Conder101, please call your office! Collectors of plastic will now appreciate that this slab is rare and there is no longer a need to go bonkers over doilies and such, which are merely scarce.
This 1868 Grant presidential campaign medalet very common. You can find one in the inventory of many token and medal dealers. The two things it has going for it is that it is Mint State or very close, and it is extremely well struck for the variety.
The slogan, "I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer," came from a message Grant sent to Washington, DC just before the battle of Spotsylvania Court House on May 11, 1864. It signaled a radical change in the way that the Union Army would fight the Civil War for the remainder of the conflict. Prior to this the Union would fight a big battle and then retire to rest up from that clash, much to Abraham Lincoln's consternation.
In the mean time the South (Lee's Army) would have time to lick their wounds and prepare for the next phase of the war. This policy lengthened the duration of the war. Grant's new policy was to not allow the Army of Northern Virginia no time to rest. He would press the issue until it was resolved.
This piece also emphasized to the voters Grant's status as a Civil War hero, which was one of the cornerstones of his presidential campaign. This point plus the Grant campaign's other major campaign slogan, "Let us have peace," went a long way toward making him president.
That's not a bad story for a really common token.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>I don't think I own a single "rare" coin as defined in the traditional metrics. I guess I've wasted my entire time in the hobby. RYK posted a similar question, a few weeks back, and I blasted him for it. The op deserves the same blast.
The op is likely an elitist with a fat wallet or a good eye for esoteric die-varieties, that wants to think he is some how superior to the 80% to 90% of U.S. coin collectors that tend to buy coins that are for the most part readily available, and are not rare by any real metrics (less than 100 extant or is it even a lower number to qualify for rare?).
As always, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. A collector that buys low pop esoteric items is not superior, to a person that enjoys buying common Franklin halves, or common Morgan dollars. I identify far more with the latter groups than someone collecting colonials, or R7 tokens, or other hard to find items. >>
Since you brought it up, my query was significantly different.
Most of us live in a world of limited resources. If you tie up your money in a coin that is readily available, you may miss the opportunity to buy a coin that is not often available to you when it presents itself to you. As such, I have continued to delay buying coins that I would like to add to my collection (a UHR, a 55DDO, and others that are always available), to have the capital to buy coins that are less available. That is the exact scenario that prompted me to start the thread (which then went off in a variety of directions), and if that it elitist or "nauseating", so be it.
How often do I see people have a fire sale on the BST when a coin that they really need comes available, and they feel compelled to quickly raise funds to buy it. I know that there are times that I wish I had not purchased some "common" coins when I did not have the money to buy the "rare" coin when it came around. I am sure that I am not alone in this.
As for the OP, I cannot state his motivation for starting this thread, other than a masochistic urge, but I think that there is some merit to the idea, and it is certainly something that one should occasionally ask one's self, when making coin purchases--along with a myriad of other questions. It need not be a driving force and making the decision to buy a coin. It need not have any influence at all, but the rarity of a coin often affects its future value to some degree, and some folks are concerned about that. >>
I don't think it is elitist at all to focus on collecting rare coins - it just depends on how much patience you have. I'm currently doing some collection consolidation as a very rare coin just came to the market which meets all of my requirements and I don't want to pass it up. Many coins are very common and when you've waited for a coin for several years and don't want to put too much additional capital into coins, a sell off is required. I expect to at least break even on the coins when selling but I definitely regret buying them now as it's introduced a fair amount of hassle.
Ironically, RYK, the coins you're waiting to buy for the same reasons are exactly some of the ones I've sold off already - 55 DDO/UHR/42 over 1 10c/S VDB/classic HR Saint. All of those are easily replaceable at any show and now that I've owned them, I've satisfied my appetite for them and don't have a need to own them again. Introspectively, I think this is because I know that I can get them again at any time. Knowing that on any day I can take my pick of dozens of each of these, I'm disinterested by them as there's no chase, and while many are attractive coins (the classic HR is indeed a beautiful coin), I'd much rather focus on truly rare coins.
A related comment that resonated with me from another thread a while back was posted by messydesk: Only buy coins that are worth your time to sell. >>
Taken another way, when you so strongly downplay coins SUCH AS a 55 ddo, a 16-D, a HR Saint, what have you, it's a huge slap in the face to those who might dream of owning such a coin or coins, only to hear "Why bother with such common tripe -- you can pick from many at any show - "I" only collect RARE and DESIRABLE coins."
