Can anyone get a message to Jim Leyland?
MintMoondog
Posts: 969 ✭
Please! Someone tell this historically over-rated game manager that spring training is over. For g*ds sakes, it is possible for starting pitchers who are veterans to go past 5 innings in the early part of the season, and you don't have to go 5 and 6 deep into your bullpen during a close game looking for the one guy who is off that day. Just because you are a wheezing chain smoker doesn't mean your players are as tired as you are! This guy was out-managed year after year in Pittsburg, lucked into one WS in Florida, and has cost the Tigers untold number of games and potential WS. He is a decent guy but I hate him more than any manager/coach in any professional sport I have watched in 40 plus years. Its so bad I almost want to quit collecting baseball-cards...well not quite that bad yet...
75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!
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<< <i>I can actually pass that on for you if you want. I know his neighbor lol >>
I really wish there would be something I could say to make him manage better but nope - I wonder who are the top managers in the game? I wish we could get Tony out of retirement
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The true blame, however, falls on Dave Dombrowski. Despite drafting a ton of pitching in his 12 years as GM, they haven't been able to develop even one reliable major-league relief pitcher. And his drafting and development of hitters is even more pathetic!
<< <i>How quickly people forget 1989-2005..... >>
Actually, I am not sure the end result of the last 7 years would have been much different than those years if Mike Ilitch (in his upper years) hadn't decided to write Dombrowski a blank check every year AND the Tigers hadn't had the fortune of being moved to a easy division full of budget-minded owners.
<< <i>How quickly people forget 1989-2005..... >>
Been watching the Tigers since 1974. At least when the team was bad, you knew it. I just don't understand why every other teams' starters are ready to go on day 1 and stretch to 7+ innings and why Leyland has decided 2 veteran starters with no history of arm trouble cant pitch past the 5th (even when under 100 pitches and having not given up a single run). Also, why does he use the 2 bullpen arms who both have absolutely filthy pitches (Alberquerque..and Villareal) in the 6th and 7th and use a lefty specialist Coke who had righties hit over .400 last year against him in the 9th with men on base and a righty and a switch-hitter due...but what do I know.
<< <i>So, I shouldn't try to sell you this?
haha, I do believe that Leyland is breaking me...
<< <i>
<< <i>How quickly people forget 1989-2005..... >>
Actually, I am not sure the end result of the last 7 years would have been much different than those years if Mike Ilitch (in his upper years) hadn't decided to write Dombrowski a blank check every year AND the Tigers hadn't had the fortune of being moved to a easy division full of budget-minded owners. >>
The Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox have had blank checks for years....and all we ever heard about is what great Managers Joe Torre and Mike Scioscia were....not mention the Red Sox canned who I think was actually a really good manager in Francona (and who I wanted the Tigers to hire if Leyland retired after last year)...and replaced him with freaking Bobby Valentine. That worked out well.
I'm not a Leyland apologist...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's guided them to the WS twice in the last 7 seasons. His "managing" was certainly not the reason they got spanked in both 2006 and 2012. He got them to the show...and the hitters failed to show up both times.
I can't argue with DD's failure in drafting of relief pitchers....Zumaya was the best of the bunch and his arm was not long for this world. Ryan Perry...uggh. Don't get me started. However, I like what's going on with Villarreal...and he picked up Alburquerque off the scrap heap for a song.
What I will give Dombrowski is that he's had a pretty good ability to get value out of the prospects he's missed on. If he waits one more year on Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Jacob Turner, Gorkys Hernandez, et al...he likely doesn't get the types of players he's gotten in return. I wouldn't want any of those guys back...would you?
What I also notice about Tigers fans is that they ONLY watch the Tigers...and think this stuff is somehow unique to Detroit. Go on any other teams site or local paper and read the comments. You can substitute Tigers with any given team and you'd think you're reading the Freep forum.
T206 Set - 300/524
<< <i>You guys can have Dusty Baker if you want.
EXACTLY!
