Late die state coins that are tough to grade...

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jayPem
jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
After checking out the 1810 Bust half thread, I thought it would be cool to post some LDS coins that are actually of higher grade than first impressions might suggest....
Any one have any such coins they want to share and perhaps offer grade opinions on ? Here's one to get it started...although it'd probably genuine at our host, tecnically I'd give it a solid VF


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  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I am not great at photographing luster, but this 1801 half dime has quite a lot of it. The obverse die is cracked all the way from north to south. As a matter of fact there is another major die injury that is inside the circumference of stars 8 through 10 that virtually disappears because the die face sank on the right side. This fooled Valentine and caused him to list two varieties in his book which were actually the same variety. There are two 1801 half dime varieties, but Valentine did not know about the second one.

    As a result of this die damage the hair detail is not strong. PCGS graded this coin EF-45. I grade it AU-50. At one time I offered NGC the opportunity to holder this piece if they graded AU-50. They declined my offer. I still think I'm right.

    This coin is really tough in this grade. When I showed it the late Jules Riever many years ago, he recalled seeing it in the past so it has made the rounds among the better collections. I bought this from JJ Tea Party back in the late 1980s.

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    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • STONE
    STONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
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    Here is a VERY late die state of a VERY rare Capped Bust Dime die marriage - 1821 JR-2 (R6).
    Here, the obverse die was shattering causing a weakly struck coin overall, but especially where the die
    was deteriorating at the left obverse stars.

    PCGS called this an AG-detailed piece; my grade is easily VG-8. Use your wisdom when grading coins
    in unusual die states, and don't rely on the TPG's.

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  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cool pieces! The O.107a variety is known for its shattered dies and clashing. This example shows dies that were not especially worn but spectacularly cracked. It has surprisingly good detail and luster. PCGS graded it XF45.
    Lance.

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    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • relicsncoins
    relicsncoins Posts: 8,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How about this piece. The reverse die couldn't have been that far from failing.

    What would you grade this piece?

    imageimage
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • Moldnut
    Moldnut Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭
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    I dont have any good pictures but the 1807 Draped Bust Dimes are a PITA.
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>How about this piece. The reverse die couldn't have been that far from failing.

    What would you grade this piece?

    imageimage >>



    I don't have any idea how to grade dimes...but I might believe AU 50 if these dies were falling apart.
  • BustHalfBrian
    BustHalfBrian Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭
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    These 1809s can be toughies to grade - the majority of the die marriages for this year produced loads of poor-struck coins.

    This one is PCGS VF30

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  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Judging by the luster (pics don't show )and surfaces, this one looks closer to 40 than the 25 it's been graded...still, the grade on the holder is a fine one for the coin over all.
    Just the nature of late state coins and slabs...

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  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Here are a couple of LDS 1814's...a 14/3 and an E/A. Each is a mess. A 30 and a 35.
    Lance.

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    imageimage
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hey JP
    Here is the same variety as the coin in your OP
    1817 O-105a
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    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Another tough one to grade
    1812 O-109a
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    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How about the 1818 O-115a
    There are more planes on this one then LaGuardia sees on an Monday morning.
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    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Another tough 1818, the O-104 a (or b) ?
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    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    While we have 1818's on our minds, how about the 1818 O-105
    Compare this obverse die to the reverse die.
    How about the lapping that totally mangled a good number of the first seven stars.
    And even with that lapping there is heavy clashing that shows the birds entire wing behind the lady.
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    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • leothelyon
    leothelyon Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have seen thousands of coins certified as high as Mint State 67 that would had never graded XF had they circulated. Why? Because they were not imprinted with full details of the original design at the mint. Coins that came from worn dies received little detail. Coins grading XF must have near full details. With mint state coins, this has not been the case. The reason why my coins still remain in the sorted holders I have found them in.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The LDS collection of JRocco rocks !
    Will we ever see a more comprehensive system for sorting out die states in Bust halves ? I like the decimals....

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