Pfffffffffft. Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. The collecting of comics especially, have introduced me to a world of people in general seemingly much more accommodating of all levels of collecting. While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. Maybe it's the boards here that have done this for me -- even more so than the very meager coins I can afford to collect.
<< <i>Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. >>
Hmmm...that sounds familiar.
But even if you do sell and "get out entirely", the allure of coins will still haunt you.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> Taken another way, when you so strongly downplay coins SUCH AS a 55 ddo, a 16-D, a HR Saint, what have you, it's a huge slap in the face to those who might dream of owning such a coin or coins, only to hear "Why bother with such common tripe -- you can pick from many at any show - "I" only collect RARE and DESIRABLE coins."
Pfffffffffft. Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. The collecting of comics especially, have introduced me to a world of people in general seemingly much more accommodating of all levels of collecting. While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. Maybe it's the boards here that have done this for me -- even more so than the very meager coins I can afford to collect.
Again - pffffffffft. >>
I'm not downplaying them or insulting them at all - I think the HR Saint is one of the most beautiful coins ever designed, and I'm pursuing a collection of overdates, so the 55 DDO and 42/1 D are very important coins and pretty fantastic as overdates come. These are just coins that are much more available than other coins that I've wanted more for longer so I'm selling them to make way for a consolidated, larger purchase. As no one has unlimited funds, I would rather liquidate coins that I know I can buy again to be able to buy one that I doubt I will ever find again.
I apologize for what was perceived as an insult, but everyone collects in different ways. My collection consists of 35 coins and will soon be widdled down to 25, and I'm more happy now than when my collection was ~500 coins.
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
Gosh, it's a shame that others, strangers, have that much influence on how and what you collect. I hope that it is not so in other areas of your life. Good luck with the comic books. I enjoyed them when I was younger.
<< <i>While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. >>
IMO, anybody who would summarize others' collecting interests as a waste of time is someone whose opinion is worthless. Don't let people like that spoil YOUR enjoyment of YOUR collection.
<< <i>It pains me to hear a customer come in and ask for a Presidential Dollar, but with a smile and an attitude of gratitude, I'm happy to oblige them. >>
ty for your discipline.
but seriously, couldn't you had out pamphlets on 17th & 18th century colonial/american coinage along with those dollars .
<< <i>It pains me to hear a customer come in and ask for a Presidential Dollar, but with a smile and an attitude of gratitude, I'm happy to oblige them. >>
ty for your discipline.
but seriously, couldn't you had out pamphlets on 17th & 18th century colonial/american coinage along with those dollars . >>
Nice idea but I think that many presidential dollar buyers will get sticker shock when they see the comparitive prices between their objectives and your goals. It is also harder to relate to 17th and 18th century colonial/American coinage than it is to 19th and 20th century U.S. coinage for the average presidential dollar buyer. I know this from experience when I was YN. I barely looked at the front pages in the Red Book during those years.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
There are a lot of neat, interesting, and desireable coins to collect that are not rare. The 55 DDO cent, most 19th century type coins, the UHR Saint, CC Mint Morgan dollars, Indian $2 1/2 and $5 gold coins with the incused designs, etc etc etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>There are a lot of neat, interesting, and desireable coins to collect that are not rare. The 55 DDO cent, most 19th century type coins, the UHR Saint, CC Mint Morgan dollars, Indian $2 1/2 and $5 gold coins with the incused designs, etc etc etc. >>
Many collectors would regard the items on your list as "rare" or at least expesive. I think the original poster had stuff like 1907 Indian cents, Mercury dimes from the '40s - anything that has a low collector value and is viewed as "very common" and would not be viewed as "special" even in a modest collection.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>There are a lot of neat, interesting, and desireable coins to collect that are not rare. The 55 DDO cent, most 19th century type coins, the UHR Saint, CC Mint Morgan dollars, Indian $2 1/2 and $5 gold coins with the incused designs, etc etc etc. >>
I agree, and apparently if you do not collect them, or strive to collect them, or prefer to collect other things, some folks find it offensive.
Ryk, You do make some valid points. However, as I see it, "rarity" needs some clarification. What if a common or scarce coin has a certain "look" that takes years to find? What if a picky collector views several examples of a specific coin in a particular grade range, but they lack a certain eye-appeal? Finally, after exhaustive searches, the right coin turns up. Let's assume that most would agree that the newly found coin is rare with great eye-appeal, nice toning, etc.
