AU coins

NorCalJack · February 11, 2013 7:58AM

So I have a 1932-D that is graded AU-58. I may be biased, but I think it is uncirculated, but that is not the reason of my post. For an AU-58, I think it is a nice coin. I have seen other AU-58's that have a lot of bag marks but they graded the same as mine. I know they grade AU-50, 53, 55 and 58, but what is the reasoning for these grades? Is it because of wear? To me all AU coins should have about the same wear and that a coin with a lot of bag marks should be graded AU-50 and coins that have few bag marks should be graded AU-58. Can someone explain this more to me. I would appreciate it. Below is the coin that I have that was graded AU-58.

tightbudget · February 11, 2013 8:03AM

I personally like to think of AU50 coins as coins with roughly the same amount of detail as an XF45 but with some luster remaining. The ideal AU58 should be much better looking than an AU50, more like an MS63 coin but with a touch of friction on the high points which constitutes wear.

As for AU55, I would say it's a coin with a tad more wear than a 58 but still with a fair amount of luster left (around half give or take). An AU53, in my opinion would be a bit closer to an AU50, with noticeable wear but perhaps a bit better luster or fewer marks.

I'm sure there will be quite a few different opinions in this thread.

bidask · February 11, 2013 8:53AM

i think that coin is PQ for the grade.

NorCalJack · February 11, 2013 9:15AM

What is PQ?

MilkmanDan · February 11, 2013 9:19AM

You're thinking about grading AU coins like they are mint state. When grading AU coins, you have to take into account remaining luster and amount of wear, in addition to bag marks, strike and eye appeal.

tightbudget · February 11, 2013 9:34AM

<< What is PQ? >>

Premium Quality

noow · February 11, 2013 9:44AM

<< 

<< What is PQ? >>

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For coins of exceptional quality.

veryfine · February 11, 2013 11:01AM

<< I personally like to think of AU50 coins as coins with roughly the same amount of detail as an XF45 but with some luster remaining. The ideal AU58 should be much better looking than an AU50, more like an MS63 coin but with a touch of friction on the high points which constitutes wear.

As for AU55, I would say it's a coin with a tad more wear than a 58 but still with a fair amount of luster left (around half give or take). An AU53, in my opinion would be a bit closer to an AU50, with noticeable wear but perhaps a bit better luster or fewer marks.

I'm sure there will be quite a few different opinions in this thread. >>

An XF-45 should have have more wear than an AU-50.
Sometimes it's a lack of luster that limits a coin to AU-50. It can have full intended detail, as well as dull, muted luster. If the coin is toned nicely, I actually like the AU-50 grade.

daOnlyBG · February 11, 2013 11:54AM

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Second of all, I think your coin graded AU58 because while there's some pretty nice luster on it, there are some significant dings on it that would indicate some circulation: mainly the spot underneath the eye, the spots along the jaw, and some spots in the hair. In my opinion, though, it's much better to be a strong AU58 than a weak Unc condition like MS60-62 (but, that's just my opinion).

Third of all, it's a nice coin. I especially like how crisp the letters on the obverse are.

SAM5969 · February 11, 2013 12:24PM

Hello,

A valid question and a hot topic in today's collecting world for sure. One that will no doubt conjure up a wide range of responses. Many experienced collectors will sometimes mistake an AU 58 (slider uncirculated) coin for a truly mint state coin, particularly coins outside their area of specialization. Novices will certainly mistake them as mint state. Back in the day before the third party grading services (TPG), many dealers would label coins as BU, select BU, choice BU etc .. Many AU, particularly AU58 coins would get the BU on the 2x2... sometimes with no malicious intent. To the untrained eye, a true slider, AU58, appears fully uncirculated / Mint State.

