Van Simmons at DHRC says convert to Saints for Safety! Not an NFL promo.
MilesWaits
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From an article on David Hall's Velvet Tray that I find very interesting:
I have no idea if gold will be outlawed in my life time. But I do feel confident the US Dollar will come under such a massive attack,
that to protect the value of the Dollar against all the other also worthless currencies, and traders, speculators, and gold owners (like
you), the US Government may step in and back the dollar with gold. If the US Dollar is back only 25% or so in gold, it would then be the
strongest currency on earth. And gold would have to be priced at $5,000 to $10,000 an ounce, or more. Now think back to when the
oil companies were first making enormous profits in oil due to the big price run-up. Our government placed a “Windfall Profits Tax” on
their profits. If gold was priced at $5,000 to $10,000 an ounce, it’s easy to picture the President going on TV and saying something like
“But don’t you worry, I will not allow these greedy gold and currency traders who have ruined the value of our US Dollar to profit from this
problem. Therefore we will be implementing a new “windfall profits tax” of 80% on all gold that is sold!” And this will of course seem very
fair to the 99% of the population that doesn’t own gold! So how do you protect yourself from a possible gold taxation
event? The best vehicle I have found is to reposition your gold bullion related coins (Krugerrands, Maple Leafs, US Gold Eagles etc) into US
gold coins minted before 1934, such as US $20 Saint Gaudens and Liberties. Remember, in 1933 the President of the United States classified
them as collector coins, not bullion coins. I am not a lawyer, but I have been told that this is a case law that has been in place for over 80 years. I doubt it will be overturned. I have
personally been trading my US Gold Eagles in for pre-1934 $20 gold coins for this very reason! So this is something you should definitely consider. And I also think vintage gold coins, with
premiums over melt at all-time lows, are great values at today’s prices.
Full article at DavidHall.com which I have zero affiliation with.....
I have no idea if gold will be outlawed in my life time. But I do feel confident the US Dollar will come under such a massive attack,
that to protect the value of the Dollar against all the other also worthless currencies, and traders, speculators, and gold owners (like
you), the US Government may step in and back the dollar with gold. If the US Dollar is back only 25% or so in gold, it would then be the
strongest currency on earth. And gold would have to be priced at $5,000 to $10,000 an ounce, or more. Now think back to when the
oil companies were first making enormous profits in oil due to the big price run-up. Our government placed a “Windfall Profits Tax” on
their profits. If gold was priced at $5,000 to $10,000 an ounce, it’s easy to picture the President going on TV and saying something like
“But don’t you worry, I will not allow these greedy gold and currency traders who have ruined the value of our US Dollar to profit from this
problem. Therefore we will be implementing a new “windfall profits tax” of 80% on all gold that is sold!” And this will of course seem very
fair to the 99% of the population that doesn’t own gold! So how do you protect yourself from a possible gold taxation
event? The best vehicle I have found is to reposition your gold bullion related coins (Krugerrands, Maple Leafs, US Gold Eagles etc) into US
gold coins minted before 1934, such as US $20 Saint Gaudens and Liberties. Remember, in 1933 the President of the United States classified
them as collector coins, not bullion coins. I am not a lawyer, but I have been told that this is a case law that has been in place for over 80 years. I doubt it will be overturned. I have
personally been trading my US Gold Eagles in for pre-1934 $20 gold coins for this very reason! So this is something you should definitely consider. And I also think vintage gold coins, with
premiums over melt at all-time lows, are great values at today’s prices.
Full article at DavidHall.com which I have zero affiliation with.....
Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
0
Comments
So, yes, by economic force it will eventually happen but not gracefully. That time passed when Congress ducked the spending issues last summer.
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"Collector coins" might avoid confiscation, but I doubt that they would avoid heavy taxation if other forms of gold were heavily taxed. Profits on collector coins, like profits on bullion coins, are already taxed, so raising the rates on both types of coins would probably be considered more "equitable" by the general public.
If the government did decide to make such a distinction, the definition of "collector coins" would almost certainly have to include modern commemoratives, proof Gold Eagles and Buffalos, First Spouse, and any other gold coins that the Mint retails to the public. Accumulating these coins would make more sense, because they are much less likely to be counterfeited.
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Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Excellent point, but let's not also forget those proof Platinum Eagles. Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't that metal NEVER been illegal to own in the US throughout history? Besides ... how could you sell all the cars without it !