<< <i>Is there really any good reason to fool around with coins that aren't actually rare? >>
Not if you are an investor. However, there are different types of rarity: absolute rarity, condition rarity (e.g., common in 65 but scarce as hen's teeth in 66 or up), and relative rarity (common on an absolute basis, but the collector demand in quite strong).
I collect a variety of numismatic series----I have very rare pieces (ca. 3-20 known), as well as R1 ones. I do not love the rare pieces in my collection any more than the R1 ones.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
There are people among us who have thousands of bank rolled common coins they have saved for decades who would have done much better and had a more fulfilling collecting experience with a small handful of well chosen examples of "rare" coins.
My 2 cents worth, I like rare coins to but it doesn't have to be rare for me to enjoy it. I like to think about the history of a coin and where it has been for the last 150 or 200 years. Somtimes I think rarity is overrated. For instance I can't afford a 1804 draped bust quarter in VF but I can afford a 1805 draped bust quarter in Vf and they both probably have interesting histories. If I could easily afford it I would buy the 1804 but I am very happy with my 1805 under the circumstances. Rarity and scarcity is great and probably will have better rewards if you are concerned primarily about the investment part but for enjoyment I like just old coins to as long as they are attractive.
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not. That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>I can somewhat agree with what he is saying but there is a problem with this line of thinking. People like to collect different things and a design that appeals to one person doesn't appeal to another, also consider a 1955 double die cent is not a rare coin at all but it is such a cool coin that many collectors want one in their collection. Another thing to consider is many people like to dig through junk trays looking for better date walkers, mercs, etc. while these coins are not rare many people like to have an old coin made of silver or say a few $5 lib's just because they are made of gold and are still within the reach of the average collector. >>
Of course, there is a problem. People collect various things, for various reasons. From my perspective, I have never regretted deploying my own limited resources in a "rare" coin, defined by me as one that I have had few and limited opportunities to buy, but have often regretted tying up the money in "common" coins, defined by me as those that are readily available. Most of us cannot have our cake and eat it, too. So sorry if that sounds elitist.
I tend to enjoy most the coins that have been most challenging to buy, as measured by opportunity, not price. >>
I see nothing wrong with your attitude towards collecting as we both love to collect crusty gold coins, some of which I have spent much less than $1,000 on which is far from elitist territory. I have several small town tokens in my collection of which my prized possesion is a nice AU-58 RB 5 cent brass token from the small town where I grew up (one of two known) and it cost less than many "widgets". I do have issue with some here who proclaim owning super rare coins as great investments, especially when they are trying to line their own pockets in the process.
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not. That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change. >>
Bill! Old? Never!!! To me, that 10C could have been used at the 1939 New York World's Fair. Or to buy bread. It's just vantage. I like birds of paradise. I would be equally thrilled with a handful of daisies.
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not. That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change. >>
Bill! Old? Never!!! To me, that 10C could have been used at the 1939 New York World's Fair. Or to buy bread. It's just vantage. I like birds of paradise. I would be equally thrilled with a handful of daisies.
Eric >>
Well, "thrill" is relative thing, isn't it? I'd get a little thrill from finding a VF 1939 dime in change, a bigger thrill from getting a good deal on an an unusually prettily toned Unc 1939 dime, an even bigger thrill from selling it and doubling my money, and an even bigger thrill from spending the money from several such deals combined to buy a nice 1809 dime in VG, and then an even bigger thrill in later adding 1801 and 1797 dimes to the collection. None of it would be a "bother" as a collector even though none of them is truly "rare" though the coins are increasingly scarce as you go along the evolution. Sounds to me like 291fifth has already evolved to the point of only pursuing a very rare, esoteric "secret" collection, having already in the past bought and sold all the more common and scarce types of coins and has no interest in them at the current prices. In my 10 years here he has been the most consistently negative person on mainstream coin collecting and the coin market so he's probably hard to thrill with a coin
Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful Thrill of the hunt If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find Boredom Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Nostalgia Sentimental Value Fun in filling in a book Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die... Impatience You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too. The joy of completion You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated Everybody else is doing it! Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun! Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been!
