A warning for sellers from the sports card forum...

Dennis88 · September 17, 2012 2:49PM

I read some of the other forums once in awhile (always fun to see examples of what other people collect) and this thread caught my eye. Just another reason to document everything when you ship items, either on or off eBay, and to be very careful when dealing with PayPal one way or the other. Hopefully it works out for this guy.

Buyer claims to have gotten two empty boxes, PayPal immediately sides with buyer

robkool · September 17, 2012 3:10PM

OUCH !!!

Tiny · September 17, 2012 3:21PM

He should try and find a forum member that lives close to the address
and have them drop by and say HI.

SoCalBigMark · September 17, 2012 4:19PM

<< He should try and find a forum member that lives close to the address
and have them drop by and say HI. >>

The geek squad?

PerryHall · September 17, 2012 8:09PM

<< He should try and find a forum member that lives close to the address
and have them drop by and say HI. >>

You can always make a bad situation worse and this is one way to do so. Unfortunately, getting scammed is an occupational hazard on eBay and is a cost of doing business.

Cougar1978 · September 17, 2012 8:45PM

This is an example of why I don't sell big ticket items on ebay and just do these at shows. I leave ebay for high profit / relatively low ticket stuff.

Ebay / paypal has no business entering these disputes - they should remain a matter between the buyer, seller, USPS, and their attorneys. It makes me really furious when I read about a seller being ripped off like this.

OPA · September 17, 2012 10:14PM

One must read the entire thread before commenting. Apparently that scam is common on Amazon also.

btw: "It was a deal off of Ebay."

mustangmanbob · September 17, 2012 10:50PM

I was on the "other" end of a similar issue. I bought an NGC silver Eagle using ebay, and the guy offered 5 more that did not sell at a very good price. At the time, I was working in California, so the package went to my home in Dallas. My wife called and said we had received an empty box. The post office person who delivers the mail is very nice, and she had put "RECIEVED WITHOUT CONTENTS" stickers all over the box. I notified both Paypal and ebay, since 1 coin was an ebay transaction and the other 5 were Paypal. It took about 7 days, but all my money was refunded. I also got 2 long scathing, profanity filled emails from the seller. The box was NOT insured and no signature was required, even though it was over $250.

The post lady is very good about inspecting packages, and if it is damaged or something is wrong, SHE marks it before I ever get it. 2 months ago, she brought one to the door that was making "clinking broken glass" sounds. I was a set of 8 crystal glasses to match my wife's China set, and all 8 were totally destroyed. The sender used a few sheets of tissue paper to pack several hundred dollars worth of crystal. Money returned on that one also.

It does help that the postal lady flags an issues BEFORE I get the item. Only 3 items in 5 years, but well worth it.

notwilight · September 17, 2012 11:25PM

This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry

Dennis88 · September 18, 2012 3:35AM

<< This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems.

Dennis

JamesMurray · September 18, 2012 3:44AM

<< One must read the entire thread before commenting. Apparently that scam is common on Amazon also.

btw: "It was a deal off of Ebay." >>

It's not uncommen with coin purchases / sales on ebay either. It's not beyond possible to recieve an empty bubble mailer when what you should have is a 1/10th of gold for example,there's not a thing can be done about that other than buy from trusted sources,selling is a lottery on the bay.

LindeDad · September 18, 2012 3:50AM

The answer to the problem is......Here....

It's mail fraud.

mrearlygold · September 18, 2012 3:55AM

Thanks for the heads up Dennis.

Boy oh boy

TwoSides2aCoin · September 18, 2012 4:39AM

<< The answer to the problem is......Here....

It's mail fraud.

>>

Thank you. That link is worth bookmarking.

johnny9434 · September 18, 2012 5:17AM

<< 

<< The answer to the problem is......Here....

It's mail fraud.

>>

Thank you. That link is worth bookmarking. >>

something legal for something illegal

grote15 · September 18, 2012 7:39AM

If a buyer wants to scam the system, paypal will do very little to nothing at all to help the seller. As Perryhall pointed out, it's the cost of doing
business and the risk you take when you accept a payment via paypal. I do hope that the OP of that thread pursues with mail fraud charges--
sometimes just the threat of taking legal action may help resolve the issue. It's sad that we have to deal with d-bags like this in the hobby and
in the collectibles field in general.

notwilight · September 18, 2012 7:44AM

<< 

<< This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

I don't buy it. As a seller with over 10,000 successful transations on paypal they have stood by me 100%. Never lost a claim. --Jerry

grote15 · September 18, 2012 7:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

I don't buy it. As a seller with over 10,000 successful transations on paypal they have stood by me 100%. Never lost a claim. --Jerry >>

More likely you've just been fortunate that you haven't encountered a thief like this because if a buyer claims a box is empty when they receive it,
Paypal WILL refund them and debit your account. You may wind up prevailing after an investigation if you get enough cooperation from the PO/police
but in the meantime, you will be out the money AND the item without question. The burden is on the seller to prevail in a complaint like this one.

mrpotatoheadd · September 18, 2012 8:18AM

I never lost a PayPal claim, either. Until I did.

Just sayin'...

09sVDB · September 18, 2012 8:19AM

Happened to me years ago with a noncoin shipment. Yes, this IS how they do business

mbogoman · September 18, 2012 8:22AM

<< << This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

Double ditto. I had a guy file an SNAD almost two years after the transaction. The funds were sequestered away almost immediately by Paypal (I had no funds in my account, so it showed up as a negative balance). Fortunately for me, I had done everything by the book and Paypal ruled in my favor within a couple days. BTW - the guy had even left me glowing feedback on how pleased he was with the coin. That didn't help his fraud attempt...

PerryHall · September 18, 2012 8:35AM

<< 

<< << This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

Double ditto. I had a guy file an SNAD almost two years after the transaction. The funds were sequestered away almost immediately by Paypal (I had no funds in my account, so it showed up as a negative balance). Fortunately for me, I had done everything by the book and Paypal ruled in my favor within a couple days. BTW - the guy had even left me glowing feedback on how pleased he was with the coin. That didn't help his fraud attempt... >>

Perhaps he was happy with it for two years until he showed it to some self proclaimed expert that told him it was fake or overgraded.

COALPORTER · September 18, 2012 9:01AM

<< 

<< << This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

Double ditto. I had a guy file an SNAD almost two years after the transaction. The funds were sequestered away almost immediately by Paypal (I had no funds in my account, so it showed up as a negative balance). Fortunately for me, I had done everything by the book and Paypal ruled in my favor within a couple days. BTW - the guy had even left me glowing feedback on how pleased he was with the coin. That didn't help his fraud attempt... >>

Was this an eBay deal? Two years sounds hard to believe ?

OPA · September 18, 2012 9:01AM

<< 

<< << This does not sound like the way paypal does business. My guess is that he violated some paypal TOC. Follow the rules explicitly. --Jerry >>

Oh yes, this is exactly how paypal deals with certain problems. Dennis >>

Double ditto. I had a guy file an SNAD almost two years after the transaction. The funds were sequestered away almost immediately by Paypal (I had no funds in my account, so it showed up as a negative balance). Fortunately for me, I had done everything by the book and Paypal ruled in my favor within a couple days. BTW - the guy had even left me glowing feedback on how pleased he was with the coin. That didn't help his fraud attempt... >>

Maximum Time Statue to file a snad claim is 45 days after the sale. There is no statue on fraud or counterfeit. Which of the 2 did your buyer claim?