Update: 1907 $20 Saint PCGS MS63: Stolen? Misplaced? Scammed?

renman95 · February 18, 2013 8:40AM

Two months ago I won a 1907 Saint from a seller on ebay. But I returned it because it wasn't as described. I contacted the seller about the return, no problem. I returned it as the auction dictated. I sent it back for signature and valued at $2,100. I tracked it. Twice the seller did not accept...not home, at work, etc... On the third attempt it was accepted and signed for. Up until this time I had fair communication with him. I inquired about the refund and he replied that all he got was two batteries(?) Since then he has ignored all of my communication. I got American Express, ebay Resolution, and FedEx involved.

A couple of days ago I get a letter from AMEX stating that after they heard the sellers side of the story they decided that I'm on the hook for $2,100! So no coin, but at least I'm out of $2,100 (sarcasm).

Ebay dropped it in AMEX's hands and no word from FedEx.

Please be on the lookout for this coin....cert. # 9141.63/3522826. I don't know if the coin was switched at FedEx (3 attempts) or in the seller's office. I'm not pointing fingers. All I know is that I sent him this coin. BTW, the seller deals in batteries. I've never sent a battery in all of my 14 years at ebay.

BryceM · February 18, 2013 8:45AM

Yikes.

eBay transactions are perfect 99% of the time. That 1% can be painful enough to offset all the good though. Returns always make me nervous, especially with someone I don't actually know. By then the deal is already starting to go sideways.

epcjimi1 · February 18, 2013 8:56AM

Two words.

USPS registered.

djm · February 18, 2013 8:56AM

First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff.

braddick · February 18, 2013 9:04AM

You got lucky!
It's illegal to send batteries (now) in the mail.

Cougar1978 · February 18, 2013 9:06AM

What a terrible loss. I think I will revise my minimum at risk on sight unseen coins.

roadrunner · February 18, 2013 9:15AM

After being scammed for an identical amount ($2100) back in 2007 (on a $20 Lib as well) I no longer play on Ebay. Just not worth the headaches.
In that situation the seller never claimed to have sent the merchandise. And in fact they hadn't/couldn't since the auction was 100% lifted from another seller.
Ebay wouldn't lift a finger. That was a clear signal to me that it was time to get out of Dodge.

braddick · February 18, 2013 9:18AM

<< Two words.

USPS registered. >>

That's four words.

__________________

On a side note: It was a PCGS Saint and the OP states it was misrepresented. I find that ever so slightly curious. Gold a couple months ago took a hit too.
I wonder if gold had risen a couple of hundred dollars an ounce if the return would have still taken place.

Either way, I am sorry for the OP and also a bit sorry for the seller as dealing with bullion/common gold would be a minefield on eBay.

nutmeg · February 18, 2013 9:35AM

The other day the doorbell rang. I had the main door open and the storm door closed. But you could see out the glass of the storm door. You could also see in and I was sitting in plain sight at my computer. I saw a man at the door and got up- before I could open the door the man turned and walked away. He got in a Fed Ex truck and drove away. I opened the door and picked up the package. It wasn't mine, wasn't my name or address. I kept it for 2 days [yeah he'll come back]and then delivered it myself to the correct place.
Now this idiot rang the doorbell and I was sitting in plain sight. He couldn't wait for me to verify the address and that the package was mine?
I had only one other experience with Fed Ex. That was a shipment of coins back to me from a TPG.
The Fed Ex website tracking said "on truck, out for delivery before 4pm". I waited all day and no package. I finally called them and they said the guy would meet me at a drop box 4 miles away.
Huh! I said no and finally my coins were delivered about 6:30pm.
I will never ship anything by Fed Ex no matter what.

LindeDad · February 18, 2013 9:43AM

I'm wondering how a slabbed professionally graded coin is Not As Described?

renman95 · February 18, 2013 9:47AM

<< First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff. >>

Thanks, I chock it up to complacency after so many years of nothing major happening.

renman95 · February 18, 2013 9:53AM

<< I'm wondering how a slabbed professionally graded coin is Not As Described? >>

He added "Premium Quality" and it did not measure up imo...two major black marks among other issues blotted out by careful picture taking.

pierre · February 18, 2013 9:54AM

Awful...........makes one wonder where you should do buisiness..........

stealer · February 18, 2013 9:55AM

<< Two words.

USPS registered. >>

I agree, FedEx just doesn't fly for expensive things.

droopyd · February 18, 2013 11:04AM

FedEx does not insure "art," including numismatic items.

lcoopie · February 18, 2013 11:12AM

seems like there is no way to protect yourself from this type of thief

Justacommeman · February 18, 2013 11:24AM

<< After being scammed I no longer play on Ebay. Just not worth the headaches.
In that situation the seller never claimed to have sent the merchandise. And in fact they hadn't/couldn't since the auction was 100% lifted from another seller.
Ebay wouldn't lift a finger. That was a clear signal to me that it was time to get out of Dodge. >>

2004 for me and never again.

Good luck renman. Go back at Amex and ask to reopen. MJ

lcoopie · February 18, 2013 11:44AM

Sue Amex?

golden · February 18, 2013 1:25PM

<< Two words.

USPS registered. >>

BAJJERFAN · February 18, 2013 2:57PM

<< Two words.

USPS registered. >>

How does that help if the recipient lies about the contents when he gets it back? No way the USPS is gonna pay a $2100 claim for batteries that weren't lost. If it shows as delivered they would disallow your claim.

BAJJERFAN · February 18, 2013 3:01PM

<< The other day the doorbell rang. I had the main door open and the storm door closed. But you could see out the glass of the storm door. You could also see in and I was sitting in plain sight at my computer. I saw a man at the door and got up- before I could open the door the man turned and walked away. He got in a Fed Ex truck and drove away. I opened the door and picked up the package. It wasn't mine, wasn't my name or address. I kept it for 2 days [yeah he'll come back]and then delivered it myself to the correct place.
Now this idiot rang the doorbell and I was sitting in plain sight. He couldn't wait for me to verify the address and that the package was mine?
I had only one other experience with Fed Ex. That was a shipment of coins back to me from a TPG.
The Fed Ex website tracking said "on truck, out for delivery before 4pm". I waited all day and no package. I finally called them and they said the guy would meet me at a drop box 4 miles away.
Huh! I said no and finally my coins were delivered about 6:30pm.
I will never ship anything by Fed Ex no matter what. >>

If it doesn't require a signature, my ups driver leaves it on the step and rings the doorbell.

Type2 · February 18, 2013 3:20PM

Did you use your card with paypal? Will they do any thing? This sucks.

BAJJERFAN · February 19, 2013 12:25AM

<< First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff. >>

Don't have an AMEX account/card and wasn't aware of their buyer protection plan. Is this unique to AMEX or do the other CC companies offer something similar?

BAJJERFAN · February 19, 2013 12:46AM

<< Two months ago I won a 1907 Saint from a seller on ebay. But I returned it because it wasn't as described. I contacted the seller about the return, no problem. I returned it as the auction dictated. I sent it back for signature and valued at $2,100. I tracked it. Twice the seller did not accept...not home, at work, etc... On the third attempt it was accepted and signed for. Up until this time I had fair communication with him. I inquired about the refund and he replied that all he got was two batteries(?) Since then he has ignored all of my communication. I got American Express, ebay Resolution, and FedEx involved.

A couple of days ago I get a letter from AMEX stating that after they heard the sellers side of the story they decided that I'm on the hook for $2,100! So no coin, but at least I'm out of $2,100 (sarcasm).

Ebay dropped it in AMEX's hands and no word from FedEx.

Please be on the lookout for this coin....cert. # 9141.63/3522826. I don't know if the coin was switched at FedEx (3 attempts) or in the seller's office. I'm not pointing fingers. All I know is that I sent him this coin. BTW, the seller deals in batteries. I've never sent a battery in all of my 14 years at ebay. >>

Unless one goes to extraordinary measures, one really has no proof of what was put into the package before it was sent. Who is this seller?

renman95 · May 6, 2013 5:05AM

Update: I got $2,081.35 credited to my AMEX account!

I was happy to see online my balance at $0.00.

It took a good part of four months, lots of documentation, and a persuasive letter but it's done.

I still don't know where the coin is. I'm still waiting for an AMEX letter and explanation(?)

Lessons learned.

CoinZip · May 6, 2013 5:32AM

<< 

<< Two words.

USPS registered. >>

That's four words. >>

Its 5 words
1. United
2. States
3. Postal
4. Service
5. Registered

or 1 acronym and 1 word

renman95 I'm glad you didn't get shafted for your purchase price....

s4ny · May 6, 2013 5:43AM

Nice outcome, sorry you had to fight.

I have never returned a coin and worry about the "batteries" scenario when I ship a coin to a buyer.

All my recent sales and some purchases have been via Craigslist or at shows.

No fees and cash or cashiers check exchanged for coins physically in person.

lcoopie · May 6, 2013 6:09AM

I'm happy for you

Another reason to buy from a dealer or great collections IMO

roadrunner · May 6, 2013 6:15AM

Glad you were able to get out from under this one. It looks like to be safe these days you need proof what went in the box and that it was transfered into the hands of the USPS
as soon as it was sealed. A standard reply to anyone claiming to have opened up a package of batteries or rocks is that you filmed the sealing of the package at the USPS and that they
will be contacting the buyer on mail fraud charges.

The other lesson here is the Ebay & Co. have little interest in properly settling claims. For them, the easy and fastest answer is usually the best.

Update: 1907 $20 Saint PCGS MS63: Stolen? Misplaced? Scammed?

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