After reading most of this thread, I gotta say most of you reacted like someone just told you your new puppy was ugly. The OP's question is totally legitimate, and a very interesting one to boot. For the record, I collect all kinds of common dreck, but in the rare instance in which I actually obtain a key date, I gotta say my interest tends to diminish—and I think that's at least part of the point the OP was making. Of course if you're a coin dealer selling lots of common stuff, or a collector with a lot invested in common coins, I can see why you might want to squash any discussion like this, but setting aside these insecurities could lead to a discussion that might actually deepen collectors' passions for what they collect, common or not.
As for me, there's a ton of good reasons to collect common coins, but the more I collect, the more I hold out for quality--and often rarity--when it comes time to actually spend money.
One can easily draw comparisons to other collecting fields. Say cars - I'm not aware of any car collections full of Honda Accords. Wine? What would a collection full of store bought bottles (e.g. mint sets) be called? I'm hard pressed to find another area outside of numismatics & stamps where collecting 'all of it' would apply. I have my coin folders from when I was a kid and they are full of worn out blackened and damaged coins. I like them. They're essentially worthless, but I like them.
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful Thrill of the hunt If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find Boredom Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Nostalgia Sentimental Value Fun in filling in a book Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die... Impatience You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too. The joy of completion You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated Everybody else is doing it! Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun! Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
Yes.
And every coin is literally unique and a collector might have almost any reason to want to add it to a collection. Seen in this light there is simply no such thing as a common coin and even the most common dates can come with very uncommon attributes, wear, conditions, or varieties.
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful Thrill of the hunt If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find Boredom Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Nostalgia Sentimental Value Fun in filling in a book Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die... Impatience You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too. The joy of completion You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated Everybody else is doing it! Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun! Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
You left off the first thing I thought of - investment. (junk 90%)
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:... Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
But is it equally true that because Mitt Romney may have carried that 1988 quarter in his pocket while at Bain Capital? Just think of where that puppy could have been!
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:... Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
But is it equally true that because Mitt Romney may have carried that 1988 quarter in his pocket while at Bain Capital? Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
I guess the only difference would be Romney earned his?
WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
Comments
<< <i>
Conder101, please call your office! Collectors of plastic will now appreciate that this slab is rare and there is no longer a need to go bonkers over doilies and such, which are merely scarce.
Was there ever a CRO writeup of this item?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
This 1868 Grant presidential campaign medalet very common. You can find one in the inventory of many token and medal dealers. The two things it has going for it is that it is Mint State or very close, and it is extremely well struck for the variety.
The slogan, "I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer," came from a message Grant sent to Washington, DC just before the battle of Spotsylvania Court House on May 11, 1864. It signaled a radical change in the way that the Union Army would fight the Civil War for the remainder of the conflict. Prior to this the Union would fight a big battle and then retire to rest up from that clash, much to Abraham Lincoln's consternation.
In the mean time the South (Lee's Army) would have time to lick their wounds and prepare for the next phase of the war. This policy lengthened the duration of the war. Grant's new policy was to not allow the Army of Northern Virginia no time to rest. He would press the issue until it was resolved.
This piece also emphasized to the voters Grant's status as a Civil War hero, which was one of the cornerstones of his presidential campaign. This point plus the Grant campaign's other major campaign slogan, "Let us have peace," went a long way toward making him president.
That's not a bad story for a really common token.
If it is of interest to you that is all that matters.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think I own a single "rare" coin as defined in the traditional metrics. I guess I've wasted my entire time in the hobby. RYK posted a similar question, a few weeks back, and I blasted him for it. The op deserves the same blast.
The op is likely an elitist with a fat wallet or a good eye for esoteric die-varieties, that wants to think he is some how superior to the 80% to 90% of U.S. coin collectors that tend to buy coins that are for the most part readily available, and are not rare by any real metrics (less than 100 extant or is it even a lower number to qualify for rare?).
As always, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. A collector that buys low pop esoteric items is not superior, to a person that enjoys buying common Franklin halves, or common Morgan dollars. I identify far more with the latter groups than someone collecting colonials, or R7 tokens, or other hard to find items. >>
Since you brought it up, my query was significantly different.
Most of us live in a world of limited resources. If you tie up your money in a coin that is readily available, you may miss the opportunity to buy a coin that is not often available to you when it presents itself to you. As such, I have continued to delay buying coins that I would like to add to my collection (a UHR, a 55DDO, and others that are always available), to have the capital to buy coins that are less available. That is the exact scenario that prompted me to start the thread (which then went off in a variety of directions), and if that it elitist or "nauseating", so be it.