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<< <i>
<< <i>How quickly people forget 1989-2005..... >>
Actually, I am not sure the end result of the last 7 years would have been much different than those years if Mike Ilitch (in his upper years) hadn't decided to write Dombrowski a blank check every year AND the Tigers hadn't had the fortune of being moved to a easy division full of budget-minded owners. >>
The Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox have had blank checks for years....and all we ever heard about is what great Managers Joe Torre and Mike Scioscia were....not mention the Red Sox canned who I think was actually a really good manager in Francona (and who I wanted the Tigers to hire if Leyland retired after last year)...and replaced him with freaking Bobby Valentine. That worked out well.
I'm not a Leyland apologist...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's guided them to the WS twice in the last 7 seasons. His "managing" was certainly not the reason they got spanked in both 2006 and 2012. He got them to the show...and the hitters failed to show up both times.
I can't argue with DD's failure in drafting of relief pitchers....Zumaya was the best of the bunch and his arm was not long for this world. Ryan Perry...uggh. Don't get me started. However, I like what's going on with Villarreal...and he picked up Alburquerque off the scrap heap for a song.
What I will give Dombrowski is that he's had a pretty good ability to get value out of the prospects he's missed on. If he waits one more year on Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Jacob Turner, Gorkys Hernandez, et al...he likely doesn't get the types of players he's gotten in return. I wouldn't want any of those guys back...would you?
What I also notice about Tigers fans is that they ONLY watch the Tigers...and think this stuff is somehow unique to Detroit. Go on any other teams site or local paper and read the comments. You can substitute Tigers with any given team and you'd think you're reading the Freep forum. >>
All well said, especially the part about Leyland being a player's manager. I think this is the only managerial trait of his that is "above average". I will always believe, however, that 2006 fell into his lap, and that a guy like Trammell could have been just as successful as Leyland if he would have started managing in 2006. Leyland is stubborn and I think at times he does things just because he can. Let's face it, managing in the American League is like playing Euchre: there are obvious moves and anything that deviates from the obvious has a high chance of screwing things up. While I agree with you about other managers being similar in the way they handle their bullpens (at some level), I think Leyland goes beyond that with his bullpen and especially with his lineup. For example, can you name the last perennial playoff team that platooned their #2 hitter? You're either good enough to bat #2 against everyone, or you're not good enough to bat #2 ever, it's that simple. Very few people realize that Leyland just recently bumped his career managerial record to over .500. He's simply not that good strategically. He is good with the players for sure, although I'm not sure how the starting pitchers put up with him sometimes.
<< <i>
<< <i>You guys can have Dusty Baker if you want.
EXACTLY! >>
Leyland is singularly the most over-rated manager in my lifetime. Hands-down. He talks a good game, positioned himself with 3 strong clubs (talent-wise) and has been out-managed and exposed come play-off time. His lifetime career win percentage is ALMOST exactly .500. This is after managing the Bonds/Bonilla pirates, the champion Marlins and the Tigers since 2005! That is not opinion. However IMHO His game management today was a joke. You can apologize for him - but can you then justify the pitching moves? Why is Coke the closer where righties bat over .400 against him? Please explain to this obviously unsophisticated fan your wisdom on today's game?
BTW I think highly of Dombrowski, his only flaw has been giving exceedingly long and lucrative contracts to suspect players based on low samples...but he has definitely increased the talent on the team. He has just been too loyal to Leyland. I would have loved to seen Francona last year.
(1) When the weather is cold, you can almost guarantee that the Tigers won't score more than 2 or 3 runs, yet Dombrowski continues to build his nearly $100 million offense the same way and Leyland continues to run it the same way. Newsflash: If your goal is to win the World Series, you should know that the weather is cold during the playoff months.
(2) Phil Coke is nothing more than a lefty-lefty specialist, yet Dombrowski and Leyland believe he is.
<< <i>
I'm not a Leyland apologist...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's guided them to the WS twice in the last 7 seasons. His "managing" was certainly not the reason they got spanked in both 2006 and 2012. He got them to the show...and the hitters failed to show up both times. >>
So according to your logic...Leyland gets all the credit for taking the team to the WS twice but should not get any of the blame for them embarrassing themselves (and yes both series were a total embarrassment) each time...but they did win 1 game against the Cardinals and the Giants. Sheesh
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You guys can have Dusty Baker if you want.
