Early Branch Mint Gold

cameron12x · March 26, 2013 12:59AM

Calling all southern gold experts! (Others can chime in too.)

Please take a look at the Capital holder template depicted below. The individual denominations are enlarged, but of the correct size relative to each other.

It will hold the following types of coins and their count:

$5 Classic Head (2)
$3 Indian Princess Head (1)
$2.50 Classic Head (3)
$1 Liberty Head (1)

Questions:

1. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination (unlimited budget)
2. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination ($15K budget)
3. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination (OPTIONAL: your budget)
4. What design changes to the template, if any, would you propose? (most folks can at least have an opinion on this?)
5. ANY other topic that you'd like to comment about with regard to "Southern Gold!"

Thanks in advance for your input! (Feel free to PM with suggestions.)

rhedden · March 26, 2013 1:49AM

As most of these coins are considered "southern gold type" by the average collector, the actual dates may not matter so much. Only a few are afforded the luxury of collecting southern gold by date. What does matter (at the time of resale) is that each coin is an awesome "type coin" in its own right. By that, I mean it's got great eye appeal, originality, and a 100% chance of PCGS/CAC status. In other words, for each coin, ask yourself, "would someone else buy this coin if they had limited funds, and only wanted one piece of southern gold?" If the answer is "yes," then you picked a winner. Stay away from coins that have problems, even a minor thing like a field mark or a rim nick. No matter how small, these are reasons for a type coin buyer to say "no"!!! Read threads by the local "dirty gold" experts and learn how to pick coins with truly original surfaces!

Placid · March 26, 2013 2:37AM

Nice start

To my eye's the coin spots need to be centered over the one below-above it a little better.

lkeigwin · March 26, 2013 2:43AM

I agree with Ron. It's all about eye appeal and originality.

I think the format is fine. Yes, it needs to be tweaked (centering). I wouldn't be unhappy with other variations.
Lance.

cameron12x · March 26, 2013 2:57AM

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far... much appreciated!

The template is, of course, "rough" right now. I'll make sure I get the centering and the scale all perfect before the final design. I just want to get opinions on the "overall look" and symmetry of it.

Of course, I will have the denomination and date legends underneath each piece. There is room at the top on either side of the $3 to place additional information. To the left I'm considering something simple like "Southern Gold Type Set." On the right I'm leaning towards listing the three branch mint names in this order: Charlotte, Dahlonega, New Orleans.

More suggestions welcomed!

Goldbully · March 26, 2013 3:01AM

Looks like a very promising template, Jeff.

Senex · March 26, 2013 3:02AM

<< Nice start

To my eye's the coin spots need to be centered over the one below-above it a little better. >>

cameron12x · March 26, 2013 3:04AM

Yes, I know about the centering.

Remember, this is a "rough" draft.

ambro51 · March 26, 2013 3:08AM

I see the set as a way of showcasing coins which show a distinct difference from P and S strikes. If a year is known with horrible strike and features such as a 1859 C gold dollar, I'd have that. Same with the other issues, the more the strangeness of strike or appearance that's what I'd have. Don't forget new Orleans issues. Sounds like a charming way to go broke and to gung ho set you'd be offered lots of other collectors upgrades . Trick would be staying away from the brilliant dipped circulated pieces. I could appreciate this as a lowball set of sorts... Honest working old gold

PerryHall · March 26, 2013 3:39AM

A lot of good advice and suggestions given so far. I would think that two openings for the $2 1/2 and three openings for $1 gold denominations would make sense.

GeorgeKellogg · March 26, 2013 3:39AM

Keep in mind that a Type Set should be able to be defined and should be complete within that definition. The illustrated template appears to be a random grouping of Southern gold coins--or perhaps an incomplete Type Set.

If your set had contained just one gold dollar, one quarter eagle, one three dollar, and one half eagle, then it would have been a complete Basic Lower Denominational Southern Gold Type Set (with just one example of each denomination, regardless of design type or mint).

BillJones · March 26, 2013 3:50AM

Unlimited Budget:

$5 1838-C and 1838-D Classic Heads, MS-63 for each which would be finest graded

$3 1854-D, only choice - MS-62, which I think is the finest graded

$2.50 1838-C and 1839-D, I think the best of these are MS-64. I don't know why you have three Classic head $2.50, but the third one for me would be the 1839-O. The finest graded is also MS-64.

$1 Liberty head 1849-D Highest graded is MS-64. I know that this is not one of the rarities like the 1855-D, but the one I have in MS-62 is pretty, and I imagine that there is a higher grade one that would have as much eye appeal.

$15,000 Budget

Since you call for Classic Head $2.50 and $5.00 coins plus the 1854-D $3, I think you are dead in the water. You might be able to find some formerly mounted and sweated pieces, but if you could fill this the coins would be as ugly as sin.

cameron12x · March 26, 2013 4:00AM

What about the 1854-O $3 instead of the Dahlonega?

I have three QEs to help with the symmetry and "look" of the final mount and this also allows all three mints to be represented in a single denomination.

With respect to the "type set" definition, I believe that I may need to rethink that and instead go with "Early Branch Mint Gold." Thoughts about that?