How often do I see people have a fire sale on the BST when a coin that they really need comes available, and they feel compelled to quickly raise funds to buy it. I know that there are times that I wish I had not purchased some "common" coins when I did not have the money to buy the "rare" coin when it came around. I am sure that I am not alone in this.
As for the OP, I cannot state his motivation for starting this thread, other than a masochistic urge, but I think that there is some merit to the idea, and it is certainly something that one should occasionally ask one's self, when making coin purchases--along with a myriad of other questions. It need not be a driving force and making the decision to buy a coin. It need not have any influence at all, but the rarity of a coin often affects its future value to some degree, and some folks are concerned about that. >>
I don't think it is elitist at all to focus on collecting rare coins - it just depends on how much patience you have. I'm currently doing some collection consolidation as a very rare coin just came to the market which meets all of my requirements and I don't want to pass it up. Many coins are very common and when you've waited for a coin for several years and don't want to put too much additional capital into coins, a sell off is required. I expect to at least break even on the coins when selling but I definitely regret buying them now as it's introduced a fair amount of hassle.
Ironically, RYK, the coins you're waiting to buy for the same reasons are exactly some of the ones I've sold off already - 55 DDO/UHR/42 over 1 10c/S VDB/classic HR Saint. All of those are easily replaceable at any show and now that I've owned them, I've satisfied my appetite for them and don't have a need to own them again. Introspectively, I think this is because I know that I can get them again at any time. Knowing that on any day I can take my pick of dozens of each of these, I'm disinterested by them as there's no chase, and while many are attractive coins (the classic HR is indeed a beautiful coin), I'd much rather focus on truly rare coins.
A related comment that resonated with me from another thread a while back was posted by messydesk: Only buy coins that are worth your time to sell. >>
Taken another way, when you so strongly downplay coins SUCH AS a 55 ddo, a 16-D, a HR Saint, what have you, it's a huge slap in the face to those who might dream of owning such a coin or coins, only to hear "Why bother with such common tripe -- you can pick from many at any show - "I" only collect RARE and DESIRABLE coins."
Pfffffffffft. Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. The collecting of comics especially, have introduced me to a world of people in general seemingly much more accommodating of all levels of collecting. While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. Maybe it's the boards here that have done this for me -- even more so than the very meager coins I can afford to collect.
Again - pffffffffft.
<< <i>Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. >>
Hmmm...that sounds familiar.
But even if you do sell and "get out entirely", the allure of coins will still haunt you.
<< <i>Was there ever a CRO writeup of this item? >>
yes
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
Taken another way, when you so strongly downplay coins SUCH AS a 55 ddo, a 16-D, a HR Saint, what have you, it's a huge slap in the face to those who might dream of owning such a coin or coins, only to hear "Why bother with such common tripe -- you can pick from many at any show - "I" only collect RARE and DESIRABLE coins."
Pfffffffffft. Conversations such as this have made me rather contemplative in the past few weeks that I could do well to sell everything and get out of coins entirely. The collecting of comics especially, have introduced me to a world of people in general seemingly much more accommodating of all levels of collecting. While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. Maybe it's the boards here that have done this for me -- even more so than the very meager coins I can afford to collect.
Again - pffffffffft. >>
I'm not downplaying them or insulting them at all - I think the HR Saint is one of the most beautiful coins ever designed, and I'm pursuing a collection of overdates, so the 55 DDO and 42/1 D are very important coins and pretty fantastic as overdates come. These are just coins that are much more available than other coins that I've wanted more for longer so I'm selling them to make way for a consolidated, larger purchase. As no one has unlimited funds, I would rather liquidate coins that I know I can buy again to be able to buy one that I doubt I will ever find again.
I apologize for what was perceived as an insult, but everyone collects in different ways. My collection consists of 35 coins and will soon be widdled down to 25, and I'm more happy now than when my collection was ~500 coins.
Gosh, it's a shame that others, strangers, have that much influence on how and what you collect. I hope that it is not so in other areas of your life. Good luck with the comic books. I enjoyed them when I was younger.
And a big PFFFT! To you.
