<< <i>This is quite unethical. For a public company to freely and publicly state they would be complicit in a crime? If they're willing to violate the law for this, what else are they willing to do? Switch out a coin? Up a grade for some under the table cash? This makes me seriously consider not continuing to do business with this company. >>
If any of these 1964D Peace Dollars exist, they could have been legally acquired. That would be for a court to decide as is the case with the 1933 Double Eagles. I am sure that some professional looked at these Double Eagles for the family that found them locked away. Did that person break the law?
<< <i>Better add 2 zeros to bring one to daylite >>
No doubt ! I think you got the picture. ... not to mention the team of lawyers already losing the case but eating well. (They would surely be attached to that coin if it was in someone's possession, methinks)
<< <i>Deliabug: Even if you believed with all your heart that what PCGS was doing was just not right ... don't you think you could have used a bit more diplomatic terms in expressing your opinion on their corporate message board?
I believe DH reported yesterday at the luncheon that they already received an opinion from their attorneys that what they were doing was OK. I could be wrong on that, but I thought I heard that said by DH.
Anyway, on a related note, is it 100% certain that a 1964-D Peace Dollar is illegal to own by anyone out there under any circumstances?
Wondercoin >>
Perhaps I could have chosen my words a bit more carefully. You are correct. On legality, in a Bureau of the Mint news letter from May 31, 1973, they issued this statement regarding the 1964-D Peace Dollars:
"Should anyone have such trial Mint-struck pieces in his possession, they are the property of the United States."
Morals and ethics are very personal issues. It's obvious where I stand on this. I'm amazed that some folks get crucified in here for grabbing the junk from a Coinstar return. But somehow this is ok. What if the '49 DE went missing from the NNC and showed up at PCGS?
<< <i> "Should anyone have such trial Mint-struck pieces in his possession, they are the property of the United States."
>>
This is a legal opinion not based on deed or title.
There's virtually no chance whatsoever that the government considers this stolen property but like the existence of the '33 gold it is merely an embarrassment that they don't want to relive each time the coins come up for auction.
The offer of a reward to see an object is not in any way illegal even if the object is illegal uless, it is evidence of a felony. Even then it's not the offer that is illegal but failure to report the ev- idence.
It's funny they don't seem to suffer such embarrassment with the 1804 dollar and it is limited to thelifetime of the officials who made the errors. rather than holding the official responsible as they should they instead hold the object itself responsible.
I believe you are wrong on several levels and apologize to the board and our hosts for making this post which will likely be removed with the all the trash.
There are believed to be 5 known 1964D Peace Dollars. These are believed to have been removed from the Mint by a Denver Mint employee. It is believed this happened one of two ways. 1. Mint employees were permitted to purchase 5 new coins, it is believed that one employee returned 1934D Peace Dollars instead when they were ordered returned. 2. That the way to the furnace, 5 were switched.
Five additional specimens are rumored to have delivered to higher ups, but this was never verified.
In 1972, an individual went around to the ANA and showed 5 specimens, offering to sell them for $5,000 each.
A specimen today would easily be worth $150,000.
It would fall under the same category as the 1933 Twenty Dollar gold coin. Removed from the Mint illegally, therefore would be confiscated by the Secret Service.
In 1969, Marty Goodman created dramatic counterfeit doubled dies. Mint employee Neisser, who failed to make a 10,000 a minute coining press, examined a genuine 1969-S Lincoln cent doubled die in 1970 and declared in a counterfeit. Thereafter Secret Service agent John Holtzauer authorized seizure of any specimens. Five 1969S ddos were confiscated, including 1 at Coin World, and J.M. Kloss's specimen when it was returned from Error Trend Coin Magazine. These 5 specimens were enevtually melted.
In 1974, the Mint considered striking Aluminum cents, several were distributed to members of Congress. It was decided not to strike these. I remember a year or two ago, that one of the grading services certified a specimen, I believe it was ICG. I do not believe it was confiscated. I believe the difference here is that the Mint chose to distributed these as specimens, the same as they have done for the past 200+ years, almost the same as patterns are distributed, whereas the 1933 and the 1964D were never given, authorized, or were suppose to leave the Mint.
