Very true! And most posters can only back their comments from a "just glancing" point of view.
From the pics the obverse appears boldly struck. The three wisps appear to be nearly fully struck, nice defined hair and portrait detail, the letters are holding their higher ridges while on the reverse they appear softer in detail But the upper bell lines, unless they are wiped out from the lighting, are simply not there in the photo.
BUT EVERY TIME FRANKLINS ARE THE TOPIC, THERE ARE NO EXPERTS OFFERING THEIR OPINIONS ON THE GRADE, STRIKE AND EYE APPEAL FOR THIS SERIES.
The master hubs were in their 16th year of production, what should we expect in quality for a coin of this year? Silver was a lot softer than the copper-nickel alloy used for Jefferson nickels so it's likely they used less pressure to strike the Franklins....
Leo >>
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell.
But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>On another note, should we be talking about a guy's purchase before he gets the coin or the return policy expires?
Leo >>
What's the return policy? Lance. >>
And even if there was one, why should it matter? It is a public auction. Surely there will be someone or some people in the collecting universe that dislike this coin (or any other coin in existence for that matter). I doubt the winning bidder cares about the opinions of any of the posters in this thread. >>
He/she might have second thoughts due to negative comments on these boards and return the coin. There are a lot of people who come into a lot of money, millions and treat $27,000 the same way I look at $2.70 change from a $100 bill but it still could affect them in a negative way. A few collectors that post here have stellar coins of the highest qualities and yes, I think there are few collectors that look up to these people for guidance or why would anyone bother posting if the mindset is what you state; 'I doubt the winning bidder cares about the opinions of any of the posters in this thread". Whatever happened to stroking their egos? And there are a few Franklin half collectors posting in this thread.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I have, indeed, refrained from stating my personal opinion on that coin in this thread (and will continue to do so).
In fact, I even represented a collector who asked me to give my opinion of the max bid he/she should place on the coin to try to win it, which was followed. Only thing I will say is my customer was NOT the underbidder on this coin (so I did not come close to earning a lot view fee on this particular coin).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>This amount for a '63 Franklin, or any individual Franklin, is the epitome of money dumbly spent. Simple as that. >>
People likely thought I was insane for holding onto a pop 2/0 coin for seven years! I shared that thought at times myself. Which than sold close to this Franklin and I think it's now a pop 1.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
"People likely thought I was insane for holding onto a pop 2/0 coin for seven years! I shared that thought at times myself. Which than sold close to this Franklin and I think it's now a pop 1."
Don't fret Leo ... not only is your old coin NOT pop 1/0, it isn't even 'top pop" grade anymore!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I've been an avid collector of proof franklins for many years, and love the design. That coin does not inspire any passion in me. If minutia of detail on a few bell lines equals many thousands of dollars, while the coin itself has minimal eye appeal... then dementia of some sort has set in.... >>
Indeed. It's called coin collecting.
On a note about FBL Franklins from 1960-1963, they're rare as hen's teeth, the Philly mint's much moreso than the Denver's, but the strike is way different than the previous years. (See my friend SkyMan's post above).
The rare FBL that really fascinates me, personally is the 53s. Now that's a coin that has always held it's value and I wouldn't even blink at paying a five figure price for a gem FBL example. Of course, the FBL desigination would have to meet MY standards, not what the TPGs seem to designate as a FBL Franklin at times.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell. >>
Actually, Leo, you're quite correct. I've owned a few 60's FBL Franklins over the years (not big bucks gems) but flipped them. I prefer my set to be gem or better, lustrous and relatively well-struck. I don't play the registry game and I've been slowly upgrading my set, actually sets, for almost 20 years and have always been leery of '60s Philly mint FBL Franklins. I just don't see the value.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
You're my kind of collector!
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell. >>
Actually, Leo, you're quite correct. I've owned a few 60's FBL Franklins over the years (not big bucks gems) but flipped them. I prefer my set to be gem or better, lustrous and relatively well-struck. I don't play the registry game and I've been slowly upgrading my set, actually sets, for almost 20 years and have always been leery of Philly mint FBL Franklins. I just don't see the value. >>
You're my kind of collector!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>... But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins. >>
You are correct... that's a brain fart on my part, I meant to say master hub... c'est la vie. Sorry.
One of the fugliest circulating coin designs ever. Needs dipped. FBL, my butt! Ha ha ha...$27K? A fool and his money, etc. etc...
