<< <i>I was talking to an attorny buddy at the Justice department about him over lunch and he suspected that his biggest crime might be the manufacturing of replica dies and the possession of dies that mimic US issues more than the altering of old coins. He said the manufacturing of dies for active currencies were likely to get a responce form a local branch chief if brought to their attention but he said it was trivial. He said the possession of dies deamed counterfeit in conjunction with a excessesed government press could criminalize the whole thing an add various conspiracy charges. He said the burden for counterfit dies is much much lower then you would think, he would have to look up the details but the date and what not didn't matter.
Just an interesting conversation and a new perspective into the whole issue. >>
The very first pertinent information in 200 posts!
<< <i>He also noted that anybody who didn't think that even the must junior of staff attorneys couldn't find enough law to shut him down and send him into years of legal nightmares didn't really know how the law worked. >>
I'd bet the list of people the government couldn't cause years of legal nightmares is an awfully short one.
<< <i>Section 487 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code prohibits making "any die hub or mold… in likeness or similitude as to the design or inscription thereon, of any die hub or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper or other coins coined at the mints of the United States." For example, manufacturing reproductions of coins might involve making dies that are "are in similitude" to the design of the original coins, and therefore making these dies may be a criminal act under the statute. >>
<< <i>I was talking to an attorny buddy at the Justice department about him over lunch and he suspected that his biggest crime might be the manufacturing of replica dies and the possession of dies that mimic US issues more than the altering of old coins. He said the manufacturing of dies for active currencies were likely to get a responce form a local branch chief if brought to their attention but he said it was trivial. He said the possession of dies deamed counterfeit in conjunction with a excessesed government press could criminalize the whole thing an add various conspiracy charges. He said the burden for counterfit dies is much much lower then you would think, he would have to look up the details but the date and what not didn't matter.
Just an interesting conversation and a new perspective into the whole issue. >>
15 USC 2101 (the "Hobby Protection Act") was enacted on 29 November 1973, long after 18 USC 487.
So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. 15 USC 2101 specifically allows "numismatic replicas" to be manufactured. As such, it implies that molds and/or dies in similitude to US coins are allowed, since that is the only way that numismatic replicas can be manufactured.
If 18 USC 2101 was fully in effect, every one of these items would be technically illegal:
Every Indian Head Buffalo silver round. Every reproduction ever made by the Gallery Mint. 2011 USS Central America Kellog gold restrikes. Various Smithsonian pattern reproductions. The "National Collectors' Mint" products on late-night TV infomercials, like the "1929 $5 Gold Indian Head", and the gold (plated) proof Buffalo coins. Every other reproduction US coin ever made.
Artists have a long history of using coin and currency themes in their work. There are things like the Boggs Bills art, and the widely-publicized "gold counterfeit penny" made and intentionally spent by an artist: Brooklyn Woman Finds Counterfeit Penny Made of Gold Boggs had some of his works confiscated (the drawings that looked too much like real US currency). But he was never charged with counterfeiting.
And it is also interesting to note that while the US Secret Service has effectively banned the Liberty Dollars as "counterfeits" (due to their supposed likeness to US coinage), the outfit that made the dies and stamped the coins (Sunshine Minting) was never charged with anything, nor was any of their property or equipment confiscated.
-EXPCITE- TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-HEAD- CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-MISC1- Sec. 2101. Marking requirements. 2102. Private enforcement. 2103. Enforcement by Federal Trade Commission. 2104. Imports. 2105. Application of other laws. 2106. Definitions.
-End-
-CITE- 15 USC Sec. 2101 01/03/2012 (112-90)
-EXPCITE- TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-HEAD- Sec. 2101. Marking requirements
-STATUTE- (a) Political items The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any imitation political item which is not plainly and permanently marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.]. (b) Coins and other numismatic items The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked "copy", is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].
Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 16, Volume 1, Parts 0 to 999] [Revised as of January 1, 1998] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 16CFR304]
TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
PART 304--RULES AND REGULATIONS UNDER THE HOBBY PROTECTION ACT--Table of Contents
Sec. 304.1 Terms defined. 304.2 General requirement. 304.3 Applicability. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)). (b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act. (c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission. (d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. (e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item. (f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals. (g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause. (h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity. (i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act. (j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. (k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Sec. 304.2 General requirement.
Imitation political or numismatic items subject to the Act shall be marked in conformity with the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder. Any violation of these regulations shall constitute a violation of the Act and of the Federal Trade Commission Act.
Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder.
Sec. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.
Sec. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
(a) An imitation political item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured. (b) The calendar year shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations. (1) The calendar year shall appear in arabic numerals, shall be based upon the Gregorian calendar and shall consist of four digits. (2) The calendar year shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item. (3) An imitation political item of incusable material shall be incused with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension for the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm). (4) An imitation political button, poster, literature, sticker, or advertisement composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm). The minimum total horizontal dimension of the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY". (b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations. (1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language. (2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item. (3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction. (4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
[40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
<< <i>I asked DC why he won't put the word "replica" or maybe his initials on the pieces but he didn't/wouldn't respond. I am sure that those who purchase these overstrikes would probably still do so if he put his initials in the place of a mint mark or something similar. I think that would solve a lot of issues but.... I am not sure why he won't. >>
Collectors don't seem to want them with such "replica" marks. If someone is going to ignore the relatively huge fantasy date on the pieces, small "DC" initials won't do much.
However, for the one issue I produced that didn't have a fantasy date (the genuine 2009 Silver Eagles over-struck to give them a proof-like appearance), I did put an obvious "DC" mint mark on them.
<< <i>Something totally different ...that looks exactly like US currency , are you seriously saying a chucky cheese token could be confused as a US Quarter or are you just not thinking clearly today ? I too would love to hear why Mr Carr wont put his mark on his products , any thoughts there? >>
<< <i>Yikes, that coin is still an original 50c piece with whatever grafitti or post mint striking alterations done to it. Not deceiving as to value of the coin. It would be a lot different if a 50c piece were restruck as a dollar. >>
Yes, if you go about changing the apparent face value and then intentionally spend the thing at the higher value to earn a profit, that is a problem.
<< <i><<Is it reasonable to expect cashiers to check all the coins they receive to identify the date/mm combination and to know which are and aren't legitimate for all the different coins in circulation?>>
What I'm saying is that it's UNreasonable to hold Dan responsible for those who DON'T know. That's not his problem. >>
WoW ... that's a cop out of monumental proportion is it not ? Don't hold DC responsible cos he only makes them >>
So it's your contention that anyone striking privately made items should first do perhaps- a mass mailing to every man, woman, and child in the world telling them that there were no coins actually minted with XXXX date? The fact still remains uncontroverted that the OP coin was never issued by the mint with a 1963 date...so in what universe is it the MAKER'S fault that someone else may not know that?
Cop out? Hardly. More like common sense. >>
It's familiar ground this "blame the victim" thing here in the US isnt it ? It's not the people who make meths or crack's fault people get hooked either , it doesnt make it right. Its not the fault of the manufacturer that a child steps on one of their landmines 20 years down the line either , i see what your saying , doesnt make it right. The 1975 effort isnt even more woeful , im surprised it hasnt made it's debut here as yet. >>
Victim? Geeze. Sorry, I forgot, everyone's a victim now and no one has any responsibility for their own actions, or in this case, their own knowledge or lack thereof... right. Sigh. This place gives me a headache sometimes. OK, then...using your same premise, all cherrypickers are crooks- because they are SPECIFICALLY taking advantage of someone else's lack of knowledge.
This isn't about "blame the victim"; it's about "you can't fix stupid" or more appropriately, "it's not my job to fix stupid". By your attempted analogies above, apparently you're assuming that Dan's pieces are made with the intent to deceive people. They aren't. People try to cash $1 million fantasy notes at banks (and one nearly succeeded in the recent past). People try to spend tokens and fantasy coins and coin shaped silver rounds and Eradicane advertising "quarters" and more....none of which were made with the intent to defraud anyone...and some are successful. That's not the fault of the people who made them. >>
Several months ago, I was contacted by someone who didn't know anything about coins, but had received one of these in change at a Starbucks. They were able to search on the internet about it and find me. I designed it, but I did not engrave, mint, or distribute them. I told the person that it was not legal tender, that it was a novelty item originally sold for $7.95 or something. I offered them $6 for it, but they instead opted to keep it:
This novelty coin was widely marketed in 2004 by National Collectors Mint. I stopped doing design work for them around 2005.
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right? >>
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Why would it?
Unless the old law has been repealled, it is still on the books and enforcable. Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used.
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right? >>
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Why would it?
Unless the old law has been repealled, it is still on the books and enforcable. Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used. >>
Ok, so how do you explain the prohibition on the making and possessing of molds and dies in the likeness of US coins, vs. the legality of making numismatic replicas of US coins ?
