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1844 Cameo Business strike quarter
Manorcourtman
Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
So I bought a new 1844 quarter today. It's got cameo devices on both obverse and reverse. What would cause this? New dies? I swear it looks like a proof at first glance but know better. It also has semi-pl fields. Will new dies cause the semi-pl fields also? I noticed while browsing HA archives that other 1844 quarters also had this appearance. I defer to the experts to help explain the appearance if possible........Here she is: Edited for additional pics
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That red-green target tone really frames it up.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
wouldn't be the first bs flan i've seen from this time period struck by proof dies (if this one was in-fact struck by proof dies which at first glance one could make a decent argument for)
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Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>If the toning were removed, do you think the cameo effect would be anywhere near as noticeable? >>
Yes. The tone appears darker in the pic than in hand. The reverse device is very, very cameo in hand. The obverse I'd rate at 50% the cameo of the reverse.
<< <i>If the toning were removed, do you think the cameo effect would be anywhere near as noticeable? >>
That's what I was thinking when I read the OP's questions and looked at the picture.
Regardless this is a beautiful coin that I would love to own.
It may just be an early die state, with a highly polished die.
Business strikes can have cameo contrast. They just don't get designated as such by the TPGs.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Empty Nest Collection
I'd love to hear roadrunner and jhdfla on this subject. Their overall experience in this specific area is invaluable.
Edited to add. Late Civil War and somewhat later trimes, dimes and half dimes fall into this category too.
The coin wouldn't be a cameo imo if it was dipped from here or just never toned in the first place. It's very difficult to find pre-1852 with drapery quarters (1840-1851) that have much
or most of their luster remaining. Even many of the slabbed 61-65 uncs are drab, lifeless, or have thick-ugly mottled toning on them. Finding an 1844 25c with this much luster,
especially in high circ grades is rather difficult. Most AU's have been stripped within an inch of their lives. This one looks cameo because it has a lot of luster imbedded in the figures,
and the centers had the toning removed. At one time the coin was probably a uniform brown-green-golden color until someone tried to improve the look. Looks very typical to me
for an 1840's seated quarter in attractive higher end AU/slider unc. The coin has very little technical wear but is missing a lot of field luster. Typical flatness in strike on the eagle's rt.
lower leg as often seen on Philly dates of the 1840's. I've seen similar coins in 61 holders. The fields probably have a semi PL look because of the missing luster, the toning, or a combo
of the two. I haven't studied 1844's in detail to say whether AU's and Uncs tend to have semi PL look to them. If all the field luster were put back on the coin I doubt it would look as
proof like. Peripheral irridescent toning on slightly circulated seated and bust coins often gives the appearance of proof like fields where the luster used to be. That effect fooled me many
times in the past.
You probably won't find a real unc 1844 quarter until you get up to a MS63/64 grade. And even in that case, a lot of those are nothing more than choice sliders. I can't recall ever
seeing a killer 1844 quarter with no rub, full mint luster, and gem surfaces. They always have "issues." During 1983-1987 I had a want list out with major dealers looking to pay $4-5K
for any gem seated quarter 1840-1851. No one ever found one for me nor did I ever find one myself. It was quite frustrating. And $5K was plenty of money back then. I doubt there
are more than 20 such coins in existence. They would probably have to grade 65+ or 66 today. I've seen dead luster dogs of these early dates in MS66 holders as well.
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