EXACTLY! >>
Leyland is singularly the most over-rated manager in my lifetime. Hands-down. He talks a good game, positioned himself with 3 strong clubs (talent-wise) and has been out-managed and exposed come play-off time. His lifetime career win percentage is ALMOST exactly .500. This is after managing the Bonds/Bonilla pirates, the champion Marlins and the Tigers since 2005! That is not opinion. However IMHO His game management today was a joke. You can apologize for him - but can you then justify the pitching moves? Why is Coke the closer where righties bat over .400 against him? Please explain to this obviously unsophisticated fan your wisdom on today's game?
BTW I think highly of Dombrowski, his only flaw has been giving exceedingly long and lucrative contracts to suspect players based on low samples...but he has definitely increased the talent on the team. He has just been too loyal to Leyland. I would have loved to seen Francona last year. >>
I can't defend his managment of the bullpen. I wasn't attempting to. It's also 2 games into the season where "most" thought Rondon would at least be in there now and see where things go from there. I personally think AA should be given a chance to close based on what I've seen of him. But for whatever reason...they think he can't pitch on consecutive days. No clue what that means...considering its not a guarantee your going to have to use your closer 7 days a week.
I also think Leyland did a pretty good job with the pen in the playoffs last year...it was a tough (and right move) to bench Valverde in the most critical games of the year. I never thought Valverde was as good as his numbers...but for God sakes...the guy did go 49/49 in 2011...its wasn't pretty...but facts are facts. And most teams would take that.
I agree 100% that Coke should not the the closer at this point...in fact...he'd probably be my 4th choice...behind Alburquerque, Villarreal, and Benoit.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I'm not a Leyland apologist...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's guided them to the WS twice in the last 7 seasons. His "managing" was certainly not the reason they got spanked in both 2006 and 2012. He got them to the show...and the hitters failed to show up both times. >>
So according to your logic...Leyland gets all the credit for taking the team to the WS twice but should not get any of the blame for them embarrassing themselves (and yes both series were a total embarrassment) each time...but they did win 1 game against the Cardinals and the Giants. Sheesh >>
I never said he gets all the credit...I just can't lay the lions share of the blame on him for what happened the last two times they were in the World Series. I don't think he got "outmanaged" in either case.
Christ the baseball world puts Bobby Cox on pedestal every chance they get...no one failed more than him when it really counted.
<< <i> I agree 100% that Coke should not the the closer at this point...in fact...he'd probably be my 4th choice...behind Alburquerque, Villarreal, and Benoit. >>
We agree on almost everything, now consider this. We both see that Alburquerque, Villarreal, and Benoit (Dotel for that matter) ALL have much stronger stuff that Coke, but according to Leyland Coke is his man...just like Rayburn, just like Inge, and we can go on. I hate to say this but Leyland's pets all have one thing in common.
I just want Ilich to win a world series before he dies for everything he has done for Detroit and I am just entirely frustrated by the snake-oil Leyland has sold the team. He is the anti-thesis of WAR, there should be a new category for managers W'sF'edUp WFU
<< <i>
<< <i> I agree 100% that Coke should not the the closer at this point...in fact...he'd probably be my 4th choice...behind Alburquerque, Villarreal, and Benoit. >>
We agree on almost everything, now consider this. We both see that Alburquerque, Villarreal, and Benoit (Dotel for that matter) ALL have much stronger stuff that Coke, but according to Leyland Coke is his man...just like Rayburn, just like Inge, and we can go on. I hate to say this but Leyland's pets all have one thing in common.
I just want Ilich to win a world series before he dies for everything he has done for Detroit and I am just entirely frustrated by the snake-oil Leyland has sold the team. He is the anti-thesis of WAR, there should be a new category for managers W'sF'edUp WFU >>
I can't argue with any of what you just wrote. Oh...and I couldn't agree more on your observation of the "pets". Rayburn and Inge...puke. My two least favorite Tigers since Shane Halter and CJ Nitkowski. To add to that theory...he took Don Kelly on the roster over Quintin Berry. Seriously???
<< <i>Bobby Valentine was the manager of my beloved Red Sox last year. While I feel your pain, there is topping Bobby V in the category of worst manager EVER. Case closed. >>
Agreed, Valentine might be one of the worst...but I stick to my contention that Leyland is the most over-rated. If you follow the Detroit newspapers this guy is the Phil Jackson of the major leagues and they continually patronize life-long baseball fans for questioning his moves. At least the press in Boston and NY will criticize their own team.
