. I want to go beyond this now. 3 times is enough for me to take a little time and think of how to stop this already.

Anyone live near springfield want to have a little fun and play innocent coin seller? Assuming the station director is ok with the idea there could be great fun happening in the area real soon.

I told the tv station I'm going to give someone some money. Now maybe the most efficient way is to hire counsel but I don't think so. Someone said collect evidence. I'm doing that. However would you agree that the types of scoundrels who would steal content from someone elses website more than once is in all likelyhood cheating others too? So forget the little hits we've been taking because of these people for a moment. IF they are dishonest across the board, how do we catch them at that and illuminate it to the masses?

I'd prefer to invest in that than a lawyer. Or do both. I've had it .

Broadstruck · May 7, 2013 2:36AM

<< Unfortunately "justice" can be expensive. >>

seanq · May 7, 2013 2:49AM

I was going to suggest that you go after them through their ISP but it sounds like you already know that. Maybe a note to their domain registrar could help, too, though I don't know what jurisdiction they have to pull a domain.

Sean Reynolds

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 3:10AM

I'm not going to leave a single stone unturned with this one. I just found a link on google from ENGLAND naming these people as thieves ( along with others ) for stealing their images. Should anyone I know want a copy of this link just pm me and I'll send it to you.

keyman64 · May 7, 2013 4:01AM

Start by contacting that TV Station? Different tv stations will do investigative reports etc...maybe they will take up the case if you provide enough documentation/prrof etc? This could be a cheap route to getting what you want if they take up your cause.

WillieBoyd2 · May 7, 2013 4:19AM

What is the other company stealing?
Images, text, HTML pages, coin descriptions?

ebaybuyer · May 7, 2013 4:25AM

cant you bill them for the content they are stealing ?

coindeuce · May 7, 2013 4:46AM

If they're stealing copyrighted content from multiple sources, it might interest the Feds enough to investigate a criminal conspiracy, which would carry a lot more clout than a civil suit.

Frankcoins · May 7, 2013 4:52AM

<< Is your content on your website copyrighted? >>

Copyright protection is automatic. The act of creating the work also creates the Copyright.

TPRC · May 7, 2013 4:56AM

It looks like your problem may be solved, at least in the short term, as I did a little searching and I cannot even find this company's website. So, congratulation on that front. In any event, the resolution is never simple and, unfortunately, I agree with your assessment on legal fees and costs, even assuming that you can prove, with ease, that the content taken is yours. If it persists, it may be worth contacting a qualified Missouri attorney to do an initial review of the matter for you in order to determine whether there exists any additional relief under Missouri law.

TPRC · May 7, 2013 5:01AM

<< If they're stealing copyrighted content from multiple sources, it might interest the Feds enough to investigate a criminal conspiracy, which would carry a lot more clout than a civil suit. >>

This thought crossed my mind as well. In addition, a State's attorney general's office could do something about it. The problem is that most of these complaints are just too small to register with the state and federal agencies as they have bigger fish to fry. Still, it's worth a try.

johnny9434 · May 7, 2013 5:19AM

<< A good hacker would be cheaper than a lawyer.

>>

lmao, yes indeeed

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 5:24AM

The website at this time comes up as page cannot be displayed. It was displaying fine this morning before I called the tv station.

Maybe that has something to do with it? I found another place in England that has called them out online along with other dealers who steal "images" from them. I mean these people have to steal pictures of bullion coins too?

I think an investigative report will help save that television stations credibility as there is definitely a video on youtube that interviews them. When I asked the tv station about that they told me that they automatically grant an on tv interview to anyone who signs a contract and then told me some things that maybe I shouldn't repeat ( yet

) here.

Frank is correct, everything is automatically copyrighted.

northcoin · May 7, 2013 5:49AM

<< 

<< Is your content on your website copyrighted? >>

Copyright protection is automatic. The act of creating the work also creates the Copyright. >>

I have heard that too, but have to assume there are some huge exceptions. Would welcome hearing more.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 6:04AM

<< 

<< 

<< Is your content on your website copyrighted? >>

Copyright protection is automatic. The act of creating the work also creates the Copyright. >>

I have heard that too, but have to assume there are some huge exceptions. Would welcome hearing more. >>

Boy oh boy I wish I could remember everything I was told by an attorney on that issue but what I do know is content is verifiable thru the wayback machine. A once upon a time large california company took an e-book on my website that was written by a very well known coin collector, a tax attorney and myself and they not only took it for themselves but when my representatives approached them they claimed that it belonged to them ( they were within hours of losing their entire website ) Wayback machine proved to the ISP whose content that was and they quickly complied.