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<< <i>One of the fugliest circulating coin designs ever. >>
Opinions are like...well, you know. >>
I know. I just have this aversion to bald-headed dead heads on coins.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>... But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins. >>
You are correct... that's a brain fart on my part, I meant to say master hub... c'est la vie. Sorry. >>
Go check out a video on my website. There they say they used master dies to strike the president dollars. I'm thinking they meant to say working dies but they didn't.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
The coin is not for sale. To those of you that buy and sell coins thank you for your comments. I am a coin collector. I do not worry about resale. This was the nicest 63 P I had ever seen. Somebody else thought it was nice as well. That's how it became $27,500. .)
By the way, the "matching' pop 2/0 1963-D Franklin in PCGS-MS66+FBL is Lot 1880 in the Teletrade sale today. Opening bid $6,400 FYI. Not sure if you saw that.
Not my coin, but I am assisting the owner with the sale of the piece as I own the other MS66+FBL coin from the pop 2/0 of that date in my personal Franklin set.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i> Of interest for the toning aficionado though is that there are clear linear toning features on the obverse, which is RELATIVELY common on 1959's and 1960's, but I've never seen them on 1963's. >>
Skyman, note that the 1963-P currently in LR's set (see here) also shows linear toning features.
<< <i> Of interest for the toning aficionado though is that there are clear linear toning features on the obverse, which is RELATIVELY common on 1959's and 1960's, but I've never seen them on 1963's. >>
Skyman, note that the 1963-P currently in LR's set (see here) also shows linear toning features. >>
Thank you for the link. As mentioned above I never doubted that the coin was NT, it's just that I hadn't seen that pattern on a '63 before. There are tens of millions of '63's out there, and obviously I haven't seen them all. It's always nice to learn something new.
It's a very attractive set that LR has, I particularly like his '51-S and the '59 P & D.
Rule 5-55: "Never spend over 5K on a post- 1955 coin, regardless of the date, condition or variety".
I'm not a modern guy but recognize that this is way too broad a stroke. How about a mint Red 1969-s DDO cent? There are a number of well recognized modern rarities. How about 1974 Aluminum cents and 64-D Peace Dollars? I'm sure there are post-1955 Franklins I'd gladly pay >$5K even raw. Not likely I'll ever find such a coin.
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin >>
+1
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin >>
The guy's entitled to spend his 27K however he wishes. However, overpaying is overpaying. Everything has a given level that has wide acceptance -- and the further you soar over that amount, the more likely some are to say "you overpaid." Take comics for example. The generally nicest available Action #1 sold for around 2 mil -- if the dentist ever sold his perhaps best-extant copy, he might get 5 mil. Perhaps 10? Hard to say. But if two extremely well-heeled fans saw it come up for sale and decided to not say no up to 100 million (crazy VanGogh territory) it's probable most would say they overpaid -- no matter how nice an Action #1 it is.
and a $100,000,000 comic is similar to a $23,000 finest known Franklin is your point?
I recently sold a Mint State Franklin for around $18,000 at public auction. I figured it at the low end of the range of what I thought it was worth because my consignor really needed it sold ASAP. I was also involved in the sale of another Mint State Franklin for around $35,000 a few years back. There is NOTHING surprising about a $27,000 price tag on a pop 1/0 MS Franklin Half Dollar .. trust me on that. In fact, a Washington quarter just sold for $35,000 this week at Heritage with many more coins between $15,000 - $23,500 that same day. My most expensive Wash quarter in my set was figured at around $37,000 when I closed a deal on it a few years back and, of course, another silver Washington quarter once sold at around $140,000 at auction!
I believe that if I told my customer to bid $28,000 on this 1963-P Franklin, he would have done so on my suggestion that the bid was perfectly fine for the coin. I did not believe this particular coin was worth $27,000 (we all have our opinions), but rest assured there will be another Franklin that appears at auction that I give my customer the "green light" at $27,000 or higher. For a monster Franklin .... believe me $27,000 is no big deal. You will see higher prices in the years ahead just as the prices on Lincoln Cents, Jefferson Nickels and Washington quarters have exploded over the years.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
More power (registry power!) to those who want to pay those sums for superlative-shape moderns... had I any that would grade as such I'll happily be a seller and replace in my collection at an MS-63-5 grade level. Believe me, though I wouldn't pay those prices, I do keep my eyes peeled for any raw pieces that might make the grade.
