eBay buyer returns coin, appears swapped....what to do?

Dennis88 · November 6, 2012 12:23PM

Tough situation, never happened to me before. Buyer bought a generic coin (modern proof) for about $125, decides he doesn't like it, then returns it. I send out a pristine Proof in an equally pristine capsule, I get back a milk spotted coin with a scratched capsule...I'm hesitant to have this go over with, but know Paypal/eBay will side with him no matter what.

What should I do? First thing I did was to ask the buyer if he swapped the coin, but I'm sure he's gonna deny that. I do have, however, photos of the coin before I sent it out.

Dennis

BAJJERFAN · November 6, 2012 12:34PM

Unless you had the pic of the coin in your listing, you really have no proof that the pic you say represents the pristine coin is actually a pic of the coin that you sent. Seems like it is your word against his that the milk spotted POS that he returned isn't the one that you sent.

File a complaint and refund the metal value of what he returned to you.

Jinx86 · November 6, 2012 12:39PM

Im assuming its not a slabbed piece or you could just compare serial numbers.

pennyannie · November 6, 2012 12:55PM

Refund and move along. You know he did it, he knows he did it and in the end it is just the cost of doing business. He will get his paypack sooner or later in spades. I refuse to get worked up over a 1oo bucks and a loser. Use it as a learning experience to avoid a repeat in the future.

1960NYGiants · November 6, 2012 1:10PM

I would file a complaint with both eBay and Paypal, include the photos in your listing and of what you got back. Strike before he does.

Then block him and out him to us so we can block him too.

VanHalen · November 6, 2012 2:44PM

<< I refuse to get worked up over a 1oo bucks and a loser. >>

This advice from pennyannie is excellent. Damn tough to do (for me) but excellent advice nonetheless.

lava · November 6, 2012 3:09PM

Disagree with post to wimp out. You didn't say no returns, so you opened yourself up to this. You owe it to yourself, if not ebay and others, to see it through to the end. Stand your ground. We know you are the man Dennis, and one negative, worse case, won't change that. Followed my own advice, and proud for having done so. An extra couple of emails probably spared a victim of real damages, and preserved a true collector that likely makes the hobby stronger. Are you so weak that you can't do what you know in your heart is the right thing to do? (Socratic).

Pokermandude · November 6, 2012 3:10PM

I'd fight it on principle alone. Take a photo of what he sent you and open a case through Paypal. Based on the details provided, if you have a picture of the actual coin you sent him, they'll be able to see the difference and file in your favour. They'll probably tell him the deal is done (you keep his $, he keeps your coin) and hopefully also makes him pay you for the return shipping of his bogus coin.

Kove · November 6, 2012 3:27PM

Absolutely file a complaint with eBay. If this is the first such complaint against this user, you may lose. However, if this person has done this before, they'll have a record of the complaint, and you'll have a better shot.

When other posters say to let things like this go, it just leaves a problem out there for someone else to run into.

Pokermandude · November 6, 2012 3:43PM

I'd also be rummaging through his feedback to see if he had bought the same type of coin before. Every little scrap of evidence like that will help increase the chances of winning a claim.

Dennis88 · November 6, 2012 3:49PM

<< I'd also be rummaging through his feedback to see if he had bought the same type of coin before. Every little scrap of evidence like that will help increase the chances of winning a claim. >>

This person has private feedback but has told me privately over e-mail that he has bought multiple examples of this particular coin over the last couple of months.

We'll see what he says tomorrow. I'd like to fight it, just not sure what my best steps are. This person also bought another coin that is still in the return period and I'd rather like to avoid a return on that piece as well, for obvious reasons.

Dennis

Pokermandude · November 6, 2012 3:54PM

I'd only be corresponding with him through Ebay from here on out. If he has admitted buying multiple examples of the same coin, perhaps politely tell him that you think he returned the wrong coin to you.

Also, space out your messages/replies so that when the time comes to open a paypal claim (a pretty wide window), the return period on that other coin will have expired.

GrumpyEd · November 6, 2012 4:57PM

<< I would file a complaint with both eBay and Paypal, include the photos in your listing and of what you got back. Strike before he does. >>

I'd try this just for the principles of it. You have pics, see what they say.
It might not work but I'd try.