I believe they would be confiscated and melted.
So if I had one, I would not risk $150,000 for $10,000
It would have to be either first authorized by the Mint/Secret Service that if one was submitted, that it would not be confiscated, and that PCGS would have to guarentee this in writing for the full value of the coin. 2. Be certified in some other country, where the U.S. secret service could not confiscate it.
Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low.
I've never heard that tale.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low. I've never heard that tale. MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value. You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading, the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and what they were being offered for.
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low. I've never heard that tale. MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value. You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading, the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and what they were being offered for.
Kevin >>
OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that today's Chinese counterfeiters don't even hold a candle to the abilities of the Micro S Morgan counterfeiters who successfully fooled PCGS for years, whose to say that the 5 coins shown, if they were in fact shown, were authentic? Daniel Car himself produced a nice looking 1964-D.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972.
I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal".
Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972. I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal". Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars. >>
Anyone who has owned, viewed, or knows of a genuine specimen would be foolish to say anything. They would most likely get a visit from the Secret Service.
Remember the 1943D Bronze Lincoln cent, everyone thought one existed, but no one could ever prove it. A specimen did not come to the public eye till the Mint employee who struck it as a novelity died and left it as part of his will, he was afraid of persecution and loosing the coin.
Even though I have never owned or viewed one, I would bet my reputation that they exist (the 1964D peace dollar, not the Abominable Snowman or Bigfoot)
<< <i>OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972. I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal". Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars. >>
Anyone who has owned, viewed, or knows of a genuine specimen would be foolish to say anything. They would most likely get a visit from the Secret Service.
Remember the 1943D copper Lincoln cent, everyone thought one existed, but no one could ever prove it. A specimen did not come to the public eye till the Mint employee who struck it as a novelity died and left it as part of his will, he was afraid of persecution and loosing the coin.
Even though I have never owned or viewed one, I would bet my reputation that they exist (the 1964D peace dollar, not the Abominable Snowman or Bigfoot)
Kevin >>
No, I don't remember that "particular" coin but given the fact that there are numerous examples of the 1943 Bronze cent and that a couple of 1943-S bronze cents exists within the PCGS Population reports, I see nothing that tells me that there aren't more 1943-D's out there. BTW, did you see a copy of this fella's will or is this simply another "story" which has been passed along?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
There sure seems to be a lot of myths and "stories" that are passed around in the coin collecting community.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If I had it, the Secret Service is the first agency I would contact. Or Maybe I would tell this place and wait for them to contact me. >>
If I had one, I'd donate it to the Smithsonian Institution and hope the Secret Service didn't confiscate it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. >>
What about this?
It would appear from this that the Treasury is on record here admitting that 1964 Peace dollars were struck.
<< <i>I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. >>
What about this?
It would appear from this that the Treasury is on record here admitting that 1964 Peace dollars were struck. >>
I'll give ya that.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Apparently PCGS wants to scare one out of the woodwork with this offer. Rumors have (once again) been circulating that one of these pieces has been recently seen. It has long been said that if you know the right person and have enough cash you can own a 1964-D Peace Dollar.
If I owned one, $10 K wouldn't be nearly enough for me to out myself as an owner.
<< <i>Deliabug: Even if you believed with all your heart that what PCGS was doing was just not right ... don't you think you could have used a bit more diplomatic terms in expressing your opinion on their corporate message board?
I believe DH reported yesterday at the luncheon that they already received an opinion from their attorneys that what they were doing was OK. I could be wrong on that, but I thought I heard that said by DH.
Anyway, on a related note, is it 100% certain that a 1964-D Peace Dollar is illegal to own by anyone out there under any circumstances?
Wondercoin >>
Did DH also say that if they saw one that they would make it public? Or would they keep it discreet?