Specifically speaking, what have the upper echelons for 60-P and 61-D quarters doing these days? Probably not eye-popping prices (it would figure) since I have a few that might be worth a shot at grading.
A 1962-D Quarter in MS67 just sold for $16,450 this past week!! I bought that exact coin for $69 ($60 plus BP) in MS66 when DH sold his company's collection (aka Stella Colbert). I figured I could find another MS67 so I let it go and it fetched around $12,000 at auction when I sold it (it was pop 1 at the time). Even with the coin becoming pop 2 now, it fetched $16,450 this time around at Heritage. I have never been able to slab another MS67 since the time I bought that first coin many years ago.
I still enjoy the fact that I "cherry-picked" DH ... running off with his "five figure" Washington quarter for $69 at public auction. The coin fetched "crazy" money at $16,450 this time at auction (good job Heritage), but if one wants to knock me out of the #1 slot in silver Washington quarters grabbing the pop 2/0 coins I do not own is certainly one way to do it. I feel the heat!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wondercoin, when these people who pay this much for moderns decide they want out and wish to sell, will you give them back 100% of what they paid or ??
I'm wondering if they are buried in these coins and might be lucky to even sell it later for 50% of what they paid, etc
Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Mkman123 - What do you collect? What dealer(s) do you mainly purchase from and do they offer to buy your coins back at 100%? 90%?
Over the past five years, about 95%+ of the coins I have bought and sold have been bought and sold at public auctions. I don't look for "Santa Claus" to bail me out of my buys or sells. I have bought and sold coins where I have made huge returns and have bought and sold coins where I have lost 90%+ of my purchase price or my buyer has made a profit of thousands and thousands of percent. That's just the way it is for classic and modern coins.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
Very true! And most posters can only back their comments from a "just glancing" point of view.
From the pics the obverse appears boldly struck. The three wisps appear to be nearly fully struck, nice defined hair and portrait detail, the letters are holding their higher ridges while on the reverse they appear softer in detail But the upper bell lines, unless they are wiped out from the lighting, are simply not there in the photo.
BUT EVERY TIME FRANKLINS ARE THE TOPIC, THERE ARE NO EXPERTS OFFERING THEIR OPINIONS ON THE GRADE, STRIKE AND EYE APPEAL FOR THIS SERIES.
The master hubs were in their 16th year of production, what should we expect in quality for a coin of this year? Silver was a lot softer than the copper-nickel alloy used for Jefferson nickels so it's likely they used less pressure to strike the Franklins....
Leo >>
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell.
But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>On another note, should we be talking about a guy's purchase before he gets the coin or the return policy expires?
Leo >>
What's the return policy?
Lance. >>
And even if there was one, why should it matter? It is a public auction. Surely there will be someone or some people in the collecting universe that dislike this coin (or any other coin in existence for that matter). I doubt the winning bidder cares about the opinions of any of the posters in this thread. >>
He/she might have second thoughts due to negative comments on these boards and return the coin. There are a lot of people who come into a lot of money, millions and treat $27,000 the same way I look at $2.70 change from a $100 bill but it still could affect them in a negative way. A few collectors that post here have stellar coins of the highest qualities and yes, I think there are few collectors that look up to these people for guidance or why would anyone bother posting if the mindset is what you state; 'I doubt the winning bidder cares about the opinions of any of the posters in this thread". Whatever happened to stroking their egos? And there are a few Franklin half collectors posting in this thread.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
In fact, I even represented a collector who asked me to give my opinion of the max bid he/she should place on the coin to try to win it, which was followed. Only thing I will say is my customer was NOT the underbidder on this coin (so I did not come close to earning a lot view fee on this particular coin).
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why is the new owner of the coin (bought yesterday) presently entertaining offers on it? Am I reading that right?
Wondercoin >>
Maybe because he knows this coin's 'worth' is living on borrowed time. >>
Having just looked at a lot of other just completed auctions I feel this is may be an automated Heritage feature? >>
Bingo.
<< <i>This amount for a '63 Franklin, or any individual Franklin, is the epitome of money dumbly spent. Simple as that. >>
Yup...like I said at the start of this thread.
In fact, I think there should be a 5-55 rule, meaning...
Rule 5-55: "Never spend over 5K on a post- 1955 coin, regardless of the date, condition or variety".
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>This amount for a '63 Franklin, or any individual Franklin, is the epitome of money dumbly spent. Simple as that. >>
People likely thought I was insane for holding onto a pop 2/0 coin for seven years! I shared that thought at times myself. Which than sold close to this Franklin and I think it's now a pop 1.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Don't fret Leo ... not only is your old coin NOT pop 1/0, it isn't even 'top pop" grade anymore!