>>> Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used. I don't know what statutes you are talking about here. Can you provide links to this US code or the full section and chapter numbers or whatever ?
<< <i>Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 16, Volume 1, Parts 0 to 999] [Revised as of January 1, 1998] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 16CFR304]
TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
PART 304--RULES AND REGULATIONS UNDER THE HOBBY PROTECTION ACT--Table of Contents
Sec. 304.1 Terms defined. 304.2 General requirement. 304.3 Applicability. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)). (b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act. (c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission. (d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. (e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item. (f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals. (g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause. (h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity. (i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act. (j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. (k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Sec. 304.2 General requirement.
Imitation political or numismatic items subject to the Act shall be marked in conformity with the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder. Any violation of these regulations shall constitute a violation of the Act and of the Federal Trade Commission Act.
Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder.
Sec. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.
Sec. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
(a) An imitation political item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured. (b) The calendar year shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations. (1) The calendar year shall appear in arabic numerals, shall be based upon the Gregorian calendar and shall consist of four digits. (2) The calendar year shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item. (3) An imitation political item of incusable material shall be incused with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension for the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm). (4) An imitation political button, poster, literature, sticker, or advertisement composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm). The minimum total horizontal dimension of the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY". (b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations. (1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language. (2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item. (3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction. (4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
[40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988] >>
Fascinating!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right? >>
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Be careful. Someone on here will accuse you of practicing law without a license!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Why don't you guys stop beating this exceedingly dead horse??? Let Dan do what he's doing. If his issues bother you then don't bother with them. There are plenty of other coins to collect.
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)). (b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act. (c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission. (d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. (e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item. (f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals. (g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause. (h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity. (i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act. (j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. (k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Is there a licensed lawyer among us who could explain what "reasonably purport to be" means in section (d)? I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
If my memory serves me right I remember seeing, on these boards, posts involving Chinese fakes with the wrong year struck on the coin.
I remember the posts here with members wailing about reporting the seller and large post counts with people jumping up and down, holding their breaths and having a field day about the crazy Chinese counterfeits.
Sales showing fakes like an 1872 Trade dollar or an 1835 Seated dollar. They actually put the wrong year on the coins. Imagine that. Well weren't they just Chinese "Fantasy pieces" and nobody here realized it ? Life sure can be funny sometimes.
<< <i>I received mine today. It won't fit in my Dansco easily.
Otherwise, I like it. >>
Yes, due to the production techniques, to get the type luster I wanted, they came out slightly larger than normal. This is noted on the product page. Some enlargement of an album hole may be required.
[q(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. >>
Wow. This one's worded very weird although I understand what they are attemtping to say.
That last sentence could be taken in any number of different ways.
(23,000)
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>[q(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. >>
Wow. This one's worded very weird although I understand what they are attemtping to say.
That last sentence could be taken in any number of different ways.
(23,000) >>
I would speculate that the last sentence refers to official government restrikes such as the 1780 Maria Theresa Thalers, the 1915 one and four ducats, the 1947 50 Pesos, etc.
The earlier part does appear quite clear.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i>I was talking to an attorny buddy at the Justice department about him over lunch and he suspected that his biggest crime might be the manufacturing of replica dies and the possession of dies that mimic US issues more than the altering of old coins. He said the manufacturing of dies for active currencies were likely to get a responce form a local branch chief if brought to their attention but he said it was trivial. He said the possession of dies deamed counterfeit in conjunction with a excessesed government press could criminalize the whole thing an add various conspiracy charges. He said the burden for counterfit dies is much much lower then you would think, he would have to look up the details but the date and what not didn't matter.
Just an interesting conversation and a new perspective into the whole issue. >>
The very first pertinent information in 200 posts!
<< <i>He also noted that anybody who didn't think that even the must junior of staff attorneys couldn't find enough law to shut him down and send him into years of legal nightmares didn't really know how the law worked. >>
I'd bet the list of people the government couldn't cause years of legal nightmares is an awfully short one.
