The best advice I have received in the last 10 years

TahoeDale · March 30, 2013 2:23AM

In 2003/04, I met Don Willis at a Santa Clara show, introduced by another dealer who said he had some nice Capped bust halves.
And he did. I bought 2 and then we were off to the races! For the next 5 years, Don found the majority of the halves now in my collection.
along with many of the Early dollars.

At one time during this great treasure hunt, Don pushed me to try to buy any CBH in PCGS 65 or better( including NGC coins that we thought would cross
at grade, or one pt lower( if MS 66). While I did not take him up on this( it would have broke me), I did buy many more, some duplicates that I have now sold.
We failed to cross a few, but I believe most did. Even at 1 grade pt lower, I still made nice profits.

At the same time period, I met Sheridan Downey. I had never done business with him, as he was a real Overton specialist, with mostly Circ. examples of the rarer
varieties. NOT. When I found that he did come across higher grades( that did not fit his typical collector) I became his best source for selling these grades.

He would call, or set back a coin or 2 at a show, and then tell me they are available at his price--always on the high end, but the opportunity was invaluable. I paid it every time.

So, pay up for rare coins, and work with a dealer who knows his business.

I want to hear some other long term relationships that have been successful. This hobby needs to applaud the dealers who really help their clients build their collections.

astrorat · March 30, 2013 2:34AM

The Bust half specialists are great dealers and you generally pay top dollar for nice or exceedingly rare pieces. They are also very helpful as new collectors learn about the series and the fever begins to rise. Sheridan is wonderful and so is David Kahn. They have quality and quality has its price. Fortunately, my tastes run in the F-EF range as I like coins that have been out in the workplace doing their job.

Additional long term relationships with dealers in US coins have been with Brian Greer, Gail Watson (JJ Teaparty), and Dick Osburn (when he was at the helm).

STONE · March 30, 2013 2:41AM

<< So, pay up for rare coins, and work with a dealer who knows his business.

I want to hear some other long term relationships that have been successful. This hobby needs to applaud the dealers who really help their clients build their collections. >>

It really comes down to what your goals are as a collector.
Do you have specific criteria you would like to build your collection around?
How easy will this collection be to build - financially or otherwise?

Stick to these goals, because that is what makes a collection truly spectacular...no matter how high or low those coins grade.

I specifically targeted a VF/EF set of Capped Bust Dimes by die marriage. I could have changed course along the way and just done a high grade date set AU/MS pieces, but I found more enjoyment and more of a challenge in trying to acquire 123 different die marriages than a 20-coin date set! I started this journey on my own, with not much money, acquiring pieces here and there...whenever I had cash and whenever a piece presented itself. Through some good cherrypicks and trades my collection slowly grew. Only in the last year have I really begun to send my wantlists to a couple dealers in order to see if they could locate the few remaining die marriages I needed for my set. Board Member and Dealer, Rich Uhrich, has been the most active dealer I have worked with to find several of the remaining die marriages I have otherwise been unable to find on my own. This has certainly sped up the process of adding pieces to my collection. It has also forced me to re-evaluate all the coins I own and pair down my collection so that I am ONLY focused on Bust Dimes...which I am fine with.

My final thoughts are:
1) if you enjoy the hunt and finding coins on your own time then working with a dealer probably isn't necessary
2) if you want to build a collection with specific criteria then working with a dealer can work to your advantage even if you have to pay strongly for the pieces which are PERFECT
3) prepare yourself to step-up when a golden opportunity comes along because you could regret it in the future; I know I have paid more than I normally would have for certain
die marriages which may otherwise have been unattributed. But the extra time saved not looking for those die marriages has been put to better use.

ram1946 · March 30, 2013 2:47AM

I can't say enough about Andy and Alynne Skrabalak of Angel Dee's. He has helped me immensely through the years to acquire outstanding examples of Buffalo Nickels at a grade and price that compliment my collecting preferences. He'll find that "just right" piece and hold it aside to offer it to me. Andy truly knows my appetite and pocketbook. I am very proud of my herd and Andy has been the primary architect. I may be a small customer but he relates to me as if I am his only customer. Not only does Andy know his clientss better than anyone else I've met, both he and Alynne are people of character and integrity. It also helps that they're both big Pens and Pirate fans (and publically confess to being Pirate fans).

keyman64 · March 30, 2013 2:51AM

I thought for sure this was going to be a thread about my advice to collect Mercury Dime Varieties! Geez, was I ever disappointed.

LanLord · March 30, 2013 3:42AM

"Go West!"