Wayback Machine is your friend unless you are the offender

P.S. The offending website from today is now showing "page cannot be displayed". Coincidence?

Nope, now back up and my content is plain as day.

TPRC · May 7, 2013 6:08AM

I'm not an intellectual property lawyer but I'll take a stab at it. When you create something, you have a common law right to the intellectual property that you have created. Frank is correct that the act of creating it is the copyright. However, federal legislation provides for registration of that intellectual property, to provide notice to the world that you have created it. So, it is generally a good idea to register your copyright rights, in order to provide notice to others that it is yours, but that does not diminish your common law right to your intellectual property.

derryb · May 7, 2013 6:13AM

<< I would post the truth about them at every website someone checking them out would see in search results. Before I deal with any on-line seller I always google their name. >>

Set up a website like these guys did to post info about the theft of their copyrighted pictures

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 6:14AM

<< 

<< I would post the truth about them at every website someone checking them out would see in search results. Before I deal with any on-line seller I always google their name. >>

Set up a website like these guys did to post info about the theft of their copyrighted pictures >>

Actually they already have a complaint against this ozark company as well on the same website!

http://goldcopyright.co.uk/copyright-abuse/514/

I just spoke with someone there. The person I spoke to said " well I don't know anything about it this is the first I've heard of it" and then after I told him if I have to spend $$ with lawyers so will he, said " I can't get it taken down in 24 hours".

I think I'm done here. I emailed an attorney and if he knows how to deal with these people I'll write him a check and if not I'll hopefuly find a lawyer to sue them now. This is 3 times in less than 6 months and we can show them doing it to other dealer as well. Surely a good attorney can do something with this.

tlbrown · May 7, 2013 6:18AM

"Maybe that has something to do with it? I found another place in England that has called them out online along with other dealers who steal "images" from them. I mean these people have to steal pictures of bullion coins too? "

Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you watermarked your images? There are some good ones out there that are hard to clone out in photoshop, and don't distract to much from the image. It should deter some but not all. Good luck.

HalfStrike · May 7, 2013 6:50AM

You have to give written notice to the ISP, I did a search and that oz site is hosted in San Jose, CA. Not sure if the servers are their but they probably are.

coindeuce · May 7, 2013 6:52AM

Maybe this is a chance for ripoffreport.com to do some good for a change ?

derryb · May 7, 2013 6:59AM

<< "Maybe that has something to do with it? I found another place in England that has called them out online along with other dealers who steal "images" from them. I mean these people have to steal pictures of bullion coins too? "

Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you watermarked your images? There are some good ones out there that are hard to clone out in photoshop, and don't distract to much from the image. It should deter some but not all. Good luck. >>

If you look at the England website concerning another case of accused picture theft, it appears the outfit using the pictures added their watermark to the photos after borrowing them. Now that's unexcusable.

Watermarking images before posting on your website should prevent others from using them and most photo software provides this feature. Even shareware Piccaso offers watermarking.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 7:01AM

It wasn't my images that were stolen. It's my content that I personally wrote which is easily provable.

derryb · May 7, 2013 7:26AM

A dozen or so emails like this might get their attention:

"I noticed a similarity between some of your pictures and some of your descriptions and those on other websites. Please let me know if you are using other seller's photos and descriptions so I can make an informed decision of where I want to make my purchase. I prefer to make my on-line purchases from someone I can trust."

<< It wasn't my images that were stolen. It's my content that I personally wrote which is easily provable. >>

Include some profanity.

daOnlyBG · May 7, 2013 7:38AM

(duplicate post, sorry)

daOnlyBG · May 7, 2013 7:38AM

<< Maybe this is a chance for ripoffreport.com to do some good for a change ? >>

Nah. People are taking ripoffreport.com a bit less serious, as too many good and honest businessmen have found their way on there.