He never said. I might assume he would like to grade it just as PCGS graded the Aluminum cent (coin #3 on the top 100 list). Just an assumption though.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i> PCGS is offering a $10,000 Reward to the first person who submits an authentic 1964-D Peace Dollar to PCGS. This is such an important coin in numismatics that we feel that it should be made public, if one or more examples exist. PCGS also developed a list of the Top 100 Modern Coins which includes the 1964-D Peace Dollar, as well as incorporating it into a Top 100 PCGS Set Registry Set. >>
GOOD LUCK with THAT! Take at least a million for that to happen.
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low. I've never heard that tale. MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value. You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading, the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and what they were being offered for.
Kevin >>
The only DuPont coin to come into ANACS in 1981 was the Linderman 1804 dollar, which I recognized from "The Fantastic 1804 Dollar."
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I'll pay $100,000 for a 1933 quarter. Approved genuine by NGC or PCGS of course. Like the dollar, hard pressed either will ever show up... Help me out here - I thought the definition of "modern" was anything after the silver era - 1965 and later. ??? Unless the 1964-D $1's were minted in 1965, I'll let it slide!!!
There's good reason to include 1964 in with moderns. Indeed, there are numerous reasons.
The first date freeze was in 1964. The country knew it was the last year for silver in 1964. The Kennedy half started in 1964. The first clad quarter is dated 1964. The first SMS's were 1964. The cessation of mint and proof sets were almost certain in 1964. There are 1964 quarters with reverses designed for 1965 as well as clad quarters with 1964 reverses.
There are others as well.
Of course most of the ties to 1964 actually came in 1965 but they still exist and still can make 1964 part of modern coinage. This silver dollar is tied to 1965 as well since if not for the removal of silver there would have been many made and it would be com- mon rather than having bounties (as it were).
The modern era began when the mint started stiking clad coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The modern era began when the mint started stiking clad coins. >>
Only to "bullion" purists.
Numismatically speaking, Moderns began when the representation of "Liberty" was taken off the front of the coin and replaced with a President's personage. Specifically referring to "Classic" and "Modern" as coin "DESIGNS".
But then, the bullion folks (when coins were worth real money) can't seem to understand this simple concept.
Ooops. I forgot the KISS! (Keep It Simple Stupid) Which in its simplicity, to not confuse the less edumacated, says that 1965 was the year that "Moderns" began.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Rumors have abounded for years..... most of us have heard 'from reliable sources', but never actually seen one. My personal opinion is that a few may exist, but after the 1933 Eagle lesson recently enacted in the public domain, if they ever are traded/sold, it will be strictly a secret deal. Cheers, RickO
Comments
Eric
<< <i>This is quite unethical. For a public company to freely and publicly state they would be complicit in a crime? If they're willing to violate the law for this, what else are they willing to do? Switch out a coin? Up a grade for some under the table cash? This makes me seriously consider not continuing to do business with this company. >>
If any of these 1964D Peace Dollars exist, they could have been legally acquired. That would be for a court to decide as is the case with the
1933 Double Eagles. I am sure that some professional looked at these Double Eagles for the family that found them locked away. Did that person
break the law?
If you want Real Money...
Bigfoot Bounty: Spike TV Offers $10 Million For Irrefutable Proof Of Legendary Creature
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/10-million-dollar-bigfoot-bounty-spike_n_2067269.html
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
100% Positive BST transactions
<< <i>Better add 2 zeros to bring one to daylite
No doubt ! I think you got the picture. ... not to mention the team of lawyers already losing the case but eating well. (They would surely be attached to that coin if it was in someone's possession, methinks)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Deliabug: Even if you believed with all your heart that what PCGS was doing was just not right ... don't you think you could have used a bit more diplomatic terms in expressing your opinion on their corporate message board?
I believe DH reported yesterday at the luncheon that they already received an opinion from their attorneys that what they were doing was OK. I could be wrong on that, but I thought I heard that said by DH.
