Are you starting to become concerned about the effect high quality counterfeits are going to have on

291fifth · September 27, 2012 12:46PM

I recall when the first of the fake Trade Dollars started appearing from Asia (Late 1990's?). The quality was very poor.

However, we now seem to be seeing fakes of things like 1909-S Indian cents that are so good only the real experts in the field can spot them.

Is this starting to have an influence on the market ... or on your own view of the future of the hobby?

LanceNewmanOCC · September 27, 2012 12:51PM

.
it is having an effect and not just in numismatics
.

Unknown · September 27, 2012 1:19PM

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Zoins · September 27, 2012 1:20PM

There have been very good counterfeits in the past.

How were those stopped?

LindeDad · September 27, 2012 2:02PM

Really good one are not that new. Ωω Omega was around a long time ago.

mkman123 · September 27, 2012 2:05PM

member Twinturbo was selling some that he said were made of silver and could trick even most experts and close in weight until the bst thread was stopped.

ebaybuyer · September 27, 2012 2:20PM

there may come a day when people are afraid to buy any coin that isnt slabbed and nearly covered in stickers. then those of us that learn about what we collect will know that all the time and effort spent educating ourselves was worthwhile

stealer · September 27, 2012 2:24PM

<< Really good one are not that new. Ωω Omega was around a long time ago.

>>

Fakes of the incuse Indian design has been around ever in an effort to smuggle bullion gold into America since gold in the form of coins was allowed but not bars at that time.

RedTiger · September 27, 2012 2:58PM

Starting? How about been? How many millions of dollars worth of fakes have been pushed through Ebay during the past five years? $10 million? $50 million? More than that? Many of those fakes are just sitting in collections. Fake slabs are likely 20% of the dollar volume in fakes, even if they are only 1% of the coin volume.

braddick · September 27, 2012 3:13PM

Here's the opposite effect: Some dealers are so gun shy that they allow genuine coins to slip through. For example, I picked up four what the dealer thought to be counterfeit bust dollars. Each was amazing in their detail- size- weight- and overall appearance. Even then a single example stuck out as totally being genuine (to me).
I gave the dealer my thoughts and he sort of laughed, having purchased the group, along with a half roll of genuine Morgans, at about silver melt, give or take.

I made an offer on the four "bust" dollars, it was readily accepted, and I submitted the single example to PCGS I just couldn't believe was not the real deal.
That single example made it home to me yesterday:

I mean, I knew the coin had been cleaned, (I also think it has AU details, not just XF!) but took the risk it was genuine among the plethora of fakes out there.
I suppose the moral here is be cautious- to be sure, but don't be so convinced the fakes are more genuine in appearance then they truly are.

LanceNewmanOCC · September 27, 2012 3:32PM

<< mean, I knew the coin had been cleaned, (I also think it has AU details, not just XF!) but took the risk it was genuine among the plethora of fakes out there.
I suppose the moral here is be cautious- to be sure, but don't be so convinced the fakes are more genuine in appearance then they truly are. >>

1. good job. to the victor goes the spoils.
2. the good thing about coins like these, especially when in-hand is they can be attributed on top of authenticated.
.

braddick · September 27, 2012 3:34PM

nwcoast · September 27, 2012 4:02PM

I think it's potentially a very serious threat to the future health of this hobby. The quality of the fakes, along with the fake slabs seems to be getting better and better as time passes.

There is a real possibility that new collectors will be spooked and reluctant to purchase expensive items if their credibility isn't SOLID.

I, for one am very concerned!

dcarr · September 27, 2012 4:44PM

<< .... The quality of the fakes, along with the fake slabs seems to be getting better and better as time passes. >>

I think this is a fallacy. The best (most accurate) counterfeits today are no better than some that were made in the 1960s.
Of course, this applies to the coins themselves, not the holders.

PerryHall · September 27, 2012 9:08PM

<< Really good one are not that new. Ùù Omega was around a long time ago.

>>

If you are referring to the Omega-man (he signed his work with a Greek letter omega within the talons on the eagle resulting in his name) counterfeit high relief Saints, they weren't that good and there were many diagnostics. For example, there are numerous tooling marks within the rays of the sun on the reverse.

PerryHall · September 27, 2012 9:18PM

<< 

<< .... The quality of the fakes, along with the fake slabs seems to be getting better and better as time passes. >>

I think this is a fallacy. The best (most accurate) counterfeits today are no better than some that were made in the 1960s.
Of course, this applies to the coins themselves, not the holders. >>

Agree. I'd be more concerned with the effect that high quality counterfeit slabs will have on the market.

Are you starting to become concerned about the effect high quality counterfeits are going to have on

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