Wondercoin
Edit: Not.
<< <i>I've been an avid collector of proof franklins for many years, and love the design. That coin does not inspire any passion in me. If minutia of detail on a few bell lines equals many thousands of dollars, while the coin itself has minimal eye appeal... then dementia of some sort has set in.... >>
Indeed. It's called coin collecting.
On a note about FBL Franklins from 1960-1963, they're rare as hen's teeth, the Philly mint's much moreso than the Denver's, but the strike is way different than the previous years. (See my friend SkyMan's post above).
The rare FBL that really fascinates me, personally is the 53s. Now that's a coin that has always held it's value and I wouldn't even blink at paying a five figure price for a gem FBL example. Of course, the FBL desigination would have to meet MY standards, not what the TPGs seem to designate as a FBL Franklin at times.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell.
Actually, Leo, you're quite correct. I've owned a few 60's FBL Franklins over the years (not big bucks gems) but flipped them. I prefer my set to be gem or better, lustrous and relatively well-struck. I don't play the registry game and I've been slowly upgrading my set, actually sets, for almost 20 years and have always been leery of '60s Philly mint FBL Franklins. I just don't see the value.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i> >>
Gosh, Leo, I guess GeorgiaCop50 or JCarney or myself don't know our Franklins.
FWIW I stated my opinion pretty clearly I thought. I mentioned about the strike, e.g. the FBL, and I even mentioned about the odd toning pattern for the date/mm (although IMO the coin is 100% NT). I also stated that the person that bought this coin overpaid by a factor of AT LEAST 100 times more than I would have paid for the coin.
I didn't mention any more about the strike than the FBL because, inherent in my thoughts about a 1963 Franklin is that the Franklin master dies were redone in 1960 because of the degradation of 12 years of use. For all intents and purposes most Franklins from 1960 on have good details in their hair wisps etc. The issue is that the new master dies didn't have as deep a cut for the bell lines, hence the relative difficulty of finding FBL Franklins in the 1960's. Take a look at a common 1959 Franklin and compare it to a common Franklin from the 1960's and you'll see the difference as to the level of detail. I hope that that answers your questions and that at some point in the future you will educate us poor Franklin collectors with words of wisdom from the series that you collect. >>
You're my kind of collector!
I think I'll stick with my ms65FBL Franklins. Just bought a beautiful 1948 and the lines look carved. And it was 86 bucks.
Than JCarney must not collect FBLs after 1959 since those bell lines don't look carved enough into the bell.
Actually, Leo, you're quite correct. I've owned a few 60's FBL Franklins over the years (not big bucks gems) but flipped them. I prefer my set to be gem or better, lustrous and relatively well-struck. I don't play the registry game and I've been slowly upgrading my set, actually sets, for almost 20 years and have always been leery of Philly mint FBL Franklins. I just don't see the value. >>
You're my kind of collector!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>...
But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins. >>
You are correct... that's a brain fart on my part, I meant to say master hub... c'est la vie. Sorry.
U.S. Type Set
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<< <i>One of the fugliest circulating coin designs ever. >>
Opinions are like...well, you know.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
<< <i>One of the fugliest circulating coin designs ever. >>
Opinions are like...well, you know.
I know. I just have this aversion to bald-headed dead heads on coins.
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>
<< <i>...
But I must re-educate myself if the master dies came before the egg, after the master hubs? The master hubs for Jefferson nickels were recut in 1960 as well and I wasn't aware the same was done for the Franklins. >>
You are correct... that's a brain fart on my part, I meant to say master hub... c'est la vie. Sorry. >>
Go check out a video on my website. There they say they used master dies to strike the president dollars. I'm thinking they meant
to say working dies but they didn't.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The toning does leave a lot to be desired, but the coin is actually hammered if you compare to your average 1963-P, and I think PCGS recognizes this.
LOR.
By the way, the "matching' pop 2/0 1963-D Franklin in PCGS-MS66+FBL is Lot 1880 in the Teletrade sale today. Opening bid $6,400 FYI. Not sure if you saw that.
Not my coin, but I am assisting the owner with the sale of the piece as I own the other MS66+FBL coin from the pop 2/0 of that date in my personal Franklin set.
Wondercoin
want to have it reholdered.