<< " I can't get it taken down in 24 hours". >>

If it were my website, I could get it taken down in 24 seconds. For God's sake, Facebook takes only a couple hours to do maintenance on its entire system, with billions of pages within the domain. These guys need 24 hours to change a paragraph or two? Please..

Edited to add: justice isn't necessarily expensive- it's your due process that isn't cheap. In my opinion, try being reasonable with them, as you seem to have already done. If they don't shape up, take yourself off their radar for a little bit- perhaps a month or two? In this time, devise plans to give this firm as much hell as possible. If you're going to go outside the legal confines, do it only with anonymous hackers. People who take advantage of others deserve the shaft. If nothing you do works, then opt for a lawyer- but prepare to spend big.

Also, a $10,000 retainer seems a bit too much. Something tells me you can get an excellent attorney for a small fraction of that price.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 7:41AM

Really?

RGJohn · May 7, 2013 7:42AM

<< There's a company in missouri who has stolen content from me several times. Several times they seem to copy and paste my material, we take action and the material either disappears for a few months and then reapears or it is edited and it reapears somewhat different but like today, 40%+ of this "coin companies" website's content was written by me and belongs to me. This is the 3rd time it's happened and every time it happens we take a hit on the search engines so it's difficult to quantify the loss although I'm guessing a good lawyer can do something with that which if this doesn't stop then we'll have no choice but to take legal action. I've been quoted a $10,000.00 retainer to "get started" and while I'd like to rip them a new behind, I also know that 10K could quickly turn into 50K not to mention the amount of time wasted and other expenses involved with litigation. 40% of one of the pages of their website is stolen from my homeopage as of today.

They also show a link on their website to youtube so I clicked on it and I see a television station KOLR 10 is interviewing them and promoting them on their tv station.

What would you do? >>

#1. I'd be angry like heck (or even worse)
2. I'd want to right this wrong.
3. I'd be willing to spend anything (yes you read that correctly ANYTHING!!!) to end this and prevent further incidents.
4. After the first $100 or $200 K, I would (albeit reluctantly) begin to re-think my options.
-----
YOU have the money-making business. They are out to steal. Being thieves, they have little or nothing to lose.
YOU on the other hand..... Do have something to lose.
When confounded/confronted/forced-to-deal-with-it in an analogous situation, I was told that I could not win a fight in our judical system if my opponents were without assets as ultimately the only resolution the courts offer is monetary. Even if you 'win', if you cannot attach and seize their assets (assuming they have any) you will gain nothing.
------
My suggestion therefor cannot be to become involved in a system where you are from the get-go the sucker.
----
Try whatever suits your temperament. Ignore them. Mock them. Differentiate yourself from them. Mark your photos with your trademarks. Show how you are real and they are not. How you are different. Explain to the search engines that they are enabling plagiarism. But stay the heck out of the judicial system as you are the only party bringing in the geetus and you shall be the one to pay for the party they cater.

FullCameo · May 7, 2013 8:01AM

That's what I was thinking.

Send them a bill each month.

derryb · May 7, 2013 8:06AM

<< That's what I was thinking.

Send them a bill each month. >>

laugh if you will, but this could be your answer. Send them notice that future uses of your material will be for a fee. Document/save each unauthorized use and send a bill. After they fail to pay a few bills hit them up in their local small claims court. Be prepared to prove their use of your material.

mrearlygold · May 7, 2013 8:59AM

<< 

<< That's what I was thinking.

Send them a bill each month. >>

laugh if you will, but this could be your answer. Send them notice that future uses of your material will be for a fee. Document/save each unauthorized use and send a bill. After they fail to pay a few bills hit them up in their local small claims court. Be prepared to prove their use of your material. >>

Well, I've decided to deploy some assets. Let's find out all there is to find out about these people. Everything and I mean everythang.

mrearlygold · May 8, 2013 10:42PM

Update: Our friends at the "take em down" service have done their job again and the content has been removed. Since this is not the first time I am still retaining counsel to advise these people that if it happens again to be prepared to pay lots and lots of money to lawyers to defend themselves in possibly Federal court in Ft Myers. Have a nice day now.

Theft Again: What Would You Do?

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