"If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, why buy it at all?"

RYK · October 18, 2012 4:37AM

"If you can buy a particular coin for your collection whenever you want, why buy it at all?"

stated differently...

"If a coin is easy to find and easy to buy for your collection, why buy it at all?"

This excludes flips, bullion stacking, and the like. It includes classic or modern US coins that you would buy for a collection.

Discuss, and I will give an example or two later.

Zoins · October 18, 2012 4:42AM

Flipping and bullion could be classified as for-profit acquisitions.

For those not seeking profits, filling a hole comes to mind.

LindeDad · October 18, 2012 4:45AM

Are we to adapt the view that the only ones that are worth collecting are the ones we cannot find?

MidLifeCrisis · October 18, 2012 4:46AM

Ownership is satisfying.

It's about finding the right coin for your collection, to suit your tastes and budget.

mrpotatoheadd · October 18, 2012 4:47AM

"If you can buy a particular coin for your collection whenever you want, why buy it at all?"

stated differently...

"If you can't afford or don't have time to look for coins that are difficult to find, why collect at all?"

okracer · October 18, 2012 4:54AM

I am not sure where your question is heading, but I wonder what fun would the multigazillionaire have completing standard collection sets. Part of the fun is pushing the limits of what is affordable and having to wait to get certain coins. If one could buy the entire Eliasberg collection in one swoop without a drop of sweat, where is the adventure?

johnny9434 · October 18, 2012 5:18AM

in any case i think its cause i like it

RYK · October 18, 2012 5:19AM

The 55 DDO an example of a coin that I really would like to have, but whenever I got to buy one, there are so many, at various price points and looks and slabs and styles that it makes me not want one any longer. They are so readily available that I figure I can get one whenever I want, so I do not want one any longer. Perhaps one day someone will present me an opportunity to buy one that I think is so different from all of the rest that I cannot resist. Or maybe not.

On the other hand, I currently own, not one, but two examples of the 1844-O half eagle. It is easily THE most common New Orleans No Motto half eagle, a relatively common No Motto half eagle, and readily available at coin shows, dealer inventories, ebay, and auctions. I have probably owned no fewer than 6 different pieces over the years. The two that I own both have unusual characteristics that make them special, to me, and for that reason worth owning.

mrpotatoheadd · October 18, 2012 5:22AM

If you "really would like to have" one but never buiy one because they're so easy to find, do you *really* want to have one?

renomedphys · October 18, 2012 5:23AM

1909 SVDB

RYK · October 18, 2012 5:25AM

<< If you "really would like to have" one but never buiy one because they're so easy to find, do you *really* want to have one? >>

I find the fact that they are easy to find a turn-off when I look to buy them. I guess there is no challenge, so no interest. I could list other examples. I tend to like best the coins that I have to work to find. The thrill of the hunt adds to the enjoyment of ownership. Perhaps I am strange in that regard--and maybe others, too.

mrpotatoheadd · October 18, 2012 5:30AM

<< I find the fact that they are easy to find a turn-off when I look to buy them. I guess there is no challenge, so no interest. >>

Nothing wrong with that.

stman · October 18, 2012 5:32AM

Common coins with an uncommon look works for me.

RB1026 · October 18, 2012 5:49AM

Interesting question. I don't know if there is a one size fits all answer either. For the past 25 years I have toyed, at times, with building a complete set of $5 Indians because I love the design. However, every time I seriously begin to consider it, I punt the idea because most of those issues can be had in a single phone call so why bother. Other than a trio, ('09-o, '11-d, and '29) all are readily available in AU. In that regard, there is little challenge it seems (in the grades within my budget) so I don't pursue it.

On the flip side, I have put together a complete set of Sac $ in MS67+ (less the cereal coin). Nothing rare there, except for the Cheerios piece. So, why did I do it? I love the design, they are very inexpensive to collect, and it makes a nice set to display and view. I enjoyed the process of hunting them all down and like to lay them out occasionally on my desk and admire them. I can't explain it but I do.

At the same time, I am working on assembling an "early American history" set. This is a concoction of my own and it includes a 1776 2 Real (Mexico Mint), 1773 Virginia Halfpenny, 1787 Fugio, 1795 Large Cent etc... and none of these would be considered super rare or super common. However, in each case, I wanted to OWN one, not just look at the pics in a book or online.