I'm going to change the title of the thread (for now) to reflect that.

Thanks everyone--keep the suggestions coming!

steveben · March 26, 2013 4:32AM

are really you going to do a capital plastics holder of southern gold? i think that's cool!

<< 2. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination ($15K budget) >>

if i were on a 15K budget, i'd reduce the number of coins to 3 ($5, $2.5, $1) or 4 ($5, $3, $2.5, $1) and put them all in a row by denomination. i'd choose the more common dates (which in this case aren't very common, but you get the idea), omit the classic heads, vary the mint marks (no weak either), and spend the rest of the money on condition. for example, my 4 coin set would be:

$5: 1846-D/D in au50, $4250
$3: 1854-O in au50, $5200
$2.5: 1843-C in au50, $3300
$1: 1849-D in au50, $2750

ok, i went over $500...but i chose + prices because i would want a good au50 look. you might be able to get them a little more or less...or you could opt for an xf45 depending on the look and that would get you under.

if i did a 3 coin set, i'd choose all one mint and find the most interesting circulated examples. i might do all charlotte in this case, because it would be a basic type set.

edit: the 43-c would be the large date. and yes, you need to center the template...otherwise, i like the placement given your coin choices.

roadrunner · March 26, 2013 4:49AM

A little out of my realm but I'll take a whack.

I wouldn't be so concerned about price as getting good value. I would naturally gravitate towards those issues that are still underrated....if such a thing exists in today's
over analyzed/gold dealer expert/pop report world. Best value may reside in the XF/AU coinage vs. mint state. At least your wallet will thank you.

"Small coinitis" tends to influence the price/demand curve of the $1's and $2-1/2's. I'd be less likely to go overboard on a "better date" in those denominations that I would
with $5's and $10's. Since this set will be made up of a majority of small denominations, that probably wouldn't work for me.

I've always loved early seated and gold with mintmarks. The Philly coins never quite excited me like O and S mint coinage. I know the C and D coinage is very pricey, and
there is a concentration of collectors for them by date. I'd probably spend more time looking at underrated O and S mint coinage...maybe even Philly. I like the fact that 54-0
is the only N.O. $3 gold piece. But have no clue as to its availability/rarity/value. I also don't understand mixing the capped bust with the liberty design.

BillJones · March 26, 2013 4:53AM

<< What about the 1854-O $3 instead of the Dahlonega?

I have three QEs to help with the symmetry and "look" of the final mount and this also allows all three mints to be represented in a single denomination.

With respect to the "type set" definition, I believe that I may need to rethink that and instead go with "Early Branch Mint Gold." Thoughts about that?

I'm going to change the title of the thread (for now) to reflect that.

Thanks everyone--keep the suggestions coming! >>

If you can find a nice piece in the Choice VF to EF range, the 1854-O Three Dollar Gold is a possibility for the collector who can spend $2,500 to $4,000. Beyond that level they get scarce and pricy, and probably a lot of them have been dipped and played with, with less than ideal results.

AUandAG · March 26, 2013 4:57AM

Since when did they move New Orleans to the North? Are there not New Orleans Tens and Twenties?
Maybe you meant to say small denomination gold from the South?
bob

cameron12x · March 26, 2013 4:58AM

Wow, all of these are quite diverse suggestions (expected) and all have relevance. It is helping me "think through" what I really want to do.

At the end of the day, for this small set, it's all about EARLY coinage from the three branch mints: Charlotte, Dahlonega, New Orleans. No other mints are being considered. (Notice the emphasis on EARLY.)

How would one compare a set like this with a registry (virtual) set?

One would have to "break-out" coins from slabs for this set. But there is something to be said for seeing coins lumped together outside of their tombs?

I'm leaning heavily towards early branch mint gold with obverse mint marks. Something about that "look" which seems to epitomize the essence of early branch mint gold.

Keep the suggestions coming. Thanks!

Barndog · March 26, 2013 5:16AM

I like the concept. However you choose to execute it (dates, MM, etc.), I recommend trying to have every coin with the same appearance, eye appeal, etc. If you are going for MS, bright coins, be sure to have all of them look that way. If you want dirty, circulated gold, make sure all of them are dirty and circulated. The coin you choose first should be your ideal of what the type set is all about. Then work on finding its "twins"

Have fun.

dcarr · March 26, 2013 5:43AM

To be a complete southern gold type set, you would need all of these:

$1.00 Liberty Head (Type 1)
$1.00 Indian Princess Head (Type 2)
$1.00 Indian Princess Head (Type 3)
$2.50 Classic Head
$2.50 Liberty Head
$3.00 Indian Princess Head
$5.00 Classic Head
$5.00 Liberty Head, no motto (optionally with [1839] obverse and [1840-1861] reverse mint marks)
$5.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$5.00 Indian Head [1909-O]
$10.00 Liberty Head, no motto
$10.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$20.00 Liberty Head, no motto (Type 1)
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY DOLLARS" (Type 3) [1879-O]

PS:
How about a Western gold type set, all types from all mints:

San Francisco:

$1.00 Liberty Head (Type 1)
$1.00 Indian Princess Head (Type 2)
$1.00 Indian Princess Head (Type 3)
$2.50 Liberty Head
$3.00 Indian Princess Head
$5.00 Liberty Head, no motto
$5.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$5.00 Indian Head
$10.00 Liberty Head, no motto
$10.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$10.00 Indian Head (with motto)
$20.00 Liberty Head, no motto (Type 1)
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY D." (Type 2)
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY DOLLARS" (Type 3)
$20.00 Saint Gaudens (with motto)

Carson City:
$5.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$10.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY D." (Type 2)
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY DOLLARS" (Type 3)

Denver:
$2.50 Indian Head
$5.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$5.00 Indian Head
$10.00 Liberty Head, with motto
$10.00 Indian Head, no motto
$10.00 Indian Head, with motto
$20.00 Liberty Head, with motto & "TWENTY DOLLARS" (Type 3)
$20.00 Saint Gaudens, no motto
$20.00 Saint Gaudens, with motto

RYK · March 26, 2013 10:47AM

I like the idea. If it were my design, I would do it differently, emphasizing the more common types Liberty QEs and HEs and de-emphasizing the classic head $5's and the $3 gold.

Maybe 3 gold dollars: Type 1 Charlotte, Type 2 New Orleans, Type 3 Dahlonega
Three quarter eagles, one from each of the three
Three Liberty half eagles, one from each of the three

There is a sense of order or symmetry that appeals to me.

CharlotteDude · March 27, 2013 10:04AM

1. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination (unlimited budget)
I really don't care to limiting the number of coins with this set. If you're going to go for a Southern gold theme, make a holder that will fit at least one (C, D, & O) major variety of each mint.

This, of course with unlimited funds - all in original, problem-free & eye-appealing AU condition:
Type I, II, and III $1 golds - all three mints.
One Classic Head example of QE - all three mints
One Coronet Head example/QEs - all three mints
The 1854-D and 1854-O $3s
One Classic Head example/HEs - all three mints
One Coronet Head example/HEs - all three mints - "no motto"
One Coronet Head example/HE - New Orleans - "with motto"
One Indian Head example/HE - 1909-O
One Coronet Eagle "no motto" NO mint & One Coronet "with motto" NO mint
One Coronet Double Eagle "no motto" NO mint & the 1879-O "with motto

With more limited funds & limiting number to template in OP:
1855-C or 1855-D $1
1839-C QE or 1839-D QE
1854-O $3
1839-C & 1839-D HEs, Any better date No Motto NO HE (1842 or 1847 preferably) (The coronet '39-C & D HEs will match better with the NO Coronet HE)

2. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination ($15K budget)
Any C or D mint $1, Any C or D mint Classic QE, Any C or D mint Coronet QE, and Any C or D mint Classic HE, Any C, D or better date O mint Coronet QE - all in original, problem-free, eye-appealing VF-XF condition.

3. What dates, mints, and conditions would you select for each denomination (OPTIONAL: your budget)
See above comments

4. What design changes to the template, if any, would you propose? (most folks can at least have an opinion on this?)
See opening comment.

5. ANY other topic that you'd like to comment about with regard to "Southern gold!"
I dig southern gold.

'dude

cameron12x · March 27, 2013 10:12AM

Is there such a thing as a "Southern Gold" registry set?

TomB · March 27, 2013 11:23AM

It's a cool idea, but at times I seem to be reading it is a Southern Gold type set and at other times it is an Early Branch Mint type set. However, some of the dates mentioned then overlap with S-mint coins. Therefore, you should determine if this is truly for Southern Gold only or if S-mint coinage will be included with the creeping Early Branch Mint dates. If these will be restricted to Southern Gold coins before the S-mint came online then you would need the O, C and D (OCD..is that perfect or what!

) Type I dollar, Classic Head QE, Liberty QE and Liberty HE; the C and D Classic Head HE; and the O Liberty Eagle and Liberty Double Eagle.

cameron12x · March 27, 2013 1:38PM

Here is how I plan to initially populate the openings below.

Across the bottom: 1838-C, 1839-D, 1839-O Quarter Eagles
Across the middle: 1838-D, 1839-C Half Eagles
In the center: 1849-O Liberty Dollar
At the top: 1854-O $3

I used to own a 1838-C Quarter Eagle, but it was stolen in 2010. So, in the short-term, I may substitute an image of that piece. (Tom--I wish I could afford your gorgeous 1838-C QE!) Another option is to find a suitable 1839-C Quarter Eagle. The 1838-D Half Eagle and 1854-O $3 will be arriving in the mail tomorrow. That leaves only the 1849-O Liberty Dollar to purchase.

I have no doubt that this set will change over time. But for now, I believe the "Early Branch Mint Gold" title describes it best.

RYK · March 27, 2013 1:44PM

<< Is there such a thing as a "Southern Gold" registry set? >>

Not yet.

cameron12x · March 27, 2013 9:13PM

Other than perhaps Eliasberg, does anyone know if a complete "southern gold" set has ever been completed?

RYK · March 27, 2013 9:39PM

<< Other than perhaps Eliasberg, does anyone know if a complete "southern gold" set has ever been completed? >>

Bass

Early Branch Mint Gold

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