Wondercoin
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
At that point most of us can pretty much kiss the premiums on our coins goodbye, but even at spot we should make out like kings, lol. If the government imposed a windfall tax on gold that would probably help to drive the price even higher as fewer would be selling, at least selling and reporting it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no chance the dollar will ever again be tied to that barbarous metal called gold. The government doesn't have the discipline or will to stop the ever expanding national debt and money supply. Tying the dollar to gold wouldn't allow this expansion. It'll never happen. >>
Completely agree. The notion is a complete fairy tale. It's wishful thinking by the gold bugs who want to see the metal at $50K an ounce. >>
Gold's heading skyhigh anyway in a currency collapse. I've read that an ounce of Gold in the Weimar Republic of Germany bought an entire commercial block. Got gold?
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"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
1. If gold backing the currency is such a cure for spending, then why did we have the massive credit inflation of the roaring 1920s followed by a depression?
2. Gold is an insurance policy, nothing more.
3. Hyperinflation will only happen if the velocity of money reappears. Thus far, it has not. It has not in Japan, and they have been doing this for decades...and are still dealing with deflationary forces.
In summary, inflation is certainly a concern and I think Mr. Hall's advice is not bad to convert into Saints some bullion gold. Just like anything, be diversified. However, deflation is still a concern, and still what I think needs to happen to heal the country.
Politicians will likely not let deflation happen unfortunately. I think when people look back years from now on what we did and the result of it, we will see that a nasty depression and the expunging of excess debt will be preferential in the long run vice a long decline like Japan and the U.S are embarking on.
siliconvalleycoins.com
The Fed Res went on a money printing rampage way back and took us away from a 1:1 peg with the artificial gold price.
It went as high as 2.5:1
The current fractional reserve system wouldn't be able to over leverage if gold was a backing.
How about a gold/silver alloy of sorts? Yes? No?
Is the FR concerned about you and me or making it's owners happy?
EDIT: Excuse my lack of understanding of the FED and money.
Difficult for me to grasp the creation of money, policies, it's goal, etc.
I know it's used in commerce and so on. Give me a blueprint and I'll
machine the part, to 1/10 of a thousandths of an inch if you want.
Wish it was as easy as machining a part, compared to comprehending the FED and it's function/purpose.
Now a guy needs 66 silver dollars to get one in exchange. We're talking generic, right ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
So in essence you hold whatever you want - and keep your flap shut about it. "Loose lips sink ships".
I knew it would happen.
The thing that gets lost in all of this is the enormous loss of liquidity and value from the crash of the housing market. Between the banks losing their mind and giving money to anyone without regard to the ability to repay, thus causing the housing crisis to then shifting to where they don't want to loan money to anyone (I am overstating, but not by all that much).
The collapse of the housing market killed both the balance sheet of people who owned property and the income statement of people who lost jobs. All those high end kitchens, all the construction due to inflated housing prices and super easy financing, particularly the sub prime market, killed the job market.
The banking structure almost froze completely. And that is why so much liquidity was pumped back into the markets and interest rates were moved to what is now an all time low.
All of that pulled enormous amounts of value out of the economy, everywhere. Thus the worry about deflation.
Buying Saints may be a good way to hedge a portfolio, particularly in weak economic times. If we manage to avoid the fiscal cliff and the market likes the outcome of the election, there may be a significant percent bump in the markets over 6 months.
NEVER put all you eggs in one basket. No one knows where this will all lead and the only real safety is diversification.
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No doubt the whole world isn't likely to be impacted by a gold standard but their are ways for new trade agreements that transfer needed items throughout the world.
I say this not to pick on the point but to try and educate. We have to remember the banks did not "lose their minds" but were threatened by lawyers, "civil rights" groups, and politicians to make the loans. Remember the term "red lining"? We have got to get the story right or we will be doomed to repeat the mistake over and over again.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Old laws get changed, and new laws can be written however the new lawmakers want.
This.
I knew it would happen.
You do want to preserve the best, right?
<< <i>Hypothetically, if the government would say that collector coins are okay to keep, I'm pretty sure that the U.S. bullion coins would not be included in that. They are bullion. Period. The simple way to tell is that they have their metal content directly on the coin AND they're post 1933. I realize some patterns have metal content on them, but I think they're mainly 19th century. >>
First Spouse gold coins have their metal content directly on the coin AND they're post 1933. But they aren't bullion coins, and I doubt they would be included if bullion coins were confiscated. They are collector coins and commemoratives, all of them having been sold by the U.S. Mint to the general public at a significant premium to their metal value.