So, perhaps for me personally, the right question would be......"If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, and it costs more than a dinner out or is not historically pertinent, why buy it all?"

I don't know, it seems to me as the price tag rises I am much more stingy with what I place my interest in unless it ties into early American history.

PerryHall · October 18, 2012 5:50AM

<< "If you can buy a particular coin for your collection whenever you want, why buy it at all?" >>

You buy it so that you can have it, study it, admire it, enjoy it, etc. Just because a coin is easy to find doesn't make it undesirable as a collectible. I see several Pan Pac gold $50 commems at every major coin show but I sure wouldn't mind owning one. Sure beats just looking at a picture of one.

BaseballAbs · October 18, 2012 5:54AM

<< 

<< If you "really would like to have" one but never buiy one because they're so easy to find, do you *really* want to have one? >>

I find the fact that they are easy to find a turn-off when I look to buy them. I guess there is no challenge, so no interest. I could list other examples. I tend to like best the coins that I have to work to find. The thrill of the hunt adds to the enjoyment of ownership. Perhaps I am strange in that regard--and maybe others, too.

>>

Ditto, kind of a no brainer.

CalGold · October 18, 2012 6:00AM

The simple answer is that if you have to search for years to find one you probably can't afford it anyway. So people buy what is available and affordable, perhaps not being aware of this bit of candor from an esteemed board member posted recently in anthoer thread that seemed to catch no traction:

<< the overriding theme was to buy true quality and true rarity. Everything else was for the uneducated masses. The guppies. The fools. In other words, someone else >>

CG

scotty1419 · October 18, 2012 6:04AM

I strongly agree with the statement about most things in life.

We see it a lot here in stellar pieces that are shared - what's the point in buying a generic piece - early on we do this, but with knowledge (of quality or price) we are better able to determine a standout example.

I always strive to find a potential purchase that is either a very nice example for the issue/price. Otherwise, what motivates me to make the purchase.

RYK · October 18, 2012 6:05AM

<< The simple answer is that if you have to search for years to find one you probably can't afford it anyway. So people buy what is available and affordable, perhaps not being aware of this bit of candor from an esteemed board member posted recently in anthoer thread that seemed to catch no traction:

<< the overriding theme was to buy true quality and true rarity. Everything else was for the uneducated masses. The guppies. The fools. In other words, someone else >>

CG >>

I love the quote, did not see it in a thread, but I can guess who might have said it.

Often the search and affordability are not related. For example, I spent nearly a year looking for a suitable 1861 MS dime for my set. My inability to find one made me want it and value it even more now that I have it. Similarly, I am having a heck of a time finding 1861 IHCs. I went to a coin show this spring and again this summer, with 100+ tables, and could not find a single one that did not look like a train had run over it, even in raw average circulated condition.

MilkmanDan · October 18, 2012 6:15AM

For me, this is less about being able to afford a coin and more about how hard it is to find a particular coin. Supply and demand come into play.

I love trade dollars, one reason is that I can afford them despite the fact that the majority of the series is scarce or rare. Look at the pops, then search auction records for 73-S, 75p, 78cc, etc.

Jcarney · October 18, 2012 6:26AM

<< "If you can buy a particular coin for your collection whenever you want, why buy it at all?"

stated differently...

"If you can't afford or don't have time to look for coins that are difficult to find, why collect at all?" >>

^This.

ziggy29 · October 18, 2012 6:38AM

IMO that's a good question for those who are primarily *investors* in rare coins, not collectors. For the collectors... well, we're OCD and we see a hole in the album, so it must be filled!

DeliaBug · October 18, 2012 7:46AM

<< I am not sure where your question is heading, but I wonder what fun would the multigazillionaire have completing standard collection sets. Part of the fun is pushing the limits of what is affordable and having to wait to get certain coins. If one could buy the entire Eliasberg collection in one swoop without a drop of sweat, where is the adventure? >>

Eliasberg did exactly that. All he did was fill the very few holes in the Clapp collection.

Mowgli · October 18, 2012 8:08AM

This question (IMO) is meaningless to set collectors. My 55DDO is also readily available but the one I have is MINE and therefore means more to me than all the others that are out there- plus buying it early was a lot cheaper than if I bought it today.