But that was back when I was a young man

Bayard1908 · March 30, 2013 4:27AM

<< So, pay up for rare coins, and work with a dealer who knows his business. >>

That may well be great advice, for a rising market.

AnkurJ · March 30, 2013 5:05AM

You can't overpay for quality, but can for coins you THINK are quality. The first step is separating the two.
Dale, would you say that coins you've sold have done so because you upgraded or felt they weren't high quality?

crypto79 · March 30, 2013 5:32AM

<< You can't overpay for quality >>

That just isn't true

northcoin · March 30, 2013 7:13AM

<< In 2003/04, I met Don Willis at a Santa Clara show, introduced by another dealer who said he had some nice Capped bust halves.
And he did. I bought 2 and then we were off to the races! For the next 5 years, Don found the majority of the halves now in my collection.
along with many of the Early dollars.

At one time during this great treasure hunt, Don pushed me to try to buy any CBH in PCGS 65 or better( including NGC coins that we thought would cross
at grade, or one pt lower( if MS 66). While I did not take him up on this( it would have broke me), I did buy many more, some duplicates that I have now sold.
We failed to cross a few, but I believe most did. Even at 1 grade pt lower, I still made nice profits.

At the same time period, I met Sheridan Downey. I had never done business with him, as he was a real Overton specialist, with mostly Circ. examples of the rarer
varieties. NOT. When I found that he did come across higher grades( that did not fit his typical collector) I became his best source for selling these grades.

He would call, or set back a coin or 2 at a show, and then tell me they are available at his price--always on the high end, but the opportunity was invaluable. I paid it every time.

So, pay up for rare coins, and work with a dealer who knows his business.

I want to hear some other long term relationships that have been successful. This hobby needs to applaud the dealers who really help their clients build their collections. >>

Excellent advice. Seems I have seen one or more registry sets designated, "TahoeDale." Any chance you could post links?

mozin · March 30, 2013 7:38AM

About forty years ago I started collecting Capped Bust Half Dollars. I did buy the Overton book almost before buying any Bust coins. Around 1988 I met Sheridan Downey at a Washington State Coin Show. I asked Sheridan why he had separate display cases for PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. That was the time I think I learned the most at any single coin show. Even back then, there was a rather large difference between grading standards for the three grading services, at least as it pertained to Capped Bust Half Dollars. Sheridan Downey has always been the number one dealer/authority for Bust Half Dollars, so this answers to my best advice in the past ten years. "Buy PCGS graded coins because that satisfies most everyone."

In the past few years Dave Kahn has become a strong coin dealer, specializing in Bust Series coins. He sold off his personal collection, one of the prettiest collections I have ever seen. I was happy to become the new owner of more than a dozen of Dave's personal collection coins. I consider what he had to say about each of his personal collection coins a course in itself. Like TahoeDale said, one must pay a little extra for the far better than average coins.

TahoeDale · March 30, 2013 7:55AM

I would love to post links, and/or images, but I am almost illiterate in this area. The Registry contains all my sets,
under Dale Friend or Tahoedale. Early halves are the place to start.

Reason for sales--along the way, I bought every nice CBH I could find or afford, so many were duplicates. The other CBH collectors have bought many,
others to auction, as I needed additional funds to continue buying( I am retired). The few NGC coins that did not cross were sold at auction, or thru dealer websites.

I am not criticizing any NGC coin--they were all very nice, but some were overgraded. Even a few PCGS examples had to go back to PCGS for appearance review.
One turned in the holder--infrequent but it happens.

As for only buying( and paying a premium) in a rising market, I disagree. The opportunity will be gone, if action is not taken.

mozin · March 30, 2013 8:33AM

<< I would love to post links, and/or images, but I am almost illiterate in this area. The Registry contains all my sets,
under Dale Friend or Tahoedale. Early halves are the place to start.
... >>

Here you go:

Dale Friend's PCGS Registry Sets

stealer · March 30, 2013 8:36AM

<< 

<< You can't overpay for quality >>

That just isn't true >>

For example, paying 68 money for an extremely nice 58 Barber Half Dollar is not the brightest move (purely hypothetical).

astrorat · March 30, 2013 8:48AM

<< About forty years ago I started collecting Capped Bust Half Dollars. I did buy the Overton book almost before buying any Bust coins. Around 1988 I met Sheridan Downey at a Washington State Coin Show. I asked Sheridan why he had separate display cases for PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. That was the time I think I learned the most at any single coin show. Even back then, there was a rather large difference between grading standards for the three grading services, at least as it pertained to Capped Bust Half Dollars. Sheridan Downey has always been the number one dealer/authority for Bust Half Dollars, so this answers to my best advice in the past ten years. "Buy PCGS graded coins because that satisfies most everyone."