Ditto for proof Gold Eagles.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no chance the dollar will ever again be tied to that barbarous metal called gold. The government doesn't have the discipline or will to stop the ever expanding national debt and money supply. Tying the dollar to gold wouldn't allow this expansion. It'll never happen. >>
Completely agree. The notion is a complete fairy tale. It's wishful thinking by the gold bugs who want to see the metal at $50K an ounce. >>
Smart gold bugs do not want their metal backing the dollar. Also, just because pre-1934 gold coins were OK the last time around doesn't mean it will stay that way. If one fears the scenario one should be buying gold jewelry. A mouthful of gold teeth is another consideration.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
gold coins minted before 1934, such as US $20 Saint Gaudens and Liberties. >>>
I'm not sure I understand this? Since a 1 oz. gold eagle has a legal tender face value of $50.00 and could technically be used/spent as money just like a Saint, aren't they just as safe to own?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Another excerpt from the article which I have no historical memory of:
The late 1960’s saw a literal run on the US Dollar. In 1971, on a Sunday evening in August, President Nixon interrupted the most
watched TV show at the time, Bonanza. In his televised speech before the nation he stated, “I am determined that the American dollar must
never again be a hostage in the hands of international speculators”. He announced his New Economic Policy consisting of immediate
wage and price controls, a 10% percent surtax on imports, and closing the gold window to foreign government redemptions. The dollar
would no longer be convertible into gold by foreign central banks. Of course, the problems were actually being caused by US deficits and
monetary ease, not the speculators who were buying up gold. The next day the President’s approval rating was over 97%. Everybody
loved the fact that our President saved the day, saved our gold from those “thieves” of the world who were converting their US Dollars to
gold. The gold buyers were blamed for the US Dollar problems on the international currency markets.
I will say i am glad i am in my 50's and not 20 years old now.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>“I am determined that the American dollar must never again be a hostage in the hands of international speculators”. >>
And from this point on it became held hostage by our national speculators over at the FED.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i> Besides ... how could you sell all the cars without it >>
Great point, but Platinum is likely to be replaced by Palladium at some point for the catalytic converters in cars...
<< <i>When they decide to round up the gold and guns i want a front row seat. Talk all you want it ain't going to happen. Rednecks will not play by the rules. How are you going to round up all the law breakers. The vast majority of people would not react the same as they did the first time they took up the gold. If they want to do the first 2 they might as well get the smokes and beer while they are at it. lol
I will say i am glad i am in my 50's and not 20 years old now. >>
Wow. I happen to own gold and guns, but I didn't realize I was a redneck or a lawbreaker(ok maybe a little redneck). It sounds like you think that everyone who fits your stereotype will fight back, and you might be right.
Great point, but Platinum is likely to be replaced by Palladium at some point for the catalytic converters in cars...
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To some extent no doubt. But, check out the science on diesel vs. non-diesel engines.
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I think it's very important to have a percentage of ones hard earned money in the lowest premium US gold coin available as a diversification.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Saint up to MS66 and $20 Libs up to MS65 could be construed as bullionesque. Someday, that clause will come back to haunt the gold coin market. But MS67 Saints and
MS66 $20 Libs are safe.
If gold backing the currency is such a cure for spending, then why did we have the massive credit inflation of the roaring 1920s followed by a depression?
The supposed gold standards reinstituted after WW1 were a far cry from the one that was in effect from 1900-1913. For one, there was no clearance via real bills.
It was a gold standard in name only, not function. The fact that the bankers let credit get out of control had nothing to do with the monetary standard we were on.
Gold backing is not a cure for spending. But it is a means to restore the financial system to soundness after it's been ruined.
There is enough gold held by the US govt to back most of the currency circulating right here in the US. It's the digi-money stored on computers that's not backed by anything.
Paper money is actually quite scarce in the scheme of things considering there's only around $1 to $1.5 TRILL worth of FRN's in existence. US holds around $460 BILL in gold.
The $1.1 QUAD in otc derivatives have acted as a "money supply" with money velocity for the biggest banks. They have not been held back by the lack of key stroked digi-dollars
or the lack of M1 and M2 money velocity. They have their own money system of MD (money derivatives). This risk of the MD market going poof or kaboom is the biggest risk to
our financial system and economy. If one studies world history, the worst hyperinflations have occurred during terrible recessions and depressions. That is because the value of
the paper money fell apart in very short term. The failure of the MD system could do that. Politicians cannot do anything to "fix" the MD system. They lost that opportunity in 2008
when they flushed Lehman and paid out TARP money. Japan never had to worry about holding $320 TRILL in otc derivatives in its top 25 banks. David Hall's suggestion makes
perfect sense to me. You can get a collectible choice BU Saint for a 10% premium to intrinsic value.