<< <i>Section 487 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code prohibits making "any die hub or mold… in likeness or similitude as to the design or inscription thereon, of any die hub or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper or other coins coined at the mints of the United States." For example, manufacturing reproductions of coins might involve making dies that are "are in similitude" to the design of the original coins, and therefore making these dies may be a criminal act under the statute. >>
<< <i>I was talking to an attorny buddy at the Justice department about him over lunch and he suspected that his biggest crime might be the manufacturing of replica dies and the possession of dies that mimic US issues more than the altering of old coins. He said the manufacturing of dies for active currencies were likely to get a responce form a local branch chief if brought to their attention but he said it was trivial. He said the possession of dies deamed counterfeit in conjunction with a excessesed government press could criminalize the whole thing an add various conspiracy charges. He said the burden for counterfit dies is much much lower then you would think, he would have to look up the details but the date and what not didn't matter.
Just an interesting conversation and a new perspective into the whole issue. >>
15 USC 2101 (the "Hobby Protection Act") was enacted on 29 November 1973, long after 18 USC 487.
So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations.
15 USC 2101 specifically allows "numismatic replicas" to be manufactured.
As such, it implies that molds and/or dies in similitude to US coins are allowed,
since that is the only way that numismatic replicas can be manufactured.
If 18 USC 2101 was fully in effect, every one of these items would be technically illegal:
Every Indian Head Buffalo silver round.
Every reproduction ever made by the Gallery Mint.
2011 USS Central America Kellog gold restrikes.
Various Smithsonian pattern reproductions.
The "National Collectors' Mint" products on late-night TV infomercials, like the "1929 $5 Gold Indian Head", and the gold (plated) proof Buffalo coins.
Every other reproduction US coin ever made.
Artists have a long history of using coin and currency themes in their work.
There are things like the Boggs Bills art, and the widely-publicized "gold counterfeit penny" made and intentionally spent by an artist:
Brooklyn Woman Finds Counterfeit Penny Made of Gold
Boggs had some of his works confiscated (the drawings that looked too much like real US currency). But he was never charged with counterfeiting.
And it is also interesting to note that while the US Secret Service has effectively banned the Liberty Dollars as "counterfeits" (due to their supposed likeness to US coinage),
the outfit that made the dies and stamped the coins (Sunshine Minting) was never charged with anything, nor was any of their property or equipment confiscated.
15 USC CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION 01/03/2012 (112-90)
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE
CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-HEAD-
CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-MISC1-
Sec.
2101. Marking requirements.
2102. Private enforcement.
2103. Enforcement by Federal Trade Commission.
2104. Imports.
2105. Application of other laws.
2106. Definitions.
-End-
-CITE-
15 USC Sec. 2101 01/03/2012 (112-90)
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE
CHAPTER 48 - HOBBY PROTECTION
-HEAD-
Sec. 2101. Marking requirements
-STATUTE-
(a) Political items
The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the
United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of
any imitation political item which is not plainly and permanently
marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured,
is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in
commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et
seq.].
(b) Coins and other numismatic items
The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the
United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of
any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently
marked "copy", is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or
practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15
U.S.C. 41 et seq.].
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
[Title 16, Volume 1, Parts 0 to 999]
[Revised as of January 1, 1998]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR304]
TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
PART 304--RULES AND REGULATIONS UNDER THE HOBBY PROTECTION ACT--Table of Contents
Sec.
304.1 Terms defined.
304.2 General requirement.
304.3 Applicability.
304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
Authority: 15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.
Source: 40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, unless otherwise noted.
Sec. 304.1 Terms defined.
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)).
(b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act.
(c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission.
(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government.
(e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item.
(f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals.
(g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause.
(h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity.
(i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act.
(j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
(k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Sec. 304.2 General requirement.
Imitation political or numismatic items subject to the Act shall be marked in conformity with the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder. Any violation of these regulations shall constitute a violation of the Act and of the Federal Trade Commission Act.
Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder.
Sec. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.
Sec. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
(a) An imitation political item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured.
(b) The calendar year shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations.
(1) The calendar year shall appear in arabic numerals, shall be based upon the Gregorian calendar and shall consist of four digits.
(2) The calendar year shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
(3) An imitation political item of incusable material shall be incused with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension for the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
(4) An imitation political button, poster, literature, sticker, or advertisement composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm). The minimum total horizontal dimension of the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".
(b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations.
(1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language.
(2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
(3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
(4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
[40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Go, Danny!
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I asked DC why he won't put the word "replica" or maybe his initials on the pieces but he didn't/wouldn't respond.
I am sure that those who purchase these overstrikes would probably still do so if he put his initials in the place of a mint mark or something similar.
I think that would solve a lot of issues but....
I am not sure why he won't. >>
Collectors don't seem to want them with such "replica" marks.