I have read a lot of information on this subject and spoken to many people about this very subject. I like to hear and read as many opinions and perspectives as possible in conjunction with paying close attention to auctions. I try to take all the information and auction results in and formulate my own opinion and best perspective on what makes it all tick. What are people most interested in? What aspects of coins stirs the most attention/demand/interest? Which coins and why are the ones that sell for moon money? Which ones sell for peanuts? Why? especially two coins graded the same grade by the same TPG - and even better if they both have the bean (or lack thereof). Applying all this information and real time results will hopefully lend towards a solid understanding and the best decision making possible when it comes time to shell out the big bucks.

I have found some excellent information from the JT Coin Blog. In a day and age where everyman collections are very popular and choice AU graded coins in big demand, it will certainly pay dividends to learn why coins receive the "coveted" 58 grade and the nuances within the grade .. It covers the entire range of AU50, 53, 55, 58 and offers excellent insight into what attributes are important and which carry the most weight into calculating the final grade.

There are really 3 "sets" of grades. PO1-XF45 for circulated coins; AU50-58 for coins with minimal wear and circulation; and MS grades. By definition an AU50, while higher than an XF45 may have less eye appeal than a lot of 45s as the coin is technically AU but at the bottom of the AU scale. This is NOT always true though! I have quite a few very nice AU50 graded coins. But generally it is. A coin can have remarkable eye appeal and a ceiling grade of 45 if the surfaces are not smooth or not enough luster to warrant an AU grade. The potential circumstances are virtually infinite

I recommend this read - the entire column is great but section III titled: III. Avoid AU-58 to MS-62 grade coins? I think is a wonderfully written piece and I agree with a lot of what is written here: Greg Reynolds AU58-MS62 for novice collectors

Here is the full column with other articles included that are off topic
JT Blog

The link above which strongly suggests the novice collector stay away from AU58 (through MS62) graded coins until enough experience has been attained to know where the AU58-MS62 grades are derived from for the coin in question. The author, Greg Reynolds, suggests the AU58 grade covers a wider spread than commonly perceived. Typically considered to be the "tightest" grade, AU58 can represent those coins that are of MS63/64 quality - tremendous luster and strike, very clean surfaces, wholesome and original but with a trace of rub or cabinet friction or a few days of circulation. Certainly these coins are the prized "gem" 58s. Other coins receive the 58 grade as a "net grade". A coin that is probably a true mint state coin has been graded down to 58 to offset something: hairlines or some other issue that has caused the TPG to decide not to grade the coin MS60-62; even though the coin is likely fully mint state. As many members here can say from their own experiences .. many NGC 61/62 coins are PCGS AU58 coins .. Many older seated coins in 58 holders are probably 61/62 by today's standards or vice versa. I personally have many tremendous AU58 graded PCGS coins that are 5 stars in every category. I also have a couple I feel should be graded AU53. Most people here will tell you coins graded AU58 by PCGS are held in MUCH higher regard than those graded 58 by any other service. Generally I agree .. But as the oldest cliche in this hobby goes .. Right ... "Buy the coin not the ..zzzzzzzzzzz"

I find the articles on the JT blog to be highly informative and very well written .. here is another column on the JT Coin blog relevant to the topic at hand

Refer to the middle section titled, "Forget what you know with MS61" JT coin blog ... Within that section is some relevant information to the topic of AU and borderline mint state grades.

Chinesecoincollector · February 12, 2013 1:18AM

A ms-65 coin with a little rub on the high point is an AU58.....

TwoSides2aCoin · February 12, 2013 1:22AM

<< A ms-65 coin with a little rub on the high point is an AU58..... >>

That's as good a point as I've read. I've shown coins in the office and the first thing some collectors do is grab it like it's a hamburger.

NorCalJack · February 12, 2013 2:02AM

SAM5969

Thanks for the links. I have been looking for a good blog to read about coin collecting for a couple of months now and that JT Blog looks to be a very informative blog. I have been collecting Washington Quarters since 1980, but stopped in 1985. Bought a couple PCGS coins in late 1980's and then nothing until the mid 2000. Now I have the bug again and am determined to finish my MS Quarter set. I bought a 1936-S MS-66 at the Long Beach show this weekend and look forward to being more active in my collecting in the future.

SAM5969, thanks again.