IMF
<< <i>...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's g
What I will give Dombrowski is that he's had a pretty good ability to get value out of the prospects he's missed on. If he waits one more year on Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Jacob Turner, Gorkys Hernandez, et al...he likely doesn't get the types of players he's gotten in return. I wouldn't want any of those guys back...would you?
. >>
Of course the players love playing for him. Leyland never asks his hitters to do anything but what they love to do...which is swing for the fences. If you go up there and swing at the first pitch and pop it up...Leyland won't say a thing. If you go up to the plate and have a pis-poor at bat and swing for the fences on a pitch in the dirt and strand yet another runner...oh well...business as usual.
And you are going to complement Dombrowksi for not having a clue on how to draft or develop players but dumping them by being in the right place at the right time for one of the Marlins regular fire sales?
Keep defending those 2 clowns and then sit back and enjoy yet another frustrating and under-achieving season.
Just for the record Sanchez had thrown 95 pitches in those 5 innings. I've never liked Leyland myself but 90-100 seems to be about average for effective starters in their first game this year except for Darvich.
A good closer is what the Tigers need most.
<< <i>This will boil your blood, Henry....Don Kelly is playing LF and batting 6th today. >>
Lucky he was spelling Dirks, if he was spelling Hunter he would have been batting 2nd. Another great game by the fired up Tigers
<< <i>"Please! Someone tell this historically over-rated game manager that spring training is over. For g*ds sakes, it is possible for starting pitchers who are veterans to go past 5 innings in the early part of the season"
Just for the record Sanchez had thrown 95 pitches in those 5 innings. I've never liked Leyland myself but 90-100 seems to be about average for effective starters in their first game this year except for Darvich.
A good closer is what the Tigers need most. >>
Good observation. Let's look at today's 11 games. Of the 22 starting pitchers: 9 went 5 innings, 10 went 6 innings, 1 went 7 and 2 went 8. You are correct that the pitch-counts were kept to around 100 and less. So it does not seem a stretch to have Sanchez go 1 more inning, then have to rely on your bullpen for 3 not 4 innings. Also, the more experienced pitchers went 6 while the younger and scored upon pitchers went 5. Doesnt seem a major difference but it is over the course of a 162 game season.
Further, Leyland lets Benoit pitch to the first batter in the 9th due to righty-lefty differences - which basically signals that Coke is situational. However, after Coke gives up a single and then faces another righty - Leyland leaves him in. Let's say he plays the percentages and brings in Dotel to face the righty and Dotel gives up the sac to tie the game. Now you are in extra innings and there is almost nothing left in your bullpen.
So why not let Sanchez go 6 - the guy was lights out and in a groove. Many of the 95 were in the first inning. He could have breezed through the sixth and if there was trouble you bring the bullpen in anyway.
Again, I am not trying to be overly-nitpicky but I have watched this guy closely for 7 years and I could go back and name hundreds of inconsistent decisions where he basically says he went on instinct and then he makes hundreds of other decisions playing by "the book" which most often is based on low numbers statistically. He is just a very mediocre and undisciplined game manager IMHO.
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<< <i>
<< <i>...but thinking back to all of those years with Larry Parish, Garner, Pujols, Trammell, et al...where there was turmoil in the clubhouse consistently...I'll take what's been going on since he's been here. Players love to play for him...and that's a fact. He's g
What I will give Dombrowski is that he's had a pretty good ability to get value out of the prospects he's missed on. If he waits one more year on Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Jacob Turner, Gorkys Hernandez, et al...he likely doesn't get the types of players he's gotten in return. I wouldn't want any of those guys back...would you?
. >>
Of course the players love playing for him. Leyland never asks his hitters to do anything but what they love to do...which is swing for the fences. If you go up there and swing at the first pitch and pop it up...Leyland won't say a thing. If you go up to the plate and have a pis-poor at bat and swing for the fences on a pitch in the dirt and strand yet another runner...oh well...business as usual.
And you are going to complement Dombrowksi for not having a clue on how to draft or develop players but dumping them by being in the right place at the right time for one of the Marlins regular fire sales?