DNADave · October 18, 2012 8:32AM

<< 

<< The simple answer is that if you have to search for years to find one you probably can't afford it anyway. So people buy what is available and affordable, perhaps not being aware of this bit of candor from an esteemed board member posted recently in anthoer thread that seemed to catch no traction:

<< the overriding theme was to buy true quality and true rarity. Everything else was for the uneducated masses. The guppies. The fools. In other words, someone else >>

CG >>

I love the quote, did not see it in a thread, but I can guess who might have said it.

>>

Sounds like someone trying to define "dreck"

JRocco · October 18, 2012 8:35AM

If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, why buy it at all?

Couldn't you substitute coin with:

car
house
dinner
computer
vacation spot
wife ...

Yeah I know you don't need a coin but you really don't need a beach vacation either.
To me, possession is intoxicating.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 18, 2012 8:38AM

I think the objective is to be able to buy any particular coin whenever one wants, and not being able to is the reason a lot of dealers drink.

I'm just kidding.
Can anyone think of better reasons for dealers to drink ?

Bochiman · October 18, 2012 8:47AM

RYK - you are making me cry

I like my 55DDO.....but, I don't think it looks like "all the others".

I agree with your premise, but sometimes, I just like having something that I can hold/look at any time I want.
Else, I wouldn't have the Dansco albums for Roosies/Jeffies/Washies/etc.

Baley · October 18, 2012 9:05AM

None of the top 10 favorite US coins in my collection have even one example like it on ebay right now. In any condition.

I've got lots of common coins, too, but I almost never buy more of them. I've gotten to the point that I very much agree with the title of this post.

Nickcap · October 18, 2012 10:17AM

<< IMO that's a good question for those who are primarily *investors* in rare coins, not collectors. For the collectors... well, we're OCD and we see a hole in the album, so it must be filled! >>

We have a winner here.

ambro51 · October 18, 2012 10:52AM

I agree with the original post. That's why I have a full set of three cent Feuchtwangers but not a single Franklin half.

Justlooking · October 18, 2012 11:12AM

No two coins are exactly alike. For the right money, virtually every date or mint mark is for sale. But not every coin is for sale.

RYK · October 18, 2012 11:40AM

<< 

<< IMO that's a good question for those who are primarily *investors* in rare coins, not collectors. For the collectors... well, we're OCD and we see a hole in the album, so it must be filled! >>

We have a winner here. >>

I would say the opposite. Coins that trade frequently seem to be more likely candidates for investment than coins that are tough to find.

Sonorandesertrat · October 18, 2012 11:53AM

"Coins that trade frequently seem to be more likely candidates for investment than coins that are tough to find."

ambro51 · October 18, 2012 12:41PM

Except when two or three collectors chase a piece you only see at auction every ten years

Broadstruck · October 18, 2012 12:47PM

I prefer stuff you really need to hunt for...

Not getting all dressed up in camo gear and just filling up the cart at the grocery store

GeorgeKellogg · October 18, 2012 1:42PM

The main point behind RYK's post was the reason that I chose to put together a Green Label Carson City Type Set (instead of Blue Label). Although I thought a Carson City Type Set was an appealing concept (because of the romantic, Old West connection), I was concerned that it would be "too easy" to assemble. I thought that the Green Label requirement, as well as several other set parameters, would make it more challenging (and rewarding). I've been working on it for 27 months and I still have a way to go.

Here's my latest addition to the CC Type Set, from CRO:

Mission16 · October 18, 2012 2:56PM

Because you need it.

Interesting question.

Now imagine it worded this way: "If you know you can have sex whenever you want, why have it at all?"

Oddly enough, the same answer as above. But for different reasons.

ParkieCollector · October 22, 2012 2:22PM

Just think of all the famous sets that were put together when coins were cheaper.
Imagine if someone had said, forget it, I can always get these coins cheap, why bother?
Nowadays you have the added challenge of the plastic slab.
Some people just like the hunt and the negotiation.

RedTiger · October 22, 2012 2:38PM

Folks find any number of ways to pace themselves. They might desire a certain look, a certain price to value ratio, both, a certain grade, a certain holder. Each of these is self selecting. Each enjoys the hobby in their own way.