<< <i>While certain coins bring me pleasure still, it rather takes the shine off collecting them when again and again and again, you hear your collecting efforts summarized by others as something of a waste of time, in that the coins you may have assembled (or even dream of owning) are in no way challenging to anyone with "real" collecting instincts. >>
IMO, anybody who would summarize others' collecting interests as a waste of time is someone whose opinion is worthless. Don't let people like that spoil YOUR enjoyment of YOUR collection.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
<< <i>It pains me to hear a customer come in and ask for a Presidential Dollar, but with a smile and an attitude of gratitude, I'm happy to oblige them. >>
ty for your discipline.
but seriously, couldn't you had out pamphlets on 17th & 18th century colonial/american coinage along with those dollars
.
<< <i>
<< <i>It pains me to hear a customer come in and ask for a Presidential Dollar, but with a smile and an attitude of gratitude, I'm happy to oblige them. >>
ty for your discipline.
but seriously, couldn't you had out pamphlets on 17th & 18th century colonial/american coinage along with those dollars
. >>
Nice idea but I think that many presidential dollar buyers will get sticker shock when they see the comparitive prices between their objectives and your goals. It is also harder to relate to 17th and 18th century colonial/American coinage than it is to 19th and 20th century U.S. coinage for the average presidential dollar buyer. I know this from experience when I was YN. I barely looked at the front pages in the Red Book during those years.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>There are a lot of neat, interesting, and desireable coins to collect that are not rare. The 55 DDO cent, most 19th century type coins, the UHR Saint, CC Mint Morgan dollars, Indian $2 1/2 and $5 gold coins with the incused designs, etc etc etc. >>
Many collectors would regard the items on your list as "rare" or at least expesive. I think the original poster had stuff like 1907 Indian cents, Mercury dimes from the '40s - anything that has a low collector value and is viewed as "very common" and would not be viewed as "special" even in a modest collection.
<< <i>The wooden slab is awesome! Hmmmmmmmm
Well, if knock-offs of that wooden slab start appearing soon, at least they'll likely be U.S.-made, rather than Chinese.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>There are a lot of neat, interesting, and desireable coins to collect that are not rare. The 55 DDO cent, most 19th century type coins, the UHR Saint, CC Mint Morgan dollars, Indian $2 1/2 and $5 gold coins with the incused designs, etc etc etc. >>
I agree, and apparently if you do not collect them, or strive to collect them, or prefer to collect other things, some folks find it offensive.
You do make some valid points. However, as I see it, "rarity" needs some clarification. What if a common or scarce coin has a certain "look" that takes years to find? What if a picky collector views several examples of a specific coin in a particular grade range, but they lack a certain eye-appeal? Finally, after exhaustive searches, the right coin turns up. Let's assume that most would agree that the newly found coin is rare with great eye-appeal, nice toning, etc.
Wouldn't that be considered a "rare" coin?
<< <i>Is there really any good reason to fool around with coins that aren't actually rare? >>
Not if you are an investor. However, there are different types of rarity: absolute rarity, condition rarity (e.g., common in 65 but scarce as hen's teeth in 66 or up), and relative rarity (common on an absolute basis, but the collector demand in quite strong).
I collect a variety of numismatic series----I have very rare pieces (ca. 3-20 known), as well as R1 ones. I do not love the rare pieces in my collection any more than the R1 ones.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
That's a shame.
Eric
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not.
That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can somewhat agree with what he is saying but there is a problem with this line of thinking. People like to collect different things and a design that appeals to one person doesn't appeal to another, also consider a 1955 double die cent is not a rare coin at all but it is such a cool coin that many collectors want one in their collection.
Another thing to consider is many people like to dig through junk trays looking for better date walkers, mercs, etc. while these coins are not rare many people like to have an old coin made of silver or say a few $5 lib's just because they are made of gold and are still within the reach of the average collector. >>
Of course, there is a problem. People collect various things, for various reasons. From my perspective, I have never regretted deploying my own limited resources in a "rare" coin, defined by me as one that I have had few and limited opportunities to buy, but have often regretted tying up the money in "common" coins, defined by me as those that are readily available. Most of us cannot have our cake and eat it, too. So sorry if that sounds elitist.
I tend to enjoy most the coins that have been most challenging to buy, as measured by opportunity, not price. >>
I see nothing wrong with your attitude towards collecting as we both love to collect crusty gold coins, some of which I have spent much less than $1,000 on which is far from elitist territory. I have several small town tokens in my collection of which my prized possesion is a nice AU-58 RB 5 cent brass token from the small town where I grew up (one of two known) and it cost less than many "widgets".
I do have issue with some here who proclaim owning super rare coins as great investments, especially when they are trying to line their own pockets in the process.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not.
That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change.
Bill! Old? Never!!!
To me, that 10C could have been used at the 1939 New York World's Fair. Or to buy bread. It's just vantage. I like birds of paradise. I would be equally thrilled with a handful of daisies.
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like maybe some have lost the thrill of a VF 1939 Mercury 10c in the hand? Some have not.
That's a shame.
Eric >>
Sorry, I never was thrilled by a 1939 Mercury dime in VF, but I'm so old that I used to get those in change.
Bill! Old? Never!!!
To me, that 10C could have been used at the 1939 New York World's Fair. Or to buy bread. It's just vantage. I like birds of paradise. I would be equally thrilled with a handful of daisies.
Eric >>
Well, "thrill" is relative thing, isn't it? I'd get a little thrill from finding a VF 1939 dime in change, a bigger thrill from getting a good deal on an an unusually prettily toned Unc 1939 dime, an even bigger thrill from selling it and doubling my money, and an even bigger thrill from spending the money from several such deals combined to buy a nice 1809 dime in VG, and then an even bigger thrill in later adding 1801 and 1797 dimes to the collection. None of it would be a "bother" as a collector even though none of them is truly "rare" though the coins are increasingly scarce as you go along the evolution. Sounds to me like 291fifth has already evolved to the point of only pursuing a very rare, esoteric "secret" collection, having already in the past bought and sold all the more common and scarce types of coins and has no interest in them at the current prices. In my 10 years here he has been the most consistently negative person on mainstream coin collecting and the coin market so he's probably hard to thrill with a coin
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful
Thrill of the hunt
If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find
Boredom
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Nostalgia
Sentimental Value
Fun in filling in a book
Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die...
Impatience
You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too.
The joy of completion
You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated
Everybody else is doing it!
Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun!
Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been!
siliconvalleycoins.com
As for me, there's a ton of good reasons to collect common coins, but the more I collect, the more I hold out for quality--and often rarity--when it comes time to actually spend money.
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful
Thrill of the hunt
If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find
Boredom
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Nostalgia
Sentimental Value
Fun in filling in a book
Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die...
Impatience
You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too.
The joy of completion
You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated
Everybody else is doing it!
Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun!
Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been!
Yes.
And every coin is literally unique and a collector might have almost any reason to want to add it to a collection. Seen
in this light there is simply no such thing as a common coin and even the most common dates can come with very
uncommon attributes, wear, conditions, or varieties.
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:
Even common coins are beautiful
Thrill of the hunt
If you apply strict standards to not so rare coins then they become hard to find
Boredom
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Nostalgia
Sentimental Value
Fun in filling in a book
Rare coins are sometimes literally impossible to find and people eventually die...
Impatience
You are a type collector, and you need the common coins too.
The joy of completion
You think certain common coins are undervalued/underappreciated
Everybody else is doing it!
Common doesn't mean it has no history and hey...history is fun!
Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been!
You left off the first thing I thought of - investment. (junk 90%)
<< <i>For Sale. 1951 D Lincoln Cent. VF. $8400. 1799 Cent. VG $12 >>
I think I'd like the 1799 Cent @ $12.
Eric
<< <i>Are you kidding? I checked the PCGS pops and the 51d in VF is a rarer coin. >>
And if you get tired of it you can just spend it.
Most banks won't take large cents.
<< <i>Are you kidding? I checked the PCGS pops and the 51d in VF is a rarer coin. >>
Just curious as to how this can be consider a valid comparison at all.
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:...
Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
But is it equally true that because Mitt Romney may have carried that 1988 quarter in his pocket while at Bain Capital? Just think of where that puppy could have been!
<< <i>
<< <i>Just read this entire thread and I think it is pretty obvious that there are many many reasons to buy a coin that can be easily had. I sure hope this is the last time we get a thread of this ilk.
Let me 'splain...No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
Reasons to buy coins that are not rare:...
Because Barack Obama may have carried that 1988 AU quarter in his pocket while in grad school. Just think of where that puppy could have been! >>
But is it equally true that because Mitt Romney may have carried that 1988 quarter in his pocket while at Bain Capital? Just think of where that puppy could have been!
I guess the only difference would be Romney earned his?