In the past few years Dave Kahn has become a strong coin dealer, specializing in Bust Series coins. He sold off his personal collection, one of the prettiest collections I have ever seen. I was happy to become the new owner of more than a dozen of Dave's personal collection coins. I consider what he had to say about each of his personal collection coins a course in itself. Like TahoeDale said, one must pay a little extra for the far better than average coins. >>

Dave has a great eye and I have been fortunate enough to add many pieces from him as a dealer. He really gives Capped Bust half collectors another wonderful source for coins.

DRUNNER · March 30, 2013 9:02AM

Let's not forget the mid-range collector and dealer . .

From about 1995 through 2005 I bought many nice higher end circ Lincoln keys and Indians from Bob White of Portland, OR (Bradley's Coins on Broadway). Also Commems, other keys, and always graded right. When the time came to certify many, I was never disappointed. He is still there and I still buy from him. He may not deal 5 and 6 digit coins all the time, but he is one of the good guys for the mid-range collector.

Drunner
(Doily Slut -- and he sold me my second Doily)

MrEureka · March 30, 2013 9:04AM

As for only buying( and paying a premium) in a rising market, I disagree. The opportunity will be gone, if action is not taken.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many opportunities recur, and often at lower prices. The trick is recognizing which coins are "once in a lifetime" opportunities, and stretching on only those coins, when necessary.

EastonCollection · March 30, 2013 9:17AM

Relationships are very important to business and it extends to the coin hobby. If you have a great relationship with that dealer and "saves" that special coin for you, IMHO your collection will be that more desirable when you are ready to sell. But before you sell, you will get great enjoyment owning that coin.

SullivanNumismatics · March 30, 2013 9:25AM

It sounds like you've built a great collection. I agree that working with good dealers helps. So many opportunities to add great coins to a collector's collection are lost because he is "going it alone." Many of the nicest coins I sell are sold before I've owned them more than 72 hours (to collectors who I know are looking for that particular coin.)

TahoeDale · March 30, 2013 9:28AM

Andy, I agree, generally, that the opportunity must be an infrequent one--and if the particular coin is not scarce or rare, you can wait,
if the offering price is too extreme.

The right coin? How about the pop 1 181.7 CBH in 65
or the 1815/2 in 64
or the 1814 E/A in 64?
or any PC 66 pop 1?
or the 1835 in 67?

Coins you can and should wait for, if the price seems high--

MS 64 and 65 generics, and scarce dates where the pop is not limited to just a few coins.

bidask · March 30, 2013 11:41AM

Recognize this coin Dale?

TahoeDale · March 30, 2013 11:45AM

PM sent

bidask · March 30, 2013 12:12PM

Very scarce in gem....at the time I purchased this coin it was a pop 4/4......so I used Dale's advice.

Justacommeman · March 30, 2013 1:36PM

I've always paid up for "opportunity coins". That has been my strategy from the beginning. Only time will tell if it worked................MJ

coinkat · March 30, 2013 11:11PM

Again the trick is to know and identify the coin which is the opportunity-

My point is simple- there can be and often are opportunities that collectors/dealers just do not see.

Elcontador · March 31, 2013 3:21AM

<< 

<< You can't overpay for quality >>

That just isn't true >>

Agree with the second comment. Imo, plenty of people overpay for quality coins.
1) Earlier this year, Stack's auctioned off an incredible collection of early copper. Some guy paid $32,000 for the "finest known" 1852 Large Cent in a PC 5 RD holder. You can find a nice one for between $4,000 and $5,000. Do you think the winning bidder didn't overpay for this coin?
2) The 1909 S VDB Lincoln Cent and the 1916 SLQ are popular expensive coins that are virtually readily available in all grades. Do you think you can't pay too much for one which is attractive for the grade?
3) In the above examples, we are not talking about a TDN coin which appears every ten years or so. I think we need to distinguish between a truly rare coin which few of us can afford, and a quality coin which might interest the rest of us.

As far as I am concerned, with no disrespect to Dale whatsoever, the comment about you cannot overpay for quality is perpetuated by those who make a nice living by claiming to sell quality coins (disclosure - some of these people do indeed sell quality coins, others merely make the claim).

