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Update: 1907 $20 Saint PCGS MS63: Stolen? Misplaced? Scammed?

renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
Two months ago I won a 1907 Saint from a seller on ebay. But I returned it because it wasn't as described. I contacted the seller about the return, no problem. I returned it as the auction dictated. I sent it back for signature and valued at $2,100. I tracked it. Twice the seller did not accept...not home, at work, etc... On the third attempt it was accepted and signed for. Up until this time I had fair communication with him. I inquired about the refund and he replied that all he got was two batteries(?) Since then he has ignored all of my communication. I got American Express, ebay Resolution, and FedEx involved.

A couple of days ago I get a letter from AMEX stating that after they heard the sellers side of the story they decided that I'm on the hook for $2,100! So no coin, but at least I'm out of $2,100 (sarcasm). image Ebay dropped it in AMEX's hands and no word from FedEx.

Please be on the lookout for this coin....cert. # 9141.63/3522826. I don't know if the coin was switched at FedEx (3 attempts) or in the seller's office. I'm not pointing fingers. All I know is that I sent him this coin. BTW, the seller deals in batteries. I've never sent a battery in all of my 14 years at ebay.

Comments

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yikes.

    eBay transactions are perfect 99% of the time. That 1% can be painful enough to offset all the good though. Returns always make me nervous, especially with someone I don't actually know. By then the deal is already starting to go sideways.
  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    Two words.

    USPS registered.
  • djmdjm Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

    Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

    Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

    I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You got lucky!
    It's illegal to send batteries (now) in the mail.

    peacockcoins

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What a terrible loss. I think I will revise my minimum at risk on sight unseen coins.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After being scammed for an identical amount ($2100) back in 2007 (on a $20 Lib as well) I no longer play on Ebay. Just not worth the headaches.
    In that situation the seller never claimed to have sent the merchandise. And in fact they hadn't/couldn't since the auction was 100% lifted from another seller.
    Ebay wouldn't lift a finger. That was a clear signal to me that it was time to get out of Dodge.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,990 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two words.

    USPS registered. >>



    That's four words.

    __________________

    On a side note: It was a PCGS Saint and the OP states it was misrepresented. I find that ever so slightly curious. Gold a couple months ago took a hit too.
    I wonder if gold had risen a couple of hundred dollars an ounce if the return would have still taken place.

    Either way, I am sorry for the OP and also a bit sorry for the seller as dealing with bullion/common gold would be a minefield on eBay.

    peacockcoins

  • nutmegnutmeg Posts: 345 ✭✭
    The other day the doorbell rang. I had the main door open and the storm door closed. But you could see out the glass of the storm door. You could also see in and I was sitting in plain sight at my computer. I saw a man at the door and got up- before I could open the door the man turned and walked away. He got in a Fed Ex truck and drove away. I opened the door and picked up the package. It wasn't mine, wasn't my name or address. I kept it for 2 days [yeah he'll come back]and then delivered it myself to the correct place.
    Now this idiot rang the doorbell and I was sitting in plain sight. He couldn't wait for me to verify the address and that the package was mine?
    I had only one other experience with Fed Ex. That was a shipment of coins back to me from a TPG.
    The Fed Ex website tracking said "on truck, out for delivery before 4pm". I waited all day and no package. I finally called them and they said the guy would meet me at a drop box 4 miles away.
    Huh! I said no and finally my coins were delivered about 6:30pm.
    I will never ship anything by Fed Ex no matter what.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm wondering how a slabbed professionally graded coin is Not As Described?
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

    Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

    Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

    I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff. >>



    Thanks, I chock it up to complacency after so many years of nothing major happening.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm wondering how a slabbed professionally graded coin is Not As Described? >>



    He added "Premium Quality" and it did not measure up imo...two major black marks among other issues blotted out by careful picture taking.
  • Awful...........makes one wonder where you should do buisiness..........
  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two words.

    USPS registered. >>


    I agree, FedEx just doesn't fly for expensive things.
  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭
    FedEx does not insure "art," including numismatic items.
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    seems like there is no way to protect yourself from this type of thief
    LCoopie = Les
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>After being scammed I no longer play on Ebay. Just not worth the headaches.
    In that situation the seller never claimed to have sent the merchandise. And in fact they hadn't/couldn't since the auction was 100% lifted from another seller.
    Ebay wouldn't lift a finger. That was a clear signal to me that it was time to get out of Dodge. >>



    2004 for me and never again.

    Good luck renman. Go back at Amex and ask to reopen. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sue Amex?
    LCoopie = Les
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two words.

    USPS registered. >>

    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two words.

    USPS registered. >>



    How does that help if the recipient lies about the contents when he gets it back? No way the USPS is gonna pay a $2100 claim for batteries that weren't lost. If it shows as delivered they would disallow your claim.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The other day the doorbell rang. I had the main door open and the storm door closed. But you could see out the glass of the storm door. You could also see in and I was sitting in plain sight at my computer. I saw a man at the door and got up- before I could open the door the man turned and walked away. He got in a Fed Ex truck and drove away. I opened the door and picked up the package. It wasn't mine, wasn't my name or address. I kept it for 2 days [yeah he'll come back]and then delivered it myself to the correct place.
    Now this idiot rang the doorbell and I was sitting in plain sight. He couldn't wait for me to verify the address and that the package was mine?
    I had only one other experience with Fed Ex. That was a shipment of coins back to me from a TPG.
    The Fed Ex website tracking said "on truck, out for delivery before 4pm". I waited all day and no package. I finally called them and they said the guy would meet me at a drop box 4 miles away.
    Huh! I said no and finally my coins were delivered about 6:30pm.
    I will never ship anything by Fed Ex no matter what. >>



    If it doesn't require a signature, my ups driver leaves it on the step and rings the doorbell.
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you use your card with paypal? Will they do any thing? This sucks.image


    Hoard the keys.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>First, Why would you send a $2100 coin via FedEx they only insure collectibles for $500.

    Second, I don't believe that the package was switched at Fedex. If I had gotten batteries from you and expected a coin I would have e-mailed you or called you to find out if you had made a mistakes and switched labels or something. (The fact he claims batteries is a nice touch as batteries can't be mailed USPS)

    Third, If you payed by AMEX why did you return the coin to the seller? You could have made a claim through AMEX buyer protection plan, returned the coin to AMEX and let them deal with the seller.

    I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I an not critercizing you just pointing out some stuff. >>



    Don't have an AMEX account/card and wasn't aware of their buyer protection plan. Is this unique to AMEX or do the other CC companies offer something similar?
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two months ago I won a 1907 Saint from a seller on ebay. But I returned it because it wasn't as described. I contacted the seller about the return, no problem. I returned it as the auction dictated. I sent it back for signature and valued at $2,100. I tracked it. Twice the seller did not accept...not home, at work, etc... On the third attempt it was accepted and signed for. Up until this time I had fair communication with him. I inquired about the refund and he replied that all he got was two batteries(?) Since then he has ignored all of my communication. I got American Express, ebay Resolution, and FedEx involved.

    A couple of days ago I get a letter from AMEX stating that after they heard the sellers side of the story they decided that I'm on the hook for $2,100! So no coin, but at least I'm out of $2,100 (sarcasm). image Ebay dropped it in AMEX's hands and no word from FedEx.

    Please be on the lookout for this coin....cert. # 9141.63/3522826. I don't know if the coin was switched at FedEx (3 attempts) or in the seller's office. I'm not pointing fingers. All I know is that I sent him this coin. BTW, the seller deals in batteries. I've never sent a battery in all of my 14 years at ebay. >>



    Unless one goes to extraordinary measures, one really has no proof of what was put into the package before it was sent. Who is this seller?
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Update: I got $2,081.35 credited to my AMEX account!

    I was happy to see online my balance at $0.00.

    It took a good part of four months, lots of documentation, and a persuasive letter but it's done.

    I still don't know where the coin is. I'm still waiting for an AMEX letter and explanation(?)

    Lessons learned.
  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Two words.

    USPS registered. >>



    That's four words. >>



    Its 5 words
    1. United
    2. States
    3. Postal
    4. Service
    5. Registered

    or 1 acronym and 1 word


    renman95 I'm glad you didn't get shafted for your purchase price....

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • s4nys4ny Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭
    Nice outcome, sorry you had to fight.

    I have never returned a coin and worry about the "batteries" scenario when I ship a coin to a buyer.

    All my recent sales and some purchases have been via Craigslist or at shows.

    No fees and cash or cashiers check exchanged for coins physically in person.
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm happy for you

    Another reason to buy from a dealer or great collections IMO
    LCoopie = Les
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glad you were able to get out from under this one. It looks like to be safe these days you need proof what went in the box and that it was transfered into the hands of the USPS
    as soon as it was sealed. A standard reply to anyone claiming to have opened up a package of batteries or rocks is that you filmed the sealing of the package at the USPS and that they
    will be contacting the buyer on mail fraud charges. image

    The other lesson here is the Ebay & Co. have little interest in properly settling claims. For them, the easy and fastest answer is usually the best.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

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