Keep defending those 2 clowns and then sit back and enjoy yet another frustrating and under-achieving season. >>
Yep....I am going to compliment him on that. And as for the draft...he did pick Verlander. They developed Granderson. He then traded Granderson for Scherzer and Austin Jackson (I'd do that trade again in a heartbeat...and he wasn't fleecing the Marlins) They drafted a left handed hitting starting catcher in the 5th round.
And again...I'll take another "frustrating season" of going to the playoffs. I'm 39 and had season tickets from 1996-2005. Please don't lecture me on frustrating.
<< <i>Star pitchers are like commodities these days...a team is not going to extend a pitcher they have a serious investment in for fear of injury. If you are 90+ pitches when you finish your inning, it don't matter if it's the 5th or the 7th--you're coming out. Look no further at what washington did last year with Strasberg to confirm the above. Forget about opening day--that was the Playoffs! >>
Well said...no Manager is trotting out his starting pitcher to start he sixth inning already at 95 pitches.
Also Detroit has to think they'll be in contention come October and hopefully for them playing past 162. Let's make sure we burn up our pitchers the first week of the season.
Someone mentioned Torii Hunter getting on base, but "being chained by Leyland." You obviously know that Leyland specifically had the stop sign on for the runner. Also Torii hasn't had double digit steals since 2009. And in fact 2 of the past 3 seasons he's been thrown out more times than bags swiped. So him not running, either Leyland telling him not to or Torii not going on his own was probably the smart move. You also have 2 pretty good hitters in Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder that follow him (I'm assuming Torii is batting 2nd?) so lets make an out on the basepaths when there is a good chance that one of those 2 guys is going to hit the ball hard somewhere and be able to drive him in.
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<< <i>And again...I'll take another "frustrating season" of going to the playoffs. I'm 39 and had season tickets from 1996-2005. Please don't lecture me on frustrating. >>
It really is time to re-adjust the way you evaluate the job that Leyland and Dombrowski have done. Saying they are doing a better job than Randy Smith and co. was fine for several years after Smith left. But Smith has been gone for 12 years now...given that along with the current payroll, it really is time to move on from that perspective. The farm system blows and the major league team is littered with guys that have terrible plate-discipline and swing for the fences regardless of the weather conditions or the game situation. If you can't admit that that makes for frustrating baseball to watch, then you are blind. And the reason this won't change is that the organization is poisoned with loyalty from top to bottom. Beginning with Mike Ilitch being loyal to Dombrowski and him to Leyland and him to his players. This is also evident in the number of players this team has hung onto too long...whether it be Gary Sheffield, Todd Jones, Magglio Ordonez, Pudge, Brandon Inge, Carlos Guillen, Don Kelly, and now Valverde. And if it is not loyalty that kept these guys around too long, then it is out of pure incompetence to be able to find somebody better.
And as far as the team making the playoffs, it again has more to do with the other teams and owners they are fortunate enough to be competing against in the A.L. Central than it does the job Dombrowski and Leyland have done. And the Tigers have proven that they can beat only 2 teams in a playoff matchup - Oakland and the Yankees. The A's have a payroll of about 1/3 that of the Tigers and the Yankees are much like the Tigers in that they are built to be too home run dependent. Every other team the Tigers have faced in the playoffs have embarrassed the Tigers.
<< <i>It really is time to re-adjust the way you evaluate the job that Leyland and Dombrowski have done. >>
To be clear. Just so I'm clear. Again need a clairification here...
You played in the final game of the season last year and you're complaining about the job of your front office? 'Swinging' for the fences.' You realize your team had the 8th best Slugging in baseball last year, and the 7th best OPS. Their On Base was actually the reason they were that high - they were third in baseball. Clearly they are doing more than waiting for a 3 run home run. They are getting on base.
You've been to the World Series in 2006, Lost the ALCS in 2011, and made another trip to the World Series in 2012. I honestly can't fathom what the issue is. If you want to complain that IF defense is what is bad (although it didn't burn you last year).
Oh and you just signed Verlander through the next Presidential Term.