To add, if the FUN show is still going on, they might be able to do it there.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i> Of interest for the toning aficionado though is that there are clear linear toning features on the obverse, which is RELATIVELY common on 1959's and 1960's, but I've never seen them on 1963's. >>
Skyman, note that the 1963-P currently in LR's set (see here) also shows linear toning features.
<< <i>
<< <i> Of interest for the toning aficionado though is that there are clear linear toning features on the obverse, which is RELATIVELY common on 1959's and 1960's, but I've never seen them on 1963's. >>
Skyman, note that the 1963-P currently in LR's set (see here) also shows linear toning features. >>
Thank you for the link. As mentioned above I never doubted that the coin was NT, it's just that I hadn't seen that pattern on a '63 before. There are tens of millions of '63's out there, and obviously I haven't seen them all. It's always nice to learn something new.
It's a very attractive set that LR has, I particularly like his '51-S and the '59 P & D.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>This amount for a '63 Franklin, or any individual Franklin, is the epitome of money dumbly spent. Simple as that. >>
I'm not a modern guy but recognize that this is way too broad a stroke. How about a mint Red 1969-s DDO cent? There are a number of well recognized modern
rarities. How about 1974 Aluminum cents and 64-D Peace Dollars? I'm sure there are post-1955 Franklins I'd gladly pay >$5K even raw. Not likely I'll ever
find such a coin.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin
<< <i>If I might interject for just a moment ...
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin >>
+1
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>If I might interject for just a moment ...
Remember, we rarely, if ever, see these type of comments when collectors grossly overpay for classic coins that we know they overpaid for but are proud of owning. And, I am not suggesting that the buyer of this coin grossly overpaid or not (although I did say that the customer I represented who really wanted to own this coin was not the underbidder) ... my point is that it is not the greatest form to speak of fellow board members' buys in this fashion. Food for thought.
Wondercoin >>
The guy's entitled to spend his 27K however he wishes. However, overpaying is overpaying. Everything has a given level that has wide acceptance -- and the further you soar over that amount, the more likely some are to say "you overpaid." Take comics for example. The generally nicest available Action #1 sold for around 2 mil -- if the dentist ever sold his perhaps best-extant copy, he might get 5 mil. Perhaps 10? Hard to say. But if two extremely well-heeled fans saw it come up for sale and decided to not say no up to 100 million (crazy VanGogh territory) it's probable most would say they overpaid -- no matter how nice an Action #1 it is.
I recently sold a Mint State Franklin for around $18,000 at public auction. I figured it at the low end of the range of what I thought it was worth because my consignor really needed it sold ASAP. I was also involved in the sale of another Mint State Franklin for around $35,000 a few years back. There is NOTHING surprising about a $27,000 price tag on a pop 1/0 MS Franklin Half Dollar .. trust me on that. In fact, a Washington quarter just sold for $35,000 this week at Heritage with many more coins between $15,000 - $23,500 that same day. My most expensive Wash quarter in my set was figured at around $37,000 when I closed a deal on it a few years back and, of course, another silver Washington quarter once sold at around $140,000 at auction!
I believe that if I told my customer to bid $28,000 on this 1963-P Franklin, he would have done so on my suggestion that the bid was perfectly fine for the coin. I did not believe this particular coin was worth $27,000 (we all have our opinions), but rest assured there will be another Franklin that appears at auction that I give my customer the "green light" at $27,000 or higher. For a monster Franklin .... believe me $27,000 is no big deal. You will see higher prices in the years ahead just as the prices on Lincoln Cents, Jefferson Nickels and Washington quarters have exploded over the years.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
I still enjoy the fact that I "cherry-picked" DH ... running off with his "five figure" Washington quarter for $69 at public auction. The coin fetched "crazy" money at $16,450 this time at auction (good job Heritage), but if one wants to knock me out of the #1 slot in silver Washington quarters grabbing the pop 2/0 coins I do not own is certainly one way to do it. I feel the heat!
Wondercoin
I'm wondering if they are buried in these coins and might be lucky to even sell it later for 50% of what they paid, etc
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Over the past five years, about 95%+ of the coins I have bought and sold have been bought and sold at public auctions. I don't look for "Santa Claus" to bail me out of my buys or sells. I have bought and sold coins where I have made huge returns and have bought and sold coins where I have lost 90%+ of my purchase price or my buyer has made a profit of thousands and thousands of percent. That's just the way it is for classic and modern coins.
Wondercoin