If someone is going to ignore the relatively huge fantasy date on the pieces, small "DC" initials won't do much.
However, for the one issue I produced that didn't have a fantasy date (the genuine 2009 Silver Eagles over-struck to give them a proof-like appearance), I did put an obvious "DC" mint mark on them.
<< <i>Something totally different ...that looks exactly like US currency , are you seriously saying a chucky cheese token could be confused as a US Quarter or are you just not thinking clearly today ? I too would love to hear why Mr Carr wont put his mark on his products , any thoughts there? >>
See prior post. The fantasy date IS my "mark".
<< <i>Yikes, that coin is still an original 50c piece with whatever grafitti or post mint striking alterations done to it. Not deceiving as to value of the coin. It would be a lot different if a 50c piece were restruck as a dollar. >>
Yes, if you go about changing the apparent face value and then intentionally spend the thing at the higher value to earn a profit, that is a problem.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i><<Is it reasonable to expect cashiers to check all the coins they receive to identify the date/mm combination and to know which are and aren't legitimate for all the different coins in circulation?>>
What I'm saying is that it's UNreasonable to hold Dan responsible for those who DON'T know. That's not his problem. >>
WoW ... that's a cop out of monumental proportion is it not ? Don't hold DC responsible cos he only makes them
So it's your contention that anyone striking privately made items should first do perhaps- a mass mailing to every man, woman, and child in the world telling them that there were no coins actually minted with XXXX date?
The fact still remains uncontroverted that the OP coin was never issued by the mint with a 1963 date...so in what universe is it the MAKER'S fault that someone else may not know that?
Cop out? Hardly. More like common sense. >>
It's familiar ground this "blame the victim" thing here in the US isnt it ? It's not the people who make meths or crack's fault people get hooked either , it doesnt make it right. Its not the fault of the manufacturer that a child steps on one of their landmines 20 years down the line either , i see what your saying , doesnt make it right. The 1975 effort isnt even more woeful , im surprised it hasnt made it's debut here as yet. >>
Victim? Geeze. Sorry, I forgot, everyone's a victim now and no one has any responsibility for their own actions, or in this case, their own knowledge or lack thereof... right. Sigh. This place gives me a headache sometimes.
OK, then...using your same premise, all cherrypickers are crooks- because they are SPECIFICALLY taking advantage of someone else's lack of knowledge.
This isn't about "blame the victim"; it's about "you can't fix stupid" or more appropriately, "it's not my job to fix stupid". By your attempted analogies above, apparently you're assuming that Dan's pieces are made with the intent to deceive people. They aren't. People try to cash $1 million fantasy notes at banks (and one nearly succeeded in the recent past). People try to spend tokens and fantasy coins and coin shaped silver rounds and Eradicane advertising "quarters" and more....none of which were made with the intent to defraud anyone...and some are successful. That's not the fault of the people who made them. >>
Several months ago, I was contacted by someone who didn't know anything about coins, but had received one of these in change at a Starbucks. They were able to search on the internet about it and find me. I designed it, but I did not engrave, mint, or distribute them. I told the person that it was not legal tender, that it was a novelty item originally sold for $7.95 or something. I offered them $6 for it, but they instead opted to keep it:
This novelty coin was widely marketed in 2004 by National Collectors Mint. I stopped doing design work for them around 2005.
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Why would it?
Unless the old law has been repealled, it is still on the books and enforcable. Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Why would it?
Unless the old law has been repealled, it is still on the books and enforcable. Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used. >>
Ok, so how do you explain the prohibition on the making and possessing of molds and dies in the likeness of US coins, vs. the legality of making numismatic replicas of US coins ?
>>> Just look at §1983 legislation, it was passed more then 100 years after §241 and §242 but §241 and §242 are still used.
I don't know what statutes you are talking about here. Can you provide links to this US code or the full section and chapter numbers or whatever ?
My 1963 & 1975 Kennedy's shipped today
GrandAm
<< <i>WOO-HOO
My 1963 & 1975 Kennedy's shipped today
GrandAm
So did mine!!!
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
<< <i>Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 16, Volume 1, Parts 0 to 999]
[Revised as of January 1, 1998]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 16CFR304]
TITLE 16--COMMERCIAL PRACTICES
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
PART 304--RULES AND REGULATIONS UNDER THE HOBBY PROTECTION ACT--Table of Contents
Sec.
304.1 Terms defined.
304.2 General requirement.
304.3 Applicability.
304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
Authority: 15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.
