Broadstruck should buy this Broadstruck TONIGHT!!!...opinions sought.
keyman64
Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
1919 25c NGC MS67FH Broadstruck 
It's FH by the nature of the error, right? Kinda like a 1945 Mercury Dime that is Broadstruck...most of them have FULL BANDS...
So, the 1919 above has not had any bids yet...will you be the first? What do you think this is worth?
Here is my Merc.
It's FH by the nature of the error, right? Kinda like a 1945 Mercury Dime that is Broadstruck...most of them have FULL BANDS...
So, the 1919 above has not had any bids yet...will you be the first? What do you think this is worth?
Here is my Merc.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
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Especially when in the other type of plastic.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Is this coin over priced?...by how much? How many nice broad struck quarters are there for this series?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It is a well known error as it was previously from the famous Conway Bolt collection of errors that member/dealer FredWeinberg handled in the late 1970's.
The FH details are as it was struck by newer dies as not all B/S and O/C SLQ's are full head.
<< <i>In addition to these coins, I also have a number of fascinating Standing Liberty error coins including a 50% off-center Standing Lib with a legible date (!), and an amazing 1919 Broadstruck graded MS-67 FULL HEAD by NGC. Imagine that: A broadstruck Standing Lib with a crystal clear full head, in MS-67. >>
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<< <i>Keyman64 I held this spectacular 1919 FH SLQ B/S in hand at ANA and the TT scans do not even come close.
It is a well known error as it was previously from the famous Conway Bolt collection of errors that member/dealer FredWeinberg handled in the late 1970's.
The FH details are as it was struck by newer dies as not all B/S and O/C SLQ's are full head. >>
Well, not all B/S 1945 Mercs are FB...BUT, there is a much greater likelihood that they are. Wouldn't this apply to the SLQ?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>So...is this a $47,000 coin? Any sale history? >>
It was sold by Bowers & Merena in 2001 for $26,450 but it didn't sell in at ANA this year.
Just the sold coins alone from the JHF Stacks/Bowers SLQ sale last month realized well over a million and a half. This error, surprisingly, did not sell in that sale. The coin might get one more crack to sell at a major auction and then back to Asia for a long, long time.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
I'd guess that there are two dozen, with most of them being being off-center and from the SF Mint.
The JHF coin is the only one I've seen for the type which is well centered, and it may be the largest diameter known for the series. Fantastic coin!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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<< <i>PCGS has a policy that they do not give the FH designation to broadstruck SLQ's ... otherwise the coin would have already been in a PCGS holder. I am surprised by PCGS' position on this, but what are you going to do. >>
I've never heard this and here's a 13% O/C 1918-S Mint Error that's in a PCGS MS63FH holder.
Maybe PCGS will change the policy one day.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Off-centers get FH ... just not "Broadstrucks".
Maybe PCGS will change the policy one day.
Wondercoin >>
That doesn't make sense as both Off Center and Broadstruck Mercury Dimes get FB designations.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Does it have to do with how it was struck?
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You can only imagine my surprise when I submitted that broadstruck SLQ for my customer earlier this year and I was told the coin could only cross ay PCGS if the owner dropped the FH designation!
Wondercoin
<< <i>PCGS Price Guide says MS67=$2950 and MS67FH=$12,000 .....this coin for $47,000! That's saying that the coin "would have been FH without the error"...kinda like saying my Merc would have been FB without the error.........NOT LIKELY BASED ON POPS. Then because the error is pretty rare for the series and it is this nice they want it to sell for 4x PCGS MS67FH money + buyer's premium. Not for me, even if I had the cash to throw around. I don't think I am the only one to think like this. >>
As Mr.Eureka mentioned there's about 2 dozen SLQ O/C & B/S errors known... Compared to 100's of smaller denomination Mercury dimes errors.
Also this example is the only known centered broadstuck and it's HUGE almost the diameter of a 50c piece planchet.
Now lets get into condition of the 2 dozen as there's a G or VG, some VF's, XF's, AU's, a few MS62's, 63's and 64's...
Then there's this single MS67 with a monstrous ultimate head.
Mentioning it sold in 2001 for $26,450 is meaningless 11 years later...
As if that was posted to establish value I could find few shopping carts worth of coins I'd love to but today at 2001 pricing.
<< <i>Mentioning it sold in 2001 for $26,450 is meaningless 11 years later...
As if that was posted to establish value I could find few shopping carts worth of coins I'd love to but today at 2001 pricing. >>
The reason it was posted was simply because keyman64 asked for sale history. Would it be better to suggest there is no sale history?
That being said, I actually think it's a useful number since it can be used to compare against the price movement of other ultra-rarities over a similar period of time.
<< <i>1919 25c NGC MS67FH Broadstruck
It's FH by the nature of the error, right? Kinda like a 1945 Mercury Dime that is Broadstruck...most of them have FULL BANDS...
So, the 1919 above has not had any bids yet...will you be the first? What do you think this is worth?
>>
Perfectly centered.
Is that on a Type One Blank?
<< <i>Not to mention the coin took a nice bath inbetween its entombment by our host and ATS. What a shame. >>
Was this coin previously slabbed by our host?
It appears this coin was in an old ATS non-prong holder last month and is now sporting a new ATS prong holder. Same grade, NGC MS67FH, last month and this month but in different holders.
<< <i>Interesting, broadstruck coins seem to come with exceptional strikes, for example, this.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Does it have to do with how it was struck? >>
My theory:
When the dies strike a planchet, the planchet gives way to the dies as it is expanding outwards into the collar. Once the planchet smacks up against the collar, the outwards expansion stops and the planchet can no longer give way to the dies, since it has nowhere else to go. The dies (usually) stop before they have been completely filled up by the planchet.