Anyway, on a related note, is it 100% certain that a 1964-D Peace Dollar is illegal to own by anyone out there under any circumstances?
Wondercoin >>
Perhaps I could have chosen my words a bit more carefully. You are correct. On legality, in a Bureau of the Mint news letter from May 31, 1973, they issued this statement regarding the 1964-D Peace Dollars:
"Should anyone have such trial Mint-struck pieces in his possession, they are the property of the United States."
Morals and ethics are very personal issues. It's obvious where I stand on this. I'm amazed that some folks get crucified in here for grabbing the junk from a Coinstar return. But somehow this is ok. What if the '49 DE went missing from the NNC and showed up at PCGS?
I've spoken my piece on this.
<< <i>
"Should anyone have such trial Mint-struck pieces in his possession, they are the property of the United States."
>>
This is a legal opinion not based on deed or title.
There's virtually no chance whatsoever that the government considers this stolen property but
like the existence of the '33 gold it is merely an embarrassment that they don't want to relive
each time the coins come up for auction.
The offer of a reward to see an object is not in any way illegal even if the object is illegal uless,
it is evidence of a felony. Even then it's not the offer that is illegal but failure to report the ev-
idence.
It's funny they don't seem to suffer such embarrassment with the 1804 dollar and it is limited
to thelifetime of the officials who made the errors. rather than holding the official responsible
as they should they instead hold the object itself responsible.
I believe you are wrong on several levels and apologize to the board and our hosts for making
this post which will likely be removed with the all the trash.
Link to Cartwheel--A Sequel to Double Eagle
This coin has been of immense interest for many years so there should be interest in the book.
Gotta say I'm amazed at this reward offer, though. No one in his right mind would step forward...
Mint employee. It is believed this happened one of two ways. 1. Mint employees were permitted to purchase 5 new coins, it is believed
that one employee returned 1934D Peace Dollars instead when they were ordered returned. 2. That the way to the furnace, 5 were
switched.
Five additional specimens are rumored to have delivered to higher ups, but this was never verified.
In 1972, an individual went around to the ANA and showed 5 specimens, offering to sell them for $5,000 each.
A specimen today would easily be worth $150,000.
It would fall under the same category as the 1933 Twenty Dollar gold coin. Removed from the Mint illegally, therefore would be
confiscated by the Secret Service.
In 1969, Marty Goodman created dramatic counterfeit doubled dies.
Mint employee Neisser, who failed to make a 10,000 a minute coining press, examined a genuine 1969-S Lincoln cent doubled die
in 1970 and declared in a counterfeit. Thereafter Secret Service agent John Holtzauer authorized seizure of any specimens.
Five 1969S ddos were confiscated, including 1 at Coin World, and J.M. Kloss's specimen when it was returned from Error Trend Coin
Magazine. These 5 specimens were enevtually melted.
In 1974, the Mint considered striking Aluminum cents, several were distributed to members of Congress. It was decided not to strike these.
I remember a year or two ago, that one of the grading services certified a specimen, I believe it was ICG. I do not believe it was
confiscated. I believe the difference here is that the Mint chose to distributed these as specimens, the same as they have done for the
past 200+ years, almost the same as patterns are distributed, whereas the 1933 and the 1964D were never given, authorized, or were
suppose to leave the Mint.
I believe they would be confiscated and melted.
So if I had one, I would not risk $150,000 for $10,000
It would have to be either first authorized by the Mint/Secret Service that if one was submitted, that it would not be confiscated,
and that PCGS would have to guarentee this in writing for the full value of the coin.
2. Be certified in some other country, where the U.S. secret service could not confiscate it.
Just my two cents.
Kevin
I've never heard that tale.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low.
I've never heard that tale.
MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value.
You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading,
the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me
anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA
as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and
what they were being offered for.
Kevin
<< <i>The $10,000 is for amateurs only:
If you want Real Money...
