Update on stolen Herd of Buffalos Need Advise
DaggoB
Posts: 333 ✭✭
My wife recived a telephone call today from a USPS representative telling her that the six Buffs which were removed from their package on the way to CAC in June are coins and not collectables therefore they are sending us a check for $15.They were insured for $1500 but maybe they were worth more or maybe less. The representative told my wife that she should have mailed the package registered if they were that valuable. That statement alone means, send them so they will be locked up because we have crooks in our system.The advise I need is. Does anybody have telephone numbers or an E-Mail address of someone I can contact to dispute this. My wife has been on the phone all day and keeps getting the run around from everyone she has talked to. I have been through the USPS web site and the Inspector General web site and all I can come up with are the same forms ande-mail addresses which I initiated originally.
Thank you
Thank you
0
Comments
The phone number is ... 1-202-636-1200 (I think that's the "Postmaster General's Office)
When I called I had to leave a message, and the message said they'd call me back in 48 hours
Not the best of service ... but worth a try
Sorry to hear of your trouble. Sounds awful
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FWIW last time I tried shipping 5 sets of 25th Anniv. Sets registered to PCGS and the clerk told me to not ship registered unless it was an irreplaceable heirloom or document.
<< <i>Wow...service just keeps getting worse
FWIW last time I tried shipping 5 sets of 25th Anniv. Sets registered to PCGS and the clerk told me to not ship registered unless it was an irreplaceable heirloom or document. >>
Wow, and without sending it registered, you can't even make a proper insurance claim? I wonder if they wanted to get their hands on your sets?
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<< <i>regular insured ("Steal me" sticker) and registered insured ("Steal me and go to jail" sticker) >>
I wonder how many missing coins have had the "Steal me" sticker?
They obviously are not pocket change. They are not bullion (no silver/gold/platinum). So, what
do they say they are? IF not collectables what do they think they could be?
I understand that bullion is limited to $15 unless registered (and that might be argued that it's
not even covered then). But, these buffs are not bullion.....
Dam,
bob
You paid the insurance fee for $1000.....they lost them.....they owe you $1000!!!!!!!!!!!
" Limit on money (cash) insurable through the mail
Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:
Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00 "
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Go in to the post office and ask for the supervisor and explain. If not satisfactory, ask for their manager. Have a pad of paper and write down all dates/times/names of people you talk to, and what they are saying. Do this right in front of them and do it in a non-aggressive manner so they can't say you were being angry and needing to be cutoff from further contact.
Escalate all the way up to the postmaster general.
They are incorrect in that the coins were/are collectible and sounds like the clerk doesn't know their own (ridiculously huge ) manual. It has been posted on the forums before, for the pertinent parts. In short, they are collectible (now, sending a 1998 well used quarter and insuring it for $500 and claiming it is that collectible wouldn't fly most likely
The key is to remain calm even when you want to erupt, and to keep escalating AND to have a record of everyone talked to, what was said, and when.
People don't like being held responsible.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I would like to know what they call 30¢ worth of Buffalo Nickels that were insured for $1,500.
They obviously are not pocket change. They are not bullion (no silver/gold/platinum). So, what
do they say they are? IF not collectables what do they think they could be?
I understand that bullion is limited to $15 unless registered (and that might be argued that it's
not even covered then). But, these buffs are not bullion.....
Dam,
bob
quote the scriptures of the
domestic mail manual
talk to the post master
ask them how to handle an escalation with a PO and post master.
<< <i>I'd file in small claims court before I put up with this nonsense. >>
I looked into this when i had my insurance claim you can't sue the post office they are immune as a governmental agency it will be dismissed and you will be assessed there legal cost.
The reasons for using Registered Mail over any other combination of USPS delivery with insurance has been posted on multiple occassions, usually after someone has suffered a loss by sending some other way. Despite ALL the very valid reasons for using Registered Mail when sending something you can't afford to lose, I am suprised by many forum members who seem to have some sort of Registered Mail phobia or reluctance to use it. Maybe because of all the regulations (paper vs. packaging tape, no bubble mailer packages, etc.)but in my case, if its worth more than a grand and its going through the mail...its going Registered, or not at all.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
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<< <i>I'd file in small claims court before I put up with this nonsense. >>
I looked into this when i had my insurance claim you can't sue the post office they are immune as a governmental agency it will be dