The most egregious cataloging error or oversight --

Ed62 · February 15, 2013 8:45AM

- - - - of which you are aware.

And did some alert buyer get a steal??

Lakesammman · February 15, 2013 8:54AM

When replying, be mindful of rule #4.

lordmarcovan · February 15, 2013 9:03AM

When the Krause Standard Catalog of World Coins changed their format a few years ago, they became really buggy for a while. To my knowledge, I don't know if they omitted any entire countries, but I do know of whole denominations, let alone types, being left out in the newer editions.

magikbilly · February 15, 2013 9:05AM

I thought you meant auction catalog....

Eric

Elcontador · February 15, 2013 9:36AM

lordmarcovan · February 15, 2013 9:40AM

<< I thought you meant auction catalog....

Eric >>

Probably did.

Disregard my prior response.

GeorgeKellogg · February 15, 2013 1:40PM

I don't want to embarrass anyone, but a good candidate would be the determination (by the cataloger) in 1963 that the George Walton 1913 Liberty Head Nickel was not authentic (was declared an altered date). That assessment was proven incorrect in 2003, when the coin was declared genuine at that year's ANA World's Fair of Money in Baltimore.

magikbilly · February 15, 2013 1:47PM

<< 

<< I thought you meant auction catalog....

Eric >>

Probably did.

Disregard my prior response.

>>

But it's so much easier if I don't

Have a good weekend LM!,
Eric

DeliaBug · February 15, 2013 1:51PM

Abe Kosoff's Hydeman sale. It is the standard to which all auction catalogue egregiousness is (or should be) measured.

Ed62 · February 16, 2013 1:02AM

My contribution:

As I remember in the 1950's there was an auction that listed a 1798 (or was it a 1795?) half eagle as if it was just another example of that date. In fact it was a then unknown variety with an entirely different reverse type. The coin remains unique and is now in the Smithsonian (by way of the Lilly collection).

ColonelJessup · February 16, 2013 2:42AM

Can we leave out counterfeits, especially gold? And entire "secret" auctions of processed frauds.

Matte gold - 1908 $20, 08 $5 and I think a 1914, at least 4 1908 QE's. Saint was 58++. Two of the QE's were like 61's, others better.Small auctions 25+ years ago were FUN!!!

I've bought a good deal more than a dozen matte proof nickels as unc in various auction large lots. Never full sets, just early-date groupings. Type I's, 15's with the die crack, 16's. Plus a couple of favorite 5c as scores on coins not documented as existing.

From Bowers and Ruddy a two-coin lot with a fake 27-S 5c and a 1917 proof. Argue later: in at 400, out at $8000 six months later. Four really sharp sets of eyes caught it. This was pre-TPG. Co-partner John Dannreuther (noted PCGS expert) was heard to say "I don't know why people would even ask. It just is..." No mint records exist of this not-truly-apochryphal coin. Ergo not TPG designated

At a Harmer Rooke sale in the late 80's there were two separate 3-coins lots of 1927 5c's that were clearly specimens of some kind, albeit with a different finish. No one had ever imagined, but I think half a dozen dealers in the room just knew... And bought both lots. I want to congratulate the underdidders who made us pay double bid. I sold out early for plenty. 15 years later, documentation of the Mint's 1927 experiments with chromium-plated dies were unearthed and SP status was confirmed. Check out the Heritage Archives for the technical and historic ends of this.

Finds like this are a total rush, especially when paying pennies on the dollar.

Underbidder on a XF45 1870-CC S$1 as P-mint.

Underbidder with MrE and two non-Forum members on a coin catalogued (large NE "country" auction) as 1843 $2 1/2 unc, prooflike, est. $1400. Forced the buyer to pay $57,500+10%. Only 5 proofs known. I never know what will remind me of something I learned at Pittman

Not to be totally Jessup-centric

NE dealer known as Stu-Pid found an unknown Cal Gold pattern in a regular-issue slab at a Bowers sale, cracked it, researched it, got it re-authenticated as a unique pattern and got 3000% return on his money and the admiration of people who hated him even before it happened.

Any US dealers doing the European auction circuit would have many interesting anecdotes

Type2 · February 16, 2013 2:56AM

<< 

<< I thought you meant auction catalog....

Eric >>

Probably did.

Disregard my prior response.

>>

But you are right they did forget to put some countries and that makes for good cherrypicking's

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 16, 2013 9:55AM

The 1933 $20 was grouped with a handful of common date Saints in the Farouk sale.

LochNESS · February 16, 2013 10:11AM

Wow, now I know why you're the Colonel

Quite impressive stories. I enjoyed reading very much. Thanks for sharing!

ColonelJessup · February 16, 2013 10:19AM

As mentioned, the Farouk Sale en masse should win hands down !!!!!

But not stop the hits from keepin' on rollin'

Love to hear more.

Betcha CRO isn't the only person here who bought a large lot that had an R.7 something in it.

coindeuce · February 16, 2013 11:40AM

In terms of oversight - Heritage used to ignore die varieties of Morgan Dollars, until one particular rogue individual decided to appoint himself as the unofficial attributer, which was an expansion of his habit of running around the bourse of major shows for a few years to try to endear himself to uninformed dealers of Morgans by pointing out the low hanging fruit that he didn't need because he had moved on to "bigger and better". I managed to harvest an unattributed VAM from HA about 8-9 years ago that only a select few knew about, and to this day it remains at #1 in the variety census, with nothing even remotely close (only Unc. known, since '04-'05). That has become an anomaly at HA by the aforementioned.

GeorgeKellogg · February 16, 2013 12:12PM

<< As mentioned, the Farouk Sale en masse should win hands down !!!!! >>

In defense of Fred Baldwin, he had to catalog the Farouk Collection in less than ideal circumstances. Forced to assess the huge collection in a turbulent Cairo, in a short period of time, with the Egyptian military standing over his shoulder, I think he did about as well as one could expect.

numisma · February 16, 2013 12:29PM

I have witnessed many "egregious cataloging errors" over the years. The "most egregious errors?" Well, maybe some other time, but here's one funny story:

At the 2001 (or was it the 2002?) FUN convention in Orlando, I was viewing world coin lots in the viewing room of a major auction house. It was a busy day, and there were at least 30-40 people looking at coins that morning. The person I was seated next to asked for assistance, and the rent-a-lot-assistant eagerly came over to please.

The customer said, "excuse me, but I would like to speak to the numismatist-in-charge here," to which she queried, "is there a problem?" He informed her that several of the coins he was examining--all Spanish colonial 8 Reales--were counterfeit. She assured him that they were the best auction house in the world and that simply could not be true. He rebutted that he was a renowned specialist in the field (he was, trust me), and that he really needed to discreetly speak with a qualified numismatist/representative of said auction house.

Five minutes later the head honcho mosied over and the discussion began: "Hello, I understand that you have a question about a coin?" The customer replies, "well, not so much as question, but rather an observation to share. Several of the coins in this box are counterfeit." "Hmmmm. Are you sure? I mean, we are very careful when cataloging coins, especially of this realm," said the auction representative, "what makes you believe that they are counterfeit?" My next-chair-neighbor then elaborated: "Well, these three pieces have the incorrect fabric and simply cannot be genuine, and this piece looks to be a cast counterfeit of the modern type. But what really concerns me is this piece." The rep replies, "it looks fine to me, what is the issue?" My colleague calmly answers, "the biggest problem is the word COPY stamped in the left reverse field." Chuckles erupt ... lots withdrawn ...

Moral of the story: Haste makes waste when cataloging.

coindeuce · February 16, 2013 12:36PM

But what really concerns me is this piece." The rep replies, "it looks fine to me, what is the issue?" My colleague calmly answers, "the biggest problem is the word COPY stamped in the left reverse field."

Sonorandesertrat · February 17, 2013 2:45AM

<< But what really concerns me is this piece." The rep replies, "it looks fine to me, what is the issue?" My colleague calmly answers, "the biggest problem is the word COPY stamped in the left reverse field."

>>

ColonelJessup · February 17, 2013 3:38AM

<< 

<< As mentioned, the Farouk Sale en masse should win hands down !!!!! >>

In defense of Fred Baldwin, he had to catalog the Farouk Collection in less than ideal circumstances. Forced to assess the huge collection in a turbulent Cairo, in a short period of time, with the Egyptian military standing over his shoulder, I think he did about as well as one could expect. >>

He produced a laundry list. The most ornate and detailed catalogue wouldn't have earned the UAR a dime more. Nice production values considering the insane tumult of the very first Arab Spring The Nasser junta was a one-off, and, while he would keep on doing business with the bidders for a long time, cataloguing wasn't a factor in the prices. Egregious only in the extent of the omissions his clients cared not a whit about.

So I'm agreeing

To me it's the dissonance factor, intentional or otherwise.

Can't one still consider the descriptions, even more so in the aggregate, to approach the apotheosis of eloquent understatement?

My Farouk catalogue is hiding... Was the 1933 $20 in a large lot?

ColonelJessup · February 17, 2013 10:23AM

<< I don't want to embarrass anyone, but a good candidate would be the determination (by the cataloger) in 1963 that the George Walton 1913 Liberty Head Nickel was not authentic (was declared an altered date). That assessment was proven incorrect in 2003, when the coin was declared genuine at that year's ANA World's Fair of Money in Baltimore. >>

What he said.

Feldini slapped me around and got me to agree. Biggest single boner ever. The hits keep rolling . . .

The most egregious cataloging error or oversight --

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