NorCalJack · February 12, 2013 5:04AM

So here is the "rub" I have with AU-58 coins. There is just an inconsistency in the grading and I understand that if it is not MS, then AU is an appropriate grade, but here is a coin that I saw on-line that is in a PCGS holder and is also graded AU-58.

You can not tell me that the coin above and the first coin in this thread are the same grade. I know someone said that the first coin had a couple of bag marks and that is why it was graded AU-58, and I whole heartedly disagree. The reason the first coin was graded AU was because according to the grader there is wear on the coin.

I will post the story behind this first coin and how I acquired it, how I cleaned it and the real reason I think it was graded AU-58. But I am at work right now and don't have time to tell the whole story.

TPRC · February 12, 2013 5:38AM

Well I see the problem and the difference which is pretty obvious. And the first coin is likely worth 2x (or so) the value of the second coin. However, that doesn't mean that the first coin is unc. It appears to have rub on the cheek bone and that makes is a 58 or a 58 + or a 58 pq, but still a 58 IMO. Sometimes if a coin has super eye appeal PCGS will grade it a 62 or 63, but not in your case. The second coin does not look like a 58 unless it has super luster. I have an 1841-O seated half with a similar problem....a little rub on the leg, beautiful toning and otherwise an ms-64. I even cracked it out of an NGC 61 holder. But it was and is an au coin and I was happy to pay $1000 for it several years back. And I still love it.

So keep the first and pass on the second. As for the rest of your confusion, well, I agree with that there are inconsistencies but for the most part the market takes care of it.

BillJones · February 12, 2013 5:45AM

The second coin grades AU-55 "with a tailwind" IMO. In other words the second piece is really only an AU-50 given the numerious hits, the obvious rub and the finger print.

The first coin does have a tiny rub on the cheek, but I've seen worse in Mint State holders.

amwldcoin · February 12, 2013 8:26AM

My experience with AU coins is this:

AU 50 is all over the board. Some are choice PQ 45's,Some are 50 as to wear with luster not considered(I think any AU should have luster),A few net grade messed with coins,and always a few undergraded. A 50 is a baggy or lackluster coin to me if graded correctly.

The scale from 53-58 seems to be gauged more on luster. For a silver coin the closer to the blast Morgan luster the better chance you have for a 58! A 58+ should have the look of a PQ 64 in my opinion!

NorCalJack · February 12, 2013 9:07AM

So the first coin in this thread I bought raw over the internet about 6 years ago. The guy claimed it was BU, but I only bid it as if it was an AU and hoped that it would go into a PCGS holder as an AU coin. Now to clarify, I never buy raw coins over the internet, but this coin just looked good and I needed a 1932-D for my set. When I started collecting BU Washington Quarters, I never thought I could afford a nice 1932-D and here was my chance.

When I got the coin, it appeared that there was a substance on the coin. Under a magnifying glass it appeared to have fibers or hair embedded onto the coin. I tried to use Acetone to dip the coin, hoping it would remove the substance. No luck. I took it to a local coin dealer and he was baffled also, but he theorized that someone had taped the coin into an album to adhere it from falling out of the album. Then someone removed the tape, and some of the glue from the tape remained on the coin surface. Then someone wrapped the coin in a handkerchief for safe keeping. The cotton fibers from the handkerchief then adhered to the glue residue from the tape.

The coin dealer said he could get the glue off the coin and that PCGS would still grade the coin. So he did and I submitted it and it graded AU-58. The coin dealer thought it would grade a minimum 63 and probably a 64. So I was a little disappointed when it came back a AU-58.

So where the glue was on the coin, I think it deteriorated the luster on the coin. That created a break in the luster and the grader mistook that as wear on the coin, but I am not sure if it is wear. Also when I submitted the coin 6 years ago the coin was nearly white. It had a little golden toning on the front of the coin, but I have not looked at the coin in 6 years and now it has this golden tone over the entire coin, front and back.

I think I will hold onto the coin for 5 to 10 more years and then resubmit and hopefully it will grade MS this time.

AU coins

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