Jcarney · November 6, 2012 8:49PM

I hope you fight this tooth and nail. I know there were a lot of problems with crooked ebay sellers years ago, but with the new rules overwhelmingly (and unfairly a lot of times) favoring the buyer, it seems a lot of scams originate on the buyers side now.

Do the sellers here a favor so they don't have to deal with this person. Out them.

PerryHall · November 6, 2012 9:13PM

Fight it as others have suggested and out this clown. Are you sure that he didn't just send you an empty box?

notwilight · November 6, 2012 10:30PM

File the dispute with ebay. You may find that ebay sides with you. This may be the 33rd time the buyer has done this. --Jerry

Senex · November 6, 2012 10:35PM

<< I would file a complaint with both eBay and Paypal, include the photos in your listing and of what you got back. Strike before he does.

Then block him and out him to us so we can block him too. >>

SamByrd · November 7, 2012 12:49AM

<< I would file a complaint with both eBay and Paypal, include the photos in your listing and of what you got back. Strike before he does.

Then block him and out him to us so we can block him too. >>

You need to use the resources to report buyers. Its very important as this guy may do this too others. It may not get a positive result in this instance , but at least the buyer will be on the radar with ebay.

Dennis88 · November 7, 2012 1:02AM

So this is the response I got this morning, as expected:

It's the same coin I received. I did not switch the coin. The capsule could have scratched in transit to either me or back to you

I got to figure out when the return period on the other coin expires. Would it make a difference that he already left positive feedback for that?

Dennis

Dennis88 · November 7, 2012 1:05AM

Oh and what's funny is that the coin is in a plastic pouch (it's a 2012 panda medal, but like all these we're cut open by the distributor so you can take the capsule out) inside a box. It's impossible these things get scratched the way they are packaged.

coinbuf · November 7, 2012 1:33AM

All the pass the buck mentality on this thread makes me want to upchuck, I say fight it win or lose you'll feel better about your actions.

WestySteve · November 7, 2012 2:59AM

Geez, I'd just write him back and call him a liar and ask him how he can live with himself.

Then block his e-mail as spam so he can't replay. Then out him.

Then just go on with your life because you won't win.

Steve

blu62vette · November 7, 2012 3:08AM

I would let him know your situation, college student, etc, tell him you will refund even though unfair and move on with life. Not worth the fight. Then look into ways to protect yourself in future.

It may be a good idea to record via video on your phone opening returned packages.

nencoin · November 7, 2012 4:12AM

I assume he paid promptly, so hopefully you already left him positive feedback. After all, his part of the transaction is done and nothing can go wrong after that......right?

Seriously, though, I'm sorry to hear about this. Good luck.

kiyote · November 7, 2012 4:26AM

You may not get your coin back or a cent refunded, BUT there will be a record of a complaint against a buyer for doing it.

Would a slab serial # really help? All the buyer would have to do is claim "I paid for a MS66 1880 S Morgan but look, the dude sent me a MS63..."
Ebay is notorious for siding with buyers.

Bochiman · November 7, 2012 4:26AM

First thing I would have done would be to say.....

"I recall you saying you have been buying a few of these. For the one you sent back to me, I think there may have been a mistake as it wasn't the one I sent you. I have no issues in taking a return on the one I sent you, but since, as you know, these are not all 100% equal (for instance, the one I sent had no scratches nor did the container have scratches), I would need to have the one I actually sent you returned to me to properly process a return. So, happy to return the one you mistakenly sent to me, if you would like to return the correct one I had sent you. I did take pictures, prior to sending it, as I do with all my coins I sell, so let me know if sending you the pictures will help you properly identify the coin/container.

Let me know if there are any further questions. Also, since you have been buying a lot of these, if you are comfortable with the one I did send you and mistakenly sent this to me for a return instead of the correct person, happy to get this sent back to you and let our transaction stand."

Up to you to then decide how much to push for him paying for you to return the coin.

At the end of the day, you may well be screwed, but I would still call the ebay agent and talk to them and mention the photos you have, and the private email where he is saying he has bought multiples. Maybe he got that screwed up one really cheap and wants to have his cake and eat it too? In that case, if on ebay, ebay may be able to see that...and if there are matching pictures, that may help you.

TomB · November 7, 2012 4:36AM

What is the actual dollar value difference between what you sent out (a pristine, generic $125 coin) and what you received (the same coin, but milky)?

mkman123 · November 7, 2012 4:50AM

fight it, don't allow people like this to get away with things!