Bigfoot Bounty: Spike TV Offers $10 Million For Irrefutable Proof Of Legendary Creature
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/10-million-dollar-bigfoot-bounty-spike_n_2067269.html
I'll keep an eye out for BF. I like the payout much better from BF than the coin!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low.
I've never heard that tale.
MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value.
You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading,
the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me
anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA
as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and
what they were being offered for.
Kevin >>
OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that today's Chinese counterfeiters don't even hold a candle to the abilities of the Micro S Morgan counterfeiters who successfully fooled PCGS for years, whose to say that the 5 coins shown, if they were in fact shown, were authentic? Daniel Car himself produced a nice looking 1964-D.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972.
I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal".
Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972.
I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal".
Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars. >>
Anyone who has owned, viewed, or knows of a genuine specimen would be foolish to say anything. They would most likely get a visit
from the Secret Service.
Remember the 1943D Bronze Lincoln cent, everyone thought one existed, but no one could ever prove it. A specimen did not come
to the public eye till the Mint employee who struck it as a novelity died and left it as part of his will, he was afraid of persecution
and loosing the coin.
Even though I have never owned or viewed one, I would bet my reputation that they exist (the 1964D peace dollar, not the Abominable Snowman or Bigfoot)
Kevin
<< <i>
<< <i>OK, before things get out of hand here with these self testimonials, a couple of questions.
Given the fact that multiple "coin dealers" have been "fooled" into purchasing Chinese counterfeit coins in the recent past AND given the fact that the Chinese were not as prolific back in 72, who's to say that those folks that purportedly "viewed" these 5 coins, if they in fact did view them, weren't looking at counterfeits and they didn't even know it? It seems to me, that, given the aura surrounding the 1964-D Peace Dollars that anybody showing off "5" examples at an ANA show would have certainly attracted some type of media attention. Even in 1972.
I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. Even ole Izzy was able to sell 1933 Saints when they were considered "illegal".
Personally, I put the existance of the 1964-D Peace Dollars into the same file as the Abominable Snowman files and the Bigfoot files except that "more" evidence exists for these two creatures than does for the peace dollars. >>
Anyone who has owned, viewed, or knows of a genuine specimen would be foolish to say anything. They would most likely get a visit
from the Secret Service.
Remember the 1943D copper Lincoln cent, everyone thought one existed, but no one could ever prove it. A specimen did not come
to the public eye till the Mint employee who struck it as a novelity died and left it as part of his will, he was afraid of persecution
and loosing the coin.
Even though I have never owned or viewed one, I would bet my reputation that they exist (the 1964D peace dollar, not the Abominable Snowman or Bigfoot)
Kevin >>
No, I don't remember that "particular" coin but given the fact that there are numerous examples of the 1943 Bronze cent and that a couple of 1943-S bronze cents exists within the PCGS Population reports, I see nothing that tells me that there aren't more 1943-D's out there. BTW, did you see a copy of this fella's will or is this simply another "story" which has been passed along?
The name is LEE!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>If I had it, the Secret Service is the first agency I would contact. Or
If I had one, I'd donate it to the Smithsonian Institution and hope the Secret Service didn't confiscate it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It would be better to charge admission to see the piece than to melt it down just to prove it doesn't exist.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. >>
What about this?
It would appear from this that the Treasury is on record here admitting that 1964 Peace dollars were struck.
<< <i>
<< <i>I find it extremely odd that nothing exists in reference to a "1964-D Peace Dollar" other than here say. Its "here say" that they even carried the Peace Dollar Design since no official photographs or even unofficial photographs exist and while man can be incredibly secretive, mankind has shown that eventually, everything comes out. >>
What about this?
It would appear from this that the Treasury is on record here admitting that 1964 Peace dollars were struck. >>
I'll give ya that.
The name is LEE!
Empty Nest Collection
Apparently PCGS wants to scare one out of the woodwork with this offer. Rumors have (once again) been circulating that one of these pieces has been recently seen.
It has long been said that if you know the right person and have enough cash you can own a 1964-D Peace Dollar.