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Want a stat? In 2012, when you look at the stat of when a Tiger batted with a runner on third with less than 2 outs and the % of runs scored vs opportunity, the Tigers were 12th worst out of 13 A.L. teams. Is that not an indictment on how their offense is built and does it not validate my issues and frustrations with the offense and with the organization? By the way, which team ranked best in this stat? The SF Giants, who swept the Tigers in the World Series.
<< <i>Do you watch the Tigers?? You can look at overall numbers all you want and they only show what happens over a full season...they don't show the consistency. When the weather is warm, the Tigers 'swing for the fences' approach works great and the offense lights up the scoreboard. When it is cold, those same swings result in strikeouts and flyouts and the offense can't do a thing to manufacture a run. And again, the Tigers likely would not have made the playoffs in the past 6 years if they weren't in the weakest division in the A.L.
Want a stat? In 2012, when you look at the stat of when a Tiger batted with a runner on third with less than 2 outs and the % of runs scored vs opportunity, the Tigers were 12th worst out of 13 A.L. teams. Is that not an indictment on how their offense is built and does it not validate my issues with the organization? >>
To answer your first question no I do not unless they are playing the Rangers. They won 88 games last year, thats not a huge drop off from what New York and Oakland (who most people feel overachieved) and the 2 Wild Card winners. We are talking 5 or 6 games over the course of 162. 3% of their games were a run here or run there, or luck has you at the same record as those guys.
You're not going to like what I'm about say next regarding hitting with RISP. That is nothing more than luck and opportunity. What you're implying and what that stat implies is that some players are better with a runner on 2nd or 3rd vs. runner on 1st or no runners and how many outs are on the scoreboard. Deeper that means that the player steps up surveys the situation and says there is a runner on 1st with 2 outs I can make an out here. Or wow we have a guy on 3rd with nobody out I gotta get a hit. Do you think players try harder based on how many runners are on base? That makes no sense. If a player puts up a slash line of .300/.400/.500 he's probably going to do that or at least close to that in all situations. Sure there are outliers, some guys hit better on the road vs. home which may be a function of the ballpark the play in. Some guys frankly get lucky. Look at Batting Average on Balls in Play (BABIP) it's completely random.
Fans tend to focus on the things like BA w/RISP because you squandered an opportunity for runs and that's obviously depressing to watch. I certainly do as well. But that is not a function of skill, but rather luck and opportunity. And yes its a let down when the don't score and probably a bigger let down when it happens like it did for Detroit last year - 12th worst. But I still fail to see how that's Leyland's or the GM's fault?
That to me is why slugging and on base are the biggest tellers of a players worth. It's a lot tougher to string 3 singles together and score than a double and a single or a walk and home run.
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Just a few thoughts.
1. I love your team's manager - highly under-rated.
2. I don't think that the general consensus here is that of spoiled whiners - but my original rant is that while Washington seems to get the most out of his players, Leyland gets the least. The team since 2006 has been loaded, so of course they will do well. I personally think Dombrowski has done a good job, but of course one can criticize several of his moves - my problem with him has been more his contracts (Easley, Inge, D. Willis). He is light years better than the previous GM Randy Smith who was a clown.
<< <i>Yes, when a player's BABIP in a given season is uncharacteristically different than a career pattern >>
I think you missing my point. There is no pattern to this. It goes up and down. There is no rhyme or reason. So you'd rather have the guy that hits .250/.315/.595 but somehow miraculously and uncharacteristically has hit .333/.400/.650 over a far fewer number of at bats with runners in scoring position vs a guy that hits .315/.400/.600 but has the reverse happen with RISP.
I don't believe in situational hitting.
<< <i>repeatedly failing in situations like runner on 3rd with less than two out or runner on second with no outs >>
Again I think your missing my point. There is no skill in accomplishing this. Can you explain to me how factors outside the hitters control - where runners are and the number of outs affect his at bat and the predicted outcome based on what the hitter's done over the course of his career?
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<< <i> Yep....I am going to compliment him on that. And as for the draft...he did pick Verlander. They developed Granderson. He then traded Granderson for Scherzer and Austin Jackson (I'd do that trade again in a heartbeat...and he wasn't fleecing the Marlins) They drafted a left handed hitting starting catcher in the 5th round.
