Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

I feel like Rip Van Winkle who has awoken in the age of fractional grading (*+)

shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
Been away from numismatics for a while but the itch came back like it always has. I feel like Rip Van Winkle (- the beard) who has woken up
and found that I dont recognize anything other than a nice looking coin. * + CAC... are there any other symbols/stickers I should know about?

We had some great debates here about fractional grading back in the day, but in retrospect it was inevitable. The grading services
would eventually slow down as raw material was virtually all slabbed and even the upgrade material slowed.

The coins look the same to me but now I'm seeing non-numeric symbols in the grades that make me feel like the term PQ is obsolete.

Hey, I'm open minded and think there was room for in-between grades that were always reflected in prices realized but not in actual grade.
But now we don't even have to pick out premium quality for the grade coins, they are served to us in a slab. Will the grading services appetite
for new business eventually diminish as almost all coins have been graded accurately within a fraction of their grade?



And has anyone given Rick Snow credit for, long ago when even I was collecting, creating the concept of the CAC sticker with his Eagle Eye Photoseal?

Comments

  • Options
    krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    Hey Shylock, good to see you back. You do know that CAC stickers come in two colors? There are still PQ coins out there as not everyone wants to pay for a shot at getting a sticker or plus or star.

    Note to newer members: Shylock has a tremendous knack of being able to spot Indian Head Cents that were worked on between appearances on the market, and shared many of them here with before-and-after photos.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • Options
    daOnlyBGdaOnlyBG Posts: 1,060 ✭✭


    << <i>Been away from numismatics for a while but the itch came back like it always has. I feel like Rip Van Winkle (- the beard) who has woken up
    and found that I dont recognize anything other than a nice looking coin. * + CAC... are there any other symbols/stickers I should know about? >>


    If I'm not mistaken, NGC also uses "stars." What differentiates a "star" from a "+," I don't know.


    << <i>The coins look the same to me but now I'm seeing non-numeric symbols in the grades that make me feel like the term PQ is obsolete. >>


    Don't forget that one grading company, CompuGrade. They assigned fractional grades to coins with like, 5-6 significant figures or something like that. In that case, no extra non-numerical symbols were used, but the grading was still "fractional."


    << <i>Hey, I'm open minded and think there was room for in-between grades that were always reflected in prices realized but not in actual grade.
    But now we don't even have to pick out premium quality for the grade coins, they are served to us in a slab. Will the grading services appetite
    for new business eventually diminish as almost all coins have been graded accurately within a fraction of their grade? >>


    That would be true if and only if: (1) the grading companies never made mistakes, (2) all grading companies grade by the same standards, and (3) all the (collector's) coins ever produced were found and needed to be slabbed. As I understand it, none of those conditions have been met. I suppose it's remotely possible that (3) could happen one day (though, I have my doubts).


    << <i>And has anyone given Rick Snow credit for, long ago when even I was collecting, creating the concept of the CAC sticker with his Eagle Eye Photoseal? >>


    I did not know that Rick Snow came up with the concept. However, knowing how intelligent+diligent he is, and how much he's contributed to numismatics, I can't say that I'm surprised!
    Successful BST transactions with: blu62vette, Shortgapbob, Dolan, valente151, cucamongacoin, ajaan

    Interests:
    Pre-Jump Grade Project
    Toned Commemoratives
  • Options
    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Kranky - ahh an old friend!

    Yes I did figure out there are grades within the CAC sticker when bidding on a monster toned classic commemorative.

    The coin was PCGS 67 so I'm thinking CAC Gold is + even though PCGS didn't + it, but it's still very confusing to me because
    I thought CAC only confirms MS67 image
  • Options
    MarkMark Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shylock:

    It's GREAT to read a post from you. Are you planning on sticking around for a while? I certainly hope so!
    Mark


  • Options
    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,708 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice to see you back, Mr. Shylock!
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • Options
    TomBTomB Posts: 22,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who is this shylock we speak of?imageimage
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Options
    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Mark, Airplanenut, TomB wow didn't think you guys still posted here...

