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Well heres what I've been working on, 1837 large cent possible proof(unhappy results posted)
michiganboy
Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭
Just a note color of coin in image does not represent of true color of coin, coin is more natural brown. pillow its on is also blue not green. I don't know why this is I am not really skilled at photography.
Added this one only for more accurate color , took it with others but turned out blurry
Not trying to imply this is the Starr example but All diagnostics match the Starr example(except damage around star) and coin has mirrors like other 19 century Proof copper I own. Hoping to confirm proof status. What do you guys think? Will attempt better pictures tomorrow as I am off, I am working with no stand or even tripod and a my 3 year old daughter who loves to get into my stuff.
Added this one only for more accurate color , took it with others but turned out blurry
Not trying to imply this is the Starr example but All diagnostics match the Starr example(except damage around star) and coin has mirrors like other 19 century Proof copper I own. Hoping to confirm proof status. What do you guys think? Will attempt better pictures tomorrow as I am off, I am working with no stand or even tripod and a my 3 year old daughter who loves to get into my stuff.
Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
0
Comments
just to connect the dots
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i would prefer to see very good flat images of your coin. some things match up and some don't but that could be lighting.
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All of the diagnostics match up. So would this be Starr's example that sold in 1984, or an entirely different 1837 PR N-8?
Also, I am confused by this: "and coin has mirrors like other 19 century copper I own." Are you saying that all your 19th century copper have prooflike surfaces?
I will also add that your coin is definitely not the Starr example.
can't be an n8 as it has been de-listed. this seems to match the n7 but could still be the coin in the catalog
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<< <i>Can you take another picture of the coin without diffused lighting and straight on? It's hard to judge the surfaces from your photographs.
Also, I am confused by this: "and coin has mirrors like other 19 century copper I own." Are you saying that all your 19th century copper have prooflike surfaces?
I will also add that your coin is definitely not the Starr example. >>
As always forgetting words or misspelling, I meant proof copper. Will go back and edited OP. I will try to take more pictures later, but I really am not that good as you guys probably know. As for right now I am playing with my daughter so more pics will come tomorrow when I'm off and can focus.
type2,CCHunter.
Can you tell us a little about where and how you acquired it?
Lance.
<< <i>There are many areas that match but also many areas that don't match. It is impossible to prove it is a match from this catalog photo imho. MB is their evidence of anything as described around S13?[/q
Not that I can tell have not looked at under magnification yet. Also not clamming this is Starr example, would be nice to know where the Starr example is though.
type2,CCHunter.
Would verifying the history of that coin increase the value?
I wish you luck.
Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
<< <i>All diagnostics match the Starr example(except damage around star) and coin has mirrors like other 19 century Proof copper I own. What do you guys think?
MB maybe you should reword the above, sure makes it seem you are trying to match it to the Starr pedigree as opposed to just the die marriage! That is why I wrote check S13 for possible evidence of a cleaning of the corroision etc., well forget that I guess. >>
It could be I just don't want to assume much as I just received this, more so just want match diagnostics for proof at least. As far as rewording I thought the except damage part would suffice.
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Seriously.
The stars match up perfectly with the photo.
<< <i>If the color of your picture is the true color of the coin, I believe this coin has been recolored. Also, the weakness of strike on the stars on the left obverse argue against this coin being a proof. >>
I thought the same thing about the weakness of the stars, but alas I found PCGS certified proof large cents from this date range that some had this weakness in some stars. Heritage has a few like this. Also I think the large cent proof registry had tru views with coins in this range. I will recheck the large cent proof registry right now.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>If the color of your picture is the true color of the coin, I believe this coin has been recolored. >>
That was my first thought as well, the color just does not seem natural. I don't think you will get a "top pop" coin with that, especially if it has prooflike surfaces and is not a proof.
Edited to add I just looked at the pillow I photographed the coin on and its blue like light blue and on my computer the pillow its on looks green.
Also to add I added a third photo from the ones I took earlier. Its blurry but for some reason its the only one with kinda close to accurate colors.
type2,CCHunter.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Otherwise the apparent coin color will be affected by the background color.
