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1820 $5: The intersection of interests
RYK
Posts: 35,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was on vacation last week and had the opportunity to read, Kevin Cook's The Last Headbangers: NFL Football in the Rowdy, Reckless '70's. In it, I learned for the first time that at the start of Super XIII between the Steelers and Cowboys, George Halas came on the field for the coin toss, and "flipped an 1820 gold piece".
This passage stimulated a number of questions, most of which are probably unanswerable:
1. Where did the coin come from and where did it go afterward?
2. Who decided to use an "1820 gold piece", and what was the logic for doing so? (My first thought was that even Halas was not THAT old.)
3. Was there any concern that the coin might be damaged in the process?
4. Is this even true?
Again, I do not expect any firm answers here but thought it might be fun to bat it around a bit.
Also, as a collector of Steelers memorabilia AND coins, perhaps the 1820 $5 should be in my collection.
This passage stimulated a number of questions, most of which are probably unanswerable:
1. Where did the coin come from and where did it go afterward?
2. Who decided to use an "1820 gold piece", and what was the logic for doing so? (My first thought was that even Halas was not THAT old.)
3. Was there any concern that the coin might be damaged in the process?
4. Is this even true?
Again, I do not expect any firm answers here but thought it might be fun to bat it around a bit.
Also, as a collector of Steelers memorabilia AND coins, perhaps the 1820 $5 should be in my collection.
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<< <i>I'm sure some sharp researchers will come up with an answer to your question if there is one to be had. There is probably an article on coin tosses and the best coins for various occasions. That is a rare coin and the question to me is who was willing to provide the coin without concern for consequences? It was probably dropped on to an astroturf surface so no risk of hitting a rock or other hard object and get damaged. >>
The game was played on grass at the Orange Bowl in Miami. Still, who would want their $10-20k value (today) coin to be tossed for the Super Bowl--risking damage, loss, etc?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Interesting to see in anyone can answer these questions.
EAC 6024
1820? No idea.
<< <i>The Coin Toss A coin toss is a 50/50 proposition. The team designated as the visiting team, the New York Giants, has the opportunity to call the Super Bowl XLVI coin toss. Their captains have stated that they’ll call tails as they have all year. After all, “tails never fails.” The coin used at the Super Bowl is huge coin minted especially for the toss. The team who has won the coin toss really hasn’t had much of an advantage in the game. The coin toss winner has a record of 22-23 during the first 45 Super Bowls. >>
<< <i>"The coin toss was done by George Halas "one of the NFL co-founders in 1920" and "legendary coach of the Chicago Bears." He rode an antique car onto the field and used an 1820 gold piece (Greatest Performances). The Cowboys won the toss and chose to receive the opening kick-off ("Play by Play")." http://suzieoneill.hubpages.com/hub/Super-Bowl-XIII-Rematch-The-Cowboys-vs-The-Steelers-Part-1
That coin (assuming it is a $5, bids at $4200 in AU and $10K in AU, these days, but good luck finding one at that price! >>
Well, at least we know why 1820. Thanks!
Well, why? I don't see it.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Well, why? I don't see it.
100 year anniversary of Halas' first professional team.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
That $1 billion would buy 100,000 coins valued at $10,000 each. I don't think he was worried about it.
I am sure that Mr. Halas and/or the NFL could have afforded to rent one, if not buy one.
TD
Edited to correct:
Oops! For some reason I was thinking this was the 1973 game. It was the Jan. 1979 game. From the 1980 Redbook, which would have been priced in the early Spring of 1979 so that it could go on sale July 1, the Fine-12 was $800, the VF-20 was $1,350, the EF-40 was $1,800 and the MS-60 $5,500.
Still, well within the ability of Mr. Halas and/or the NFL to rent a nice one for the ceremony (did not have to be uncirculated, with guarantees to the owner if there was damage) or just outright buy.
<< <i>George Halas was a very wealthy man. His family continues to own the team which is valued at over $1 billion by Forbes.
That $1 billion would buy 100,000 coins valued at $10,000 each. I don't think he was worried about it. >>
The value of NFL franchises has exploded in recent years. The team and family were worth far, far less in 1978 and even less liquid.
Still, I have to go with the typo hypothesis....simply because using a $5 for an NFL coin toss makes no sense when a $20 would be so much better for the purpose.
Unless of course there was a symbolic reason of some sort for using a coin from 1820 ?
<< <i>Great thread !
Still, I have to go with the typo hypothesis....simply because using a $5 for an NFL coin toss makes no sense when a $20 would be so much better for the purpose.
Unless of course there was a symbolic reason of some sort for using a coin from 1820 ?
When I was working in the coin business I sold lots of coins that were 100 years older than an event, typically a child's birth but sometimes a wedding. There is something about the idea of "...100 years older than..." that fascinates lots of people.