With no collar in place, the planchet keeps expanding outwards while the dies keep driving into the planchet. THe deeper recesses of the dies get filled in.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting, broadstruck coins seem to come with exceptional strikes, for example, this.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Does it have to do with how it was struck? >>
My theory:
When the dies strike a planchet, the planchet gives way to the dies as it is expanding outwards into the collar. Once the planchet smacks up against the collar, the outwards expansion stops and the planchet can no longer give way to the dies, since it has nowhere else to go. The dies (usually) stop before they have been completely filled up by the planchet.
With no collar in place, the planchet keeps expanding outwards while the dies keep driving into the planchet. THe deeper recesses of the dies get filled in.
TD >>
That's what I was thinking, so following that theory, the coin must be very thin in the middle and thicker in the parts outside of the design correct?
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to mention the coin took a nice bath inbetween its entombment by our host and ATS. What a shame. >>
Was this coin previously slabbed by our host?
It appears this coin was in an old ATS non-prong holder last month and is now sporting a new ATS prong holder. Same grade, NGC MS67FH, last month and this month but in different holders. >>
Oops, I didn't realize it was already in an ATS slab. Either way most of the tarnish is gone.
<< <i>Perfectly centered.
Is that on a Type One Blank? >>
Yes non upset T-1 PL.
<< <i>Either way most of the tarnish is gone. >>
I noticed the difference in the photos too and I'm surprised nobody else commented on this.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to mention the coin took a nice bath inbetween its entombment by our host and ATS. What a shame. >>
Was this coin previously slabbed by our host?
It appears this coin was in an old ATS non-prong holder last month and is now sporting a new ATS prong holder. Same grade, NGC MS67FH, last month and this month but in different holders. >>
Oops, I didn't realize it was already in an ATS slab. Either way most of the tarnish is gone. >>
I recall it already having been in a pronged holder at ANA with the J.H.F pedigree.
This SLQ hasn't been played with as neither S/B's pics nor TT's scans are true... It still looks the same as it did when it sold at ANA 2001.
It's never been in a PCGS holder which is no biggie as slab brand doesn't matter much to error collectors.
You'll also see it's brighter then the S/B pics.
At lot viewing all the Just Having Fun NGC error and duplicate SLQ's had been re-holdered with the pedigree in the new pronged holders.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mentioning it sold in 2001 for $26,450 is meaningless 11 years later...
As if that was posted to establish value I could find few shopping carts worth of coins I'd love to but today at 2001 pricing. >>
The reason it was posted was simply because keyman64 asked for sale history. Would it be better to suggest there is no sale history?
That being said, I actually think it's a useful number since it can be used to compare against the price movement of other ultra-rarities over a similar period of time. >>
No it's fine keyman64 was also trying to justify value by glancing at non error MS67FH pricing.
4x PCGS value is actually cheap for an error as it isn't uncommon for some to sell for 20, 30, 50, or even 3500x their non error counterparts.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting, broadstruck coins seem to come with exceptional strikes, for example, this.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Does it have to do with how it was struck? >>
My theory:
When the dies strike a planchet, the planchet gives way to the dies as it is expanding outwards into the collar. Once the planchet smacks up against the collar, the outwards expansion stops and the planchet can no longer give way to the dies, since it has nowhere else to go. The dies (usually) stop before they have been completely filled up by the planchet.
With no collar in place, the planchet keeps expanding outwards while the dies keep driving into the planchet. THe deeper recesses of the dies get filled in.
TD >>
That's what I was thinking, so following that theory, the coin must be very thin in the middle and thicker in the parts outside of the design correct? >>
Basically, yes. As a rule, each side of a coin is concave. This brings the fields closer together (measured through the coin) near the centers, and allows for greater movement of metal into the designs. Problems arise when you have large designs on both sides of the coin, forcing the metal to try to move both ways at the same time.
Longacre's $1 and $3 gold designs were deliberately designed with a minimum of raised metal in the centers of the reverses to provide for metal flow into the obverse heads. The Lincoln/Wheat Ears cent used the same principle.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Well, for tonight, it seems the viewers(that actually had the money) of the auction did not think it was worth $54K. >>
TT IHMO isn't the right venue for any of the JHF SLQ's.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Mentioning it sold in 2001 for $26,450 is meaningless 11 years later...
As if that was posted to establish value I could find few shopping carts worth of coins I'd love to but today at 2001 pricing. >>
The reason it was posted was simply because keyman64 asked for sale history. Would it be better to suggest there is no sale history?
That being said, I actually think it's a useful number since it can be used to compare against the price movement of other ultra-rarities over a similar period of time. >>
No it's fine keyman64 was also trying to justify value by glancing at non error MS67FH pricing.
4x PCGS value is actually cheap for an error as it isn't uncommon for some to sell for 20, 30, 50, or even 3500x their non error counterparts. >>
I agree it's hard to gauge error pricing using non-error pricing since the quality and uniqueness of error can vary widely as you mention above.
I sold this 1919 SLQ, from the Bolt Collection,
in 1974, for $600....
It was spectacular then, and remains so.......
<< <i>For those of you who like Pedigree's -
I sold this 1919 SLQ, from the Bolt Collection,
in 1974, for $600....
It was spectacular then, and remains so....... >>
Great history and comment on the look Fred.
I love being able to track the pedigree and look of unique coins through time.