    So what do you guys think about fractional grading or is it really old news which I suspect it is...
  • Options
    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even though I am new here relative to yourself, I welcome you back. image

    Based on those that have chimed in, it sounds like you bring some good value to the boards which is most excellent. We have lost some good members over the last couple of years, for various reasons.

    I typically play with Mercury Dime Varieties.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner. :smile:
  • Options
    BigMooseBigMoose Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭
    Shylock, wow, what a blast from the past! Good to see you back on the CU Boards. I believe that a CAC Gold sticker means that in the opinion of CAC, the coin is undergraded and the CAC grade exceeds the slab grade by at least 1 full grade point. TomT.
    TomT-1794

    Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
  • Options
    MarkMark Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those who do not know him, Shylock has the best eye I have seen for tracing Indian Head cents. He can trace a specific coin from one holder to the next, even if it passed through the hands of a coin doctor somewhere in between. Truly amazing! Plus his photographic skills are in the top 1%.

    Of course, personally he is something of a toad... imageimage
    Mark


  • Options
    CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    Welcome back...

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • Options
    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Moose -

    Mr 1794 thought of you when I viewed the Cardinal collection online.

    I have a gold sticker commem in my sites in the LB Sale but now I doubt I'll win it, such is life image
  • Options
    jomjom Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good to have you back!

    As to the fractional grading: don't bother trying to figure it out. It's more mind-numbing non-sense from the coin market. Just concentrate on the coins themselves. heh

    jom
  • Options
    EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shylock - I know how you feel. The last light-side coin I purchased was before "+" and before CAC. PCGS will use "+" on dark-side coins, so I've a few of them.

    I think the no-longer-new Undiscovered Country for the TPG's is dark-side. That's still a huge under-tapped revenue stream that gets even bigger once folks start doing varieties similar to VAM, marriages, re-marriages and states.

    EVP

    PS Welcome back!

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • Options
    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow, a fresh breeze just blew in!! nice to see you after so long. image
  • Options
    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Lots of great old friends/posters still lurk here which is comforting....

    Kranky mentioned the CAC Gold Label as did

    BigMoose - I believe that a CAC Gold sticker means that in the opinion of CAC, the coin is undergraded and the CAC grade exceeds the slab grade by at least 1 full grade point

    You were right TomT, check out what this Texas commem sold for

    Nice toning - you can see a slightly better pic in PCGS's Coinfacts (if you have a subscription) - but not up there with Bruce Scher's 1934 Texas
  • Options
    Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Kranky - ahh an old friend!

    Yes I did figure out there are grades within the CAC sticker when bidding on a monster toned classic commemorative.

    The coin was PCGS 67 so I'm thinking CAC Gold is + even though PCGS didn't + it, but it's still very confusing to me because
    I thought CAC only confirms MS67 image >>

    And "WINGS" image


    Hoard the keys.
  • Options
    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From a newB perspective, I've taken all the bells, whistels, and stickers as important to the market, but not necessarily to the collector. Really nice (PQ) coins seem to be able to collect them and average or so-so coins don't. There seem to be plenty of exceptions and differences of opinion. Nothing new there probably. It is clear that coins which can't or don't earn these things are doing rather poorly in the market as a whole. In some series it almost seems preferable to have a 64+ coin with a sticker than to have an average MS65, even when the numerical grade of each is "correct".

    It sounds like you already know what you're looking for. Finding and buying the right coins before they've had a chance to make the trip back to the plus or sticker people can be a winning strategy.
  • Options
    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome back Shylock....good to see you again. Cheers, RickO
  • Options
    GeminiGemini Posts: 3,085
    Shylock Welcome back from Sleepy Hollow image
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever
  • Options
    TomBTomB Posts: 22,987 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Mark, Airplanenut, TomB wow didn't think you guys still posted here...

    So what do you guys think about fractional grading or is it really old news which I suspect it is... >>



    I neither care for, nor have much use of, fractional grading. However, I like the concept of CAC.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Options
    coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭✭
    *awakened.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • Options
    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great to see you posting again Paul.

    Thanks for the recognition.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file