If I owned one, $10 K wouldn't be nearly enough for me to out myself as an owner.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Deliabug: Even if you believed with all your heart that what PCGS was doing was just not right ... don't you think you could have used a bit more diplomatic terms in expressing your opinion on their corporate message board?
I believe DH reported yesterday at the luncheon that they already received an opinion from their attorneys that what they were doing was OK. I could be wrong on that, but I thought I heard that said by DH.
Anyway, on a related note, is it 100% certain that a 1964-D Peace Dollar is illegal to own by anyone out there under any circumstances?
Wondercoin >>
Did DH also say that if they saw one that they would make it public? Or would they keep it discreet?
Wondercoin
<< <i>Why is this pinned to the top? >>
Simple.
To Promote the "TOP" 100 Modern Coins.
List.
You think this will increase the prices paid for the lowly 1996 Silver Eagle?
The name is LEE!
<< <i> PCGS is offering a $10,000 Reward to the first person who submits an authentic 1964-D Peace Dollar to PCGS. This is such an important coin in numismatics that we feel that it should be made public, if one or more examples exist. PCGS also developed a list of the Top 100 Modern Coins which includes the 1964-D Peace Dollar, as well as incorporating it into a Top 100 PCGS Set Registry Set. >>
GOOD LUCK with THAT! Take at least a million for that to happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>Kevin if true, I would think $150K would be extremely low.
I've never heard that tale.
MJ >>
If legal to own, would easily be worth over a million, probably closer to two as there are only 5 believed to exist.
As is not legal, and subject to forfiture, with no means to get anything back, that is why the conservative value.
You could never show anyone, tell anyone, kinda like having stolen artwork.
Remember back in 1967 when DuPont had his collection stolen, and in 1981 some were submitted to ANACS for grading,
the coins were recognized, reported to authorities and they caught the bad guys when coins returned.
You could never sell, or would have to be very careful, as it might be a setup.
When I was researching this subject several years ago, I wrote an article and asked anyone with info to write me
anonymously. I received several letters from different parts of the country, no return addresses. All stated the 1972 ANA
as when the coins were shown. I have confirmed this with several older dealers who remembered seeing the coins and
what they were being offered for.
Kevin >>
The only DuPont coin to come into ANACS in 1981 was the Linderman 1804 dollar, which I recognized from "The Fantastic 1804 Dollar."
TD
Help me out here - I thought the definition of "modern" was anything after the silver era - 1965 and later. ??? Unless the 1964-D $1's were minted in 1965, I'll let it slide!!!
Wondercoin
The first date freeze was in 1964. The country knew it was the last year for silver
in 1964. The Kennedy half started in 1964. The first clad quarter is dated 1964. The
first SMS's were 1964. The cessation of mint and proof sets were almost certain in 1964.
There are 1964 quarters with reverses designed for 1965 as well as clad quarters with
1964 reverses.
There are others as well.
Of course most of the ties to 1964 actually came in 1965 but they still exist and still
can make 1964 part of modern coinage. This silver dollar is tied to 1965 as well since
if not for the removal of silver there would have been many made and it would be com-
mon rather than having bounties (as it were).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The modern era began when the mint started stiking clad coins. >>
Only to "bullion" purists.
Numismatically speaking, Moderns began when the representation of "Liberty" was taken off the front of the coin and replaced with a President's personage. Specifically referring to "Classic" and "Modern" as coin "DESIGNS".
But then, the bullion folks (when coins were worth real money) can't seem to understand this simple concept.
Ooops. I forgot the KISS! (Keep It Simple Stupid) Which in its simplicity, to not confuse the less edumacated, says that 1965 was the year that "Moderns" began.
The name is LEE!
With this coin, it's been said: "Ownership adds a target"
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>The modern era began when the mint started stiking clad coins. >>
Makes as much sense and anything. Silver to clad is a good division point.
When they stop making pennies and go to a zinc nickel, that will be "post modern."