Source: 40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, unless otherwise noted.
Sec. 304.1 Terms defined.
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)).
(b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act.
(c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission.
(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government.
(e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item.
(f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals.
(g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause.
(h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity.
(i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act.
(j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
(k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Sec. 304.2 General requirement.
Imitation political or numismatic items subject to the Act shall be marked in conformity with the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder. Any violation of these regulations shall constitute a violation of the Act and of the Federal Trade Commission Act.
Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder.
Sec. 304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.
Sec. 304.5 Marking requirements for imitation political items.
(a) An imitation political item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked with the calendar year in which such item was manufactured.
(b) The calendar year shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations.
(1) The calendar year shall appear in arabic numerals, shall be based upon the Gregorian calendar and shall consist of four digits.
(2) The calendar year shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
(3) An imitation political item of incusable material shall be incused with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension for the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
(4) An imitation political button, poster, literature, sticker, or advertisement composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the calendar year in sans-serif numerals. Each numeral shall have a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm). The minimum total horizontal dimension of the four numerals composing the calendar year shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm).
Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.
(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".
(b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations.
(1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language.
(2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
(3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
(4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
[40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988] >>
Fascinating!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Be careful. Someone on here will accuse you of practicing law without a license!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Why wouldn't a new law, that contradicts some aspects of prior law, not take precedence over the older law ? >>
Be careful. Someone on here will accuse you of practicing law without a license! >>
OMG! Did you just defend Dan Carr?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>So 15 USC 2101 takes precedence over 18 USC 487 on any conflicting stipulations. >>
You are joking, Right?
Does this mean that you're NOT going to get one of these Caleb?
The name is LEE!
(a) Act means the Hobby Protection Act (approved November 29, 1973; Pub. L. 93-167, 87 Stat. 686, (15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq.)).
(b) Commerce has the same meanings as such term has under the Federal Trade Commission Act.
(c) Commission means the Federal Trade Commission.
(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government.
(e) Imitation political item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original political item, or which is a reproduction, copy or counterfeit of an original item.
(f) Original numismatic item means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person, object, place, or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals.
(g) Original political item means any political button, poster, literature, sticker, or any advertisement produced for use in any political cause.
(h) Person means any individual, group, association, partnership, or any other business entity.
(i) Regulations means any or all regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission pursuant to the Act.
(j) United States means the States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.
(k) Diameter of a reproduction means the length of the longest possible straight line connecting two points on the perimeter of the reproduction. [40 FR 5496, Feb. 6, 1975, as amended at 53 FR 38942, Oct. 4, 1988]
Is there a licensed lawyer among us who could explain what "reasonably purport to be" means in section (d)? I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television.
That is sounding close? There must be a lawyer in here - actions used to be threatened all the time
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>WOO-HOO
My 1963 & 1975 Kennedy's shipped today
GrandAm
So did mine!!! >>
They arrived today
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
Well, just Love coins, period.
It won't fit in my Dansco easily.
Otherwise, I like it.
I remember the posts here with members wailing about reporting the seller and large post counts with people jumping up and down, holding their breaths and having a field day about the crazy Chinese counterfeits.
Sales showing fakes like an 1872 Trade dollar or an 1835 Seated dollar.
They actually put the wrong year on the coins.
Imagine that.
Well weren't they just Chinese "Fantasy pieces" and nobody here realized it ?
Life sure can be funny sometimes.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>And what is up with the post above? Logged in, I see no edit option. In fact, I see no option menu whatsoever. >>
Becase the posted image is so wide, you have to manually scroll your browser all the way to the right to see those buttons.
<< <i>I received mine today.
It won't fit in my Dansco easily.
Otherwise, I like it. >>
Yes, due to the production techniques, to get the type luster I wanted, they came out slightly larger than normal.
This is noted on the product page. Some enlargement of an album hole may be required.
Wow. This one's worded very weird although I understand what they are attemtping to say.
That last sentence could be taken in any number of different ways.
(23,000)
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Pictures in hand? >>
Scanned
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
<< <i>[q(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government. >>
Wow. This one's worded very weird although I understand what they are attemtping to say.
That last sentence could be taken in any number of different ways.
(23,000) >>
I would speculate that the last sentence refers to official government restrikes such as the 1780 Maria Theresa Thalers, the 1915 one and four ducats, the 1947 50 Pesos, etc.
The earlier part does appear quite clear.