CoinJunkie · March 31, 2013 3:56AM

<< 

<< 

<< You can't overpay for quality >>

That just isn't true >>

Agree with the second comment. Imo, plenty of people overpay for quality coins.
1) Earlier this year, Stack's auctioned off an incredible collection of early copper. Some guy paid $32,000 for the "finest known" 1852 Large Cent in a PC 5 RD holder. You can find a nice one for between $4,000 and $5,000. Do you think the winning bidder didn't overpay for this coin?
2) The 1909 S VDB Lincoln Cent and the 1916 SLQ are popular expensive coins that are virtually readily available in all grades. Do you think you can't pay too much for one which is attractive for the grade?
3) In the above examples, we are not talking about a TDN coin which appears every ten years or so. I think we need to distinguish between a truly rare coin which few of us can afford, and a quality coin which might interest the rest of us.

As far as I am concerned, with no disrespect to Dale whatsoever, the comment about you cannot overpay for quality is perpetuated by those who make a nice living by claiming to sell quality coins (disclosure - some of these people do indeed sell quality coins, others merely make the claim). >>

While I agree that one can overpay for anything, I don't necessarily buy the argument that it's
much easier to do for condition rarity than absolute rarity. It will all depend on what the market
decides in each case going forward. Some in this business are always trying to draw a
connection to art collectors. If that segment ever diversified into coins, do you think they'd
prefer an ugly rare variety or the most beautiful example of a more common one?

I will say that I'd be very hesitant to pony up for finest known red copper given the reactivity
of that metal.

northcoin · April 1, 2013 8:43PM

<< 

<< I would love to post links, and/or images, but I am almost illiterate in this area. The Registry contains all my sets,
under Dale Friend or Tahoedale. Early halves are the place to start.
... >>

Here you go:

Dale Friend's PCGS Registry Sets >>

Thanks - even if TahoeDale himself was too humble to provide same. I see now it was TahoeDale's Early Dollars registry sets that had caught my eye previously. Being a "Dale" myself it was easy to remember.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 1, 2013 10:33PM

I love advice. You all have a way of giving it.
Between advice and experience there is either failure or success...
and between those there is neither, if advice is not taken, tried and tested. (I call 'em the 3Ts. TTT )

HRH... Go long on gold
SaintGuru... ya ain't got game without skin in it, so put some skin in neophyte

! lol ( i love that about Jay)
ColonelJessup.... Assess where you are before you decide where you want to be
Feld.... Keep an open mind but always be honest and objective, there is much to learn with grading
Laura.... even generic gold near spot in a PCGS 62 holder is a great deal
Tom Reynolds.... Find your niche and you will be happy
Coinhusker... Life is a fight, be a prize fighter, you're only in the 3rd round (paraphrased) !
John Jackson... Joe , I love THE COINS too, but we can't keep them. So what if the margins are thin, we are the market and it won't move without us.

I could go on, but I deleted thousands of correspondences... and so many of them were by telephone.
I've had some wonderful correspondences here. It would behooove many to take heed of the words of the wise. Wisdom never hurt a soul.
This is the best place for advice I ever found in my life. Whether it's numismatics or attitude, one gets it adjusted here or they are GONE and that's not saying a thing against our brethren ATS. THAT is the ANA's house and I'm a life member. So you can imagine who's advice I take. It starts at the TOP and the only way to find yourself there is to seek the advice of TOP... and that, even like the Army... means going to TOP... It is where I go to ask questions.
Do not be afraid of the answers. They often hurt my ego and pride more than anything.

We are either a part of the WHOLE or we are a part in the hole.
Realone gave me great advice to get out of the rut in coin dealing. I consider him a friend.

Isn't that funny ? He's concerned with my financial wealth and I'm concerned with his numismatic health. I love this place. The irony alone is a fascinating endeavor into the HEART of numismatics.

TireKicker · April 2, 2013 3:45AM

<< I can't say enough about Andy and Alynne Skrabalak of Angel Dee's. He has helped me immensely through the years to acquire outstanding examples of Buffalo Nickels at a grade and price that compliment my collecting preferences. He'll find that "just right" piece and hold it aside to offer it to me. Andy truly knows my appetite and pocketbook. I am very proud of my herd and Andy has been the primary architect. I may be a small customer but he relates to me as if I am his only customer. Not only does Andy know his clientss better than anyone else I've met, both he and Alynne are people of character and integrity. It also helps that they're both big Pens and Pirate fans (and publically confess to being Pirate fans). >>

The best advice I have received in the last 10 years

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