I'd say 80% of coin collectors buy coins that are deemed readily available by the op. They might self select and limit their universe, but to most dealers the coins are common stuff. Are the 10% or 20% that seek coins that are not, better or worse than the 80%? Richer for sure. Better? I think not. Certainly on this forum dominated by ten-percenters like the op (top 10% in income and net worth), the 10% or 20% method finds a lot of fans, but I find the whole superior smirky attitude, the thread and most of the replies rather nauseating.

rec78 · October 22, 2012 3:37PM

<< IMO that's a good question for those who are primarily *investors* in rare coins, not collectors. For the collectors... well, we're OCD and we see a hole in the album, so it must be filled! >>

An excellent food for thought question however--I think you have just talked me into selling all my 20th century coins including my g-7 yeah almost vg 1901-S quarter.

Bob

musicman · October 22, 2012 4:28PM

<< 
I would say the opposite. Coins that trade frequently seem to be more likely candidates for investment than coins that are tough to find. >>

You got it

TwoSides2aCoin · October 22, 2012 4:29PM

Now I see a hole in my album, and feel dirty for starting it.

Lakesammman · October 23, 2012 1:23AM

I've seen Bochiman's 55-DDO and it's not something you'll see often - it's special and that's what makes it desirable.

roadrunner · October 23, 2012 1:48AM

<< I've seen Bochiman's 55-DDO and it's not something you'll see often - it's special and that's what makes it desirable. >>

If one is discriminating enough they can limit the number of acceptable 55 DDO's to a very small number. In low grade unc try to find one without a
flattened cheek. Or maybe you set your sights on one with a full or nearly full beard, or a very crisp "vdb." Then toss in overall perfect planchet, no spots, even coloration,
early or later die state, etc, etc. In this manner a 55DDO can be just as special as any of the 1844-O's you purchased. One big advantage to buying a 44-0 is the nearly 1/4
ounce of gold it holds. You're essentially buying a coin with a smaller premium to spot than a circ wheat penny. The 55 DDO certainly can't claim that. Most of the 55DDO's
I've run across in slabs seem to be optimistically graded. And maybe that's part me. In any case finding a real choice one was not easy for me.

telephoto1 · October 23, 2012 2:27AM

Am I the only one who thinks the question smacks a bit of elitism?

GeorgeKellogg · October 23, 2012 3:40AM

<< Am I the only one who thinks the question smacks a bit of elitism? >>

The ball is clearly in RYK's court...

CalGold · October 23, 2012 4:14AM

RYK’s statement is not elitist at all. If you have a limited stash of cash and you spend it on common coins that you can pick up at any time, you won’t have the dough ready when a scarcer coin that you have been waiting for comes along. I have read several blogs of well respected dealers telling their clients basically the same thing—they are better off using their coin budget to buy a small number of scarce coins than a large number of common coins.

When folks here start a “box of 20” thread they get kudos. But when they spell out in words what a box of 20 is about they get criticized.

Thinking about it another way, for about the same money I can have 9 MS66 1883-O $1 or one MS64 1883-S. I don’t know about you, but I know which I would rather have. I do understand, however, that if your annual coin budget allows you to buy only one or two 1883-Oesq coins a year, you are unlikely to find it fun to save up for years and years to just to buy one coin, especially when that one coin is not really rare either.

CG

messydesk · October 23, 2012 4:32AM

I currently don't have an 1881-S Morgan dollar in my collection. I can get one whenever I want and in whatever grade I want. I do plan on buying one someday, however, because I want to fill that hole in my collection. It being a common coin has made it a low priority hole, but it is one nonetheless. A similar question could be posed to golfers: Do you tap in your "gimme" putts or do you pick up the ball and move on?

telephoto1 · October 23, 2012 4:33AM

The question implies that only rare and valuable coins are worth buying and that things that one can find more easily, aren't.
That imo seems a bit elitist (though I'm sure it is likely unintentional).

Zoins · October 23, 2012 4:46AM

I don't think the question is elitist and it's a good one to think about.

I think there are good arguments to buying commonly available coins.

I tend to buy commonly available coins (aside from the excluded reasons in the OP) when:

(1) I'm building a set and want to fill a hole
(2) I like the coin's design or some other attribute
(3) Same as #2 above with the addition that I think the price will be higher in the future (though still generally available)

I think collecting common coins can be quite enjoyable. I also believe RYK owns a few common coins himself.

"If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, why buy it at all?"

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&quot;If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, why buy it at all?&quot;

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"If you can buy a particular coin whenever you want, why buy it at all?"