Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

MrEureka · September 27, 2012 9:44AM

Not that I have the coin or the opportunity to buy one, but I've always assumed that it could be done legally overseas. Am I wrong? Would the answer be the same in every country?

Ed62 · September 27, 2012 10:01AM

Probably not if the US can prevail in its contention they were obtained by fraud.

LindeDad · September 27, 2012 10:08AM

Non extradition country might work.

Ed62 · September 27, 2012 10:09AM

What country did you have in mind Andy??

dollarsandcents · September 27, 2012 10:10AM

Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

Answer: No, except for the one that is legal to own.

MrEureka · September 27, 2012 10:16AM

What country did you have in mind Andy??

I don't have anything in mind. Maybe one day if I'm offered a coin I'll come up with a plan. Sure seems to me that not that many countries would allow their court system to be used to enforce the US government's wishes on something like this.

LindeDad · September 27, 2012 10:21AM

<< Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

Answer: No, except for the one that is legal to own. >>

American Laws are not the law of the land in all countries.

epcjimi1 · September 27, 2012 10:22AM

I would think if you are a US citizen then no, illegal possession of US gov't property would apply, regardless of where you are.

if you are not a US citizen, then you would not be subject to US law, so yes, you could own it, provided that the host country didn't support US law, extradition, etc.

dollarsandcents · September 27, 2012 10:24AM

<< 

<< Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

Answer: No, except for the one that is legal to own. >>

American Laws are not the law of the land in all countries.

>>

True, but stolen property is stolen property in all countries. And if I'm not mistaken, posession of stolen property is a crime in all countries.

tradedollarnut · September 27, 2012 10:39AM

Just cuz the Government says the one 1933 $20 is the Farouk coin, doesn't mean it is. Or that another country will agree with them.

secondrepublic · September 27, 2012 10:43AM

U.S. law applies in the U.S. Other countries have their own laws, and as far as I know, none of them makes owning a '33 Saint illegal.

MsMorrisine · September 27, 2012 10:49AM

<< 

<< Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

Answer: No, except for the one that is legal to own. >>

American Laws are not the law of the land in all countries.

>>

well, there are other factors.

US laws cover US citizens even when abroad

If a "stolen" item owned by the Fed turns up overseas, the Feds could ask for it back. Getting it back is another story.

RichR · September 27, 2012 10:52AM

Sure...as long as you plan to retire to your own private island and never return to US jurisdiction!

LindeDad · September 27, 2012 11:11AM

<< Sure...as long as you plan to retire to your own private island and never return to US jurisdiction! >>

If I could afford one that sounds like the way to go. Be nicer than up here on the lake.

coindeuce · September 27, 2012 11:16AM

The U.S. Gummint wouldn't try to enforce U.S. law in a foreign country. The State Department would however use strong arm diplomatic tactics, much in the same way that the Italian government used diplomatic pressure on the U.S. to obtain the agreement they've secured regarding importation and ownership of ancient coins that they claim to have eminent domain over.

Coinosaurus · September 27, 2012 12:53PM

I'm not sure "law" applies in this kind of situation. It's more about who has authority and what they decide to do with it, which is beyond predicting.

GrumpyEd · September 27, 2012 1:05PM

<< Answer: No, except for the one that is legal to own. >>

Just the one, that guy got a better deal than the people are getting with the latest batch. He got to split about 6 million with the US treasury when it was sold.

Tells about the legal one

BryceM · September 27, 2012 1:05PM

Murky territory. I'd not put too much weight in opinions except maybe those offered by people with a wealth of knowledge and experience in international law.

SaorAlba · September 27, 2012 8:35PM

The USA doesn't seem to hold a lot of sway with Russia and China at the moment.

BAJJERFAN · September 27, 2012 10:00PM

So the Langbord 10 aren't legal to own, even by Unka Sam?

Unknown · September 27, 2012 10:48PM

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WillieBoyd2 · September 27, 2012 11:53PM

Dear Leader of North Korea welcomes your coins.

BAJJERFAN · September 27, 2012 11:54PM

<< People of real wealth know how to keep their secrets. Have you seen how many numismatic advertisers say how all transactions are completely confidential? That's the way it is and barring a court order, the fourth amendment applies in all of the U.S.. On possibly illegally obtained goods, once again the burden of proof is on the government. If you are outside U.S. jurisdiction, there are many hurdles for the long arm of the law to succeed. But if you wave a red flag you make it 10X easier for government to go after you. If someone submitted a supposedly illegal to own coin for grading at PCGS or NGC in the U.S. or abroad would they be required to notify the government? I don't know. "Possession is 9/10 of the law". >>

HRH has said that they would grade it and return it to the submitter. He did not say however, that they would keep it out of the POP reports.

derryb · September 28, 2012 1:24AM

<< The U.S. Gummint wouldn't try to enforce U.S. law in a foreign country. The State Department would however use strong arm diplomatic tactics, much in the same way that the Italian government used diplomatic pressure on the U.S. to obtain the agreement they've secured regarding importation and ownership of ancient coins that they claim to have eminent domain over. >>

they would just use local law and local courts to recover stolen property - Not like the first time it was ever done.

Nickcap · September 28, 2012 1:32AM

Your better shot is to get a good lawyer and cherry pick the court to file suit vs the govt for ownership.

Stay away from DC and Philly.

Go somewhere like Texas or California. Texas as a state is anti-Big Government and unions. That would probably be the best place to go for ownership of a coin like this. The general opinion of the jury pool would probably have a different result for the Langford case if it was tried away from Philly.

Just my personal opinion.

LindeDad · September 28, 2012 9:25AM

It was not a jury trial was it?

Lakesammman · September 28, 2012 10:59AM

You're asking a bunch of coin chat room weenies??

Why did they wait to seize the last one until it returned to the US?? Must be a good reason...........

Unknown · September 28, 2012 11:03AM

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Elcontador · September 28, 2012 11:43AM

Iran
Pakistan
Lebanon
Syria
Egypt
PRK
China
Russia
anyplace else ending in with a 'stan
Cook Islands
Costa Rica (Robert Vesco is still there after all of these years)
Argentina
Cuba
Venezuela
Ecuador
Iraq
Sao Tome
Zimbabwe
Etc.

Unknown · September 28, 2012 1:00PM

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johnny9434 · September 29, 2012 1:46AM

<< Non extradition country might work.

>>

one might find out that that works best

TwoSides2aCoin · September 29, 2012 1:59AM

I would melt it and use the proceeds to feed homeless people. Charity is not illegal in any place, to my knowledge.

Can a 1933 $20 be legally owned/bought/sold in a foreign country?

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