Dennis88 · November 7, 2012 6:46AM

<< What is the actual dollar value difference between what you sent out (a pristine, generic $125 coin) and what you received (the same coin, but milky)? >>

There's no real value difference, but these are hard to sell right now the way it is. A spotty coin would be virtually impossible to sell in the current market.

What's really interesting is that the buyer bought another one yesterday. That one has clearly been cut out as well, and he paid $30 extra for it. That for me is enough evidence he's got something fishy going on.

I'll decide on my next step tonight. I'm not a fan of outing anybody on a public forum but since this person has private feedback I don't really care.

It's "ufy66" on eBay.

Dennis

PerryHall · November 7, 2012 7:33AM

<< 

<< What is the actual dollar value difference between what you sent out (a pristine, generic $125 coin) and what you received (the same coin, but milky)? >>

There's no real value difference, but these are hard to sell right now the way it is. A spotty coin would be virtually impossible to sell in the current market.

What's really interesting is that the buyer bought another one yesterday. That one has clearly been cut out as well, and he paid $30 extra for it. That for me is enough evidence he's got something fishy going on.

I'll decide on my next step tonight. I'm not a fan of outing anybody on a public forum but since this person has private feedback I don't really care.

It's "ufy66" on eBay.

Dennis >>

You may want to let ufy66 know about this thread and how many potential transactions that he may miss out on.

ormandh · November 7, 2012 8:00AM

I have dealt with this situation in the past and lost. Unfortunately, you are the evil seller taking advantage of the pristine buyer. In other words, you basically took advantage of the buyer by being the evil seller and switching the coin to reap the almighty benefits. Trust me, unless the buyer has been called on this in the past, you are screwed. It is a lose/lose situation that you will not win. He can say that you switched the coin after the fact unless you have video of the opening of the package and can prove that he sent you a different coin. All you can do is document the problem and hope that it happens again to someone else with the same buyer. You just paid the so-called-tuition of selling and buying in this hobby.

It sucks, but it does happen. -Dan

segoja · November 7, 2012 11:48AM

Is toolhaus.org not working??? tried to lok this guy up, but it gave me nothing.

File the complaint with E-Bay, then add feedback to your original feedback stating that he switched a coin.

grote15 · November 7, 2012 12:01PM

These scammers know how to game the system and I'm sure he's done this more than once. Unfortunately, he will prevail with paypal. At least he didn't send you an empty box back.

pennyannie · November 7, 2012 12:40PM

<< All the pass the buck mentality on this thread makes me want to upchuck, I say fight it win or lose you'll feel better about your actions. >>

Many years ago i felt that way also, but i no longer spend money time and effort fighting. I have never lost an eviction hearing, always sequre a judgement. I spend 200 plus bucks and 2 trips to court and i have yet to recover 10 cents for the 1000's i have spent. I can make the lost money back faster by doing constructive work vs fighting for principle.

Dennis88 · November 8, 2012 2:21AM

So here is my reply to him this morning. I've decided to give him a refund and move on, there's not much more I can do.

I'm very disappointed in this. The coin is not the coin I sent out to you, it was in a plastic capsule inside a plastic pouch inside of a wooden box. There is absolutely no way for minute scratches to appear on the capsule, or for the coin to become spotted like that within a few days that it was on it's way to you and back. I also noticed that you have bought another one of these on eBay three days ago...that coin obviously was not double sealed as you could see in the picture. There would be no reason for you to purchase this coin unless you want to switch another one, since you said yourself that you wanted to wait for a double-sealed one (which do not exist).

I will go ahead and refund your purchase price minus $7 for shipping, which was the cost for me to ship the coin to you (including insurance). Hopefully I will be able to sell the coin you send me for the same price although I highly doubt it since it's not the nicest one out there. I'm a college student and anytime I lose money it hurts, but unfortunately I have to live with some people like you who don't care about morals.

notwilight · November 8, 2012 2:43AM

Some ebay sellers send out raw coins in stapled shut flips with the statement that it can be returned only if not opened. --Jerry

georgiacop50 · November 8, 2012 4:36AM

I would have went with bochiman's excellent reply. Far superior to your own reply. No offense--just sayin'...

eBay buyer returns coin, appears swapped....what to do?

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