[Edit: the new photos you posted downthread are much better - good work! ]
Your coin apparently has a die break in the dentils near star 13, which is not there in the old auction photo. [Edit: this appears to be a minor rim bump in the improved photo]
Also, your stars 6 and 7 look weaker than in the old auction photo.
Take it easy.....Lion
I purchased it directly from Legend Numismatics 10 years ago.
I will have to look at mine to take a picture and to compare the diagnostics.
I warn all that my photograph skils can be pretty bad as well.
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Please keep us informed.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Agree that not Starr coin either.
Interesting to see what pros say.
type2,CCHunter.
The coin does look like a very nice specimen, but looks too lustrous to have the surfaces of a proof IMO
Best of luck with your submission.
The thing that stands out is just the denticles have that same mushy look at ends
type2,CCHunter.
Nice stars on that Heritage PR63BN one.
There are some interesting die breaks on your coin, as well as softness in the strike of the radial star lines stars (7:00 -12:00 on Obverse) which implies to me that:
1) This is not an early die state (due to die cracks), whereas I'd expect unbroken (early die state) dies for proof striking
2) This was not likely struck as a proof either with high pressure medallic type press (or multiple strikes), to achieve a sharply struck example as typically seen in proofs
I'll be very interested to read other forum member observations and conclusions.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>MichiganBoy: Thanks for posting a very interesting topical thread. Although I'm not a Large Cent specialist, I do collect PL & DMPL coins, and have learned to differentiate the PL's, & DMPL's from true proofs.
There are some interesting die breaks on your coin, as well as softness in the strike of the radial star lines stars (7:00 -12:00 on Obverse) which implies to me that:
1) This is not an early die state (due to die cracks), whereas I'd expect unbroken (early die state) dies for proof striking
2) This was not likely struck as a proof either with high pressure medallic type press (or multiple strikes), to achieve a sharply struck example as typically seen in proofs
I'll be very interested to read other forum member observations and conclusions.
Thanks for your opinion, but if you research early early proof you will find plenty of proof struck with die cracks. The die crack you speak of is a diagnostic for this being a Newcomb 7 and these are known in proofs as well as business strikes. If you look at the PCGS coinfacts images for proofs of this year the have die cracks but not in the same spot because the coin facts images are not the same newcomb varieties. This year N3,N6,N7,N9, & N10 all have known proof strikes for those varieties. Reason is its spread across so many die marriages is because proofs where not struck for the public but for special purposes or people and they would pull out a set of dies and polish them up. Also for your second statement same as above this decade was no where as advance in manufacture of proofs and are well under today's and even late 1800's standards.
Edited to add I can find you a dozen pcgs certified large cent proofs of this year range with weakness in the some of the stars. I found have it in the 1836-1838 range in some cases more stars then mine.
type2,CCHunter.
Proof or not, that is definitely a special coin you found there.
<< <i>Darn nice looking coin! >>
Best of luck and thanks for posting this very interesting thread!
<< <i>
<< <i>Darn nice looking coin! >>
Best of luck and thanks for posting this very interesting thread! >>
Your welcome I try to to get some interesting threads going when I can.
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
I'd be very surprised if the grading service certifies your coin as a proof, but I guess it's worth the investment if you feel strongly about it.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>In my opinion your coin lacks the details shown in the stars to be a proof. It is however a VERY nice looking coin >>
Whats with people not reading my post and follow links with evidence to the common striking issue on Large cent proofs
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>In my opinion your coin lacks the details shown in the stars to be a proof. It is however a VERY nice looking coin >>
Whats with people not reading my post and follow links with evidence to the common striking issue on Large cent proofs
Take it easy now. I was just comparing your coin to the one posted here in this thread.. I am in no way an expert in this series and don't claim to be one. Just my opinion is all. I hope you submit this coin to our host and find out for sure. Good luck....CHD
Now here is a PR 64 N-10 displaying weakness in stars from about 12 o clock to 3 o clock.
Also note the have some luster and also these are not to be compared exactly to mine being mine is a different variety. But just to keep in mind how varying proofs of the early manufacture look due to the fact they where not made for the public but when asked for special purposes.
type2,CCHunter.
Unevenness in the stars was a problem in our early mint.
This is seen on high grade MS examples as well as proofs.
Some flat stars can be seen on a proof in my opinion.