When the silver eagles came out we got a bunch of the Capital Plastic holders that held a current year's eagle and a Morgan dollar 100 years older and sold a ton of them up until 2004, except for the 1993-95 years, of course.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>A 1920 gold piece would make more sense, Halas became involved with the Decatur Staleys in 1920 (Staleys became the Bears five years later).
1820? No idea. >>
100th anniversary of the founding of the NFL's precursor, the APFL?
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Doubt the coin he is holding is a 1820 $5 piece. Look at George grip the coin in his right hand. Looks DE size to me.
The Flip
BTW, that vid is a trip back in time. Wow.
<< <i>George Halas, antique car, coin flip here on youtube, starts at apprx 7:12
Doubt the coin he is holding is a 1820 $5 piece. Look at George grip the coin in his right hand. Looks DE size to me.
The Flip
BTW, that vid is a trip back in time. Wow. >>
At 9:18 the announcer clearly says that the coin was dated 1920, not 1820.
Just before he tosses it, it sounds like Halas says "...the Liberty Lady is heads..." but he was not miked and it is not clear. I never could see the coin, but by the way Halas was holding the copin it looks fairly large. I would assume it was a $20 Saint.
<< <i>
<< <i>George Halas, antique car, coin flip here on youtube, starts at apprx 7:12
Doubt the coin he is holding is a 1820 $5 piece. Look at George grip the coin in his right hand. Looks DE size to me.
The Flip
BTW, that vid is a trip back in time. Wow. >>
At 9:18 the announcer clearly says that the coin was dated 1920, not 1820.
Just before he tosses it, it sounds like Halas says "...the Liberty Lady is heads..." but he was not miked and it is not clear. I never could see the coin, but by the way Halas was holding the copin it looks fairly large. I would assume it was a $20 Saint. >>
Wow, great work.
Two comments:
1. John Brodie's red blazer was ugly, even back then.
2. I think it is likely that it was a 1920 Saint to match the (presumably) 1920 auto, and based on how he held and tossed the coin, it would make the most sense. I would not convict anyone, however, on the basis of this evidence, but it sure makes it easier for me to add a 1920 Saint to the "Important numismatic coins involved in tosses that determine the Steelers fate" collection, along with the 1921 Morgan (which interestingly also involved George Halas' Bears).
Great work, guys!
Edit: I have requested Halas' biography written in 2005 from the library and will see if there is any mention of this coin or of any numismatic interest that Halas may have had.
<< <i>At 9:18 the announcer clearly says that the coin was dated 1920, not 1820.
Just before he tosses it, it sounds like Halas says "...the Liberty Lady is heads..." but he was not miked and it is not clear. I never could see the coin, but by the way Halas was holding the copin it looks fairly large. I would assume it was a $20 Saint. >>
Yep. Announcer continues on, "...the formation year of the National Football League..."
1920 DE. Thats my call. Heads or tails. I'll go tails, 'cause tails never fails.'
<< <i>
<< <i>At 9:18 the announcer clearly says that the coin was dated 1920, not 1820.
Just before he tosses it, it sounds like Halas says "...the Liberty Lady is heads..." but he was not miked and it is not clear. I never could see the coin, but by the way Halas was holding the copin it looks fairly large. I would assume it was a $20 Saint. >>
Yep. Announcer continues on, "...the formation year of the National Football League..."
1920 DE. Thats my call. Heads or tails. I'll go tails, 'cause tails never fails.' >>
Yup.
Link to previous thread about 1921 silver dollar used in coin flip between Steelers and Bears for #1 pick in 1970 draft (Terry Bradshaw)
Or maybe the NFL supplied the coin for the flip and it wasn't George's property at all, they are just thanking him for participating.
Just guesses on my part.
If the flip coin is George's personal coin, I'd speculate it went back in his pocket without significance assigned to it. I'd be surprised if it shows up.
NFL Films probably captured this toss in detail and more could be learned, but NFL Films seems to be in the business of selling it's archives, not releasing them to the public.
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
Isn't even the film for Super Bowl I lost (I think I may have read something about a recovery recently)?
The point being, I bet for a lot of the SBs this information about the toss coin simply doesn't exist - not considered very important at the time, nobody remembers. These days, the special SB toss coin probably goes to Canton. Actually, that would be the first place to go looking for SB toss coin information - there should be a curator there that can help.
The early SBs just didn't have the circus environment like today. My dad paid $20 for me to attend SB X - that was the face value of the ticket.
<< <i>George Halas was a very wealthy man. His family continues to own the team which is valued at over $1 billion by Forbes.
That $1 billion would buy 100,000 coins valued at $10,000 each. I don't think he was worried about it. >>
These guys blow their noses with C-notes!
A gold coin is pocket change to them!