And again...I'll take another "frustrating season" of going to the playoffs. I'm 39 and had season tickets from 1996-2005. Please don't lecture me on frustrating. >>
Haha, you remind me of a funny story. There was a bank-teller in Georgia with a Steelers jersey. She wasn't from Pittsburg but said she was a huge Steelers fan. I mentioned that I had been a Lions fan for almost 40 years but the team finally broke me and I can care less about them anymore. She commenced to "lecture" me on what it means to be a devoted fan!
If your criticism of Leyland is he doesn't motivate his players or get the most out of them, I don't know I'm not in Detroit, or close to the team. The opposite has been said about Ron and that is why his players love playing for him and the fans like him. I tolerate him. I hate his complete dismissal of advanced metrics. I'm not saying rely 100% on them, but the game is evolving use them. I hate his dismissal of regular stats. I think a baseball manager effects personally 15-20 games, maybe, at most. And I think he's made some pretty dumb decisions tactically over the course of his 5 years, but I'm not going to get my underwear in a twist over it.
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Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>Do you watch the Tigers?? You can look at overall numbers all you want and they only show what happens over a full season...they don't show the consistency. When the weather is warm, the Tigers 'swing for the fences' approach works great and the offense lights up the scoreboard. When it is cold, those same swings result in strikeouts and flyouts and the offense can't do a thing to manufacture a run. >>
In 2012, the Tigers scored 94 runs in 22 April games - an average of 4.27 runs per game. The entire rest of the season, they averaged 4.5 runs per game. Methinks you're barking up the wrong tree here.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you watch the Tigers?? You can look at overall numbers all you want and they only show what happens over a full season...they don't show the consistency. When the weather is warm, the Tigers 'swing for the fences' approach works great and the offense lights up the scoreboard. When it is cold, those same swings result in strikeouts and flyouts and the offense can't do a thing to manufacture a run. >>
In 2012, the Tigers scored 94 runs in 22 April games - an average of 4.27 runs per game. The entire rest of the season, they averaged 4.5 runs per game. Methinks you're barking up the wrong tree here. >>
So you point out a difference and then imply there is no difference? And my main point is squandered opportunities based on their style of hitting....and in low scoring cold weather games that are more often decided by a run or two, this is magnified further. And I gave you a very telling stat about the Tigers ranking second from last in the "squandering" category. And you don't need a stat to see that the Tigers are a slow, station-to-station team. If you are a Tiger fan and won't admit that these are an issue with the Tigers, then you are lying to yourself.
And are you going to ignore all of my other points about poor drafting and player development, easier division opponents, and the team benefiting from being able to spend its way out of its mistakes?
<< <i>And are you going to ignore all of my other points about poor drafting and player development, easier division opponents, and the team benefiting from being able to spend its way out of its mistakes? >>
No, I can't speak to the first one as I don't have in depth knowledge of their team. But the only player it looks like they raised was Verlander. Now they did have to have the assets to be able to trade for Cabrera and Jackson. Yes that division top to bottom is probably the weakest, definitely in the AL and that gives them an inherent advantage to make the playoffs over say the Rangers or Angels, where one very good team may be eliminated because they didn't win their division. Thus giving them a better shot to win or get to the World Series. Hey a TV deal is nice - you shouldn't apologize for having money to get Prince, to resign Verlander. Yes those are some inherent advantages built in for them to make the tournament. I can see this team aging quickly and not gracefully in 2-3 years.
The only issue I had with any points made here was the reliance on the stat hitting w/RISP. Here is a good article from a couple years ago on what I'm trying to explain. This author does it much better. He has a chart showing players who hit 10 points higher or 10 points worse when you compare the BA to their BA w/RISP. A handful of players each way - 25 or 30. A guy that's a .275 hitter year in and year out is probably going to be a .275 hitter when there are RISP, no runners on base, 2 outs, no out, guys with 92-95 mph fastballs, guys that throw mainly breaking stuff, so forth and so on. So the fact that Detroit wasn't very good in 2012 in this department has more to do with bad luck dragons since its not something a hitter can really control. That was my only issue.
Hey its frustrating as a fan, because you squander opportunities. The Rangers were 2 for 12 today in this department. Fortunately the second hit was a 2 out single with a runner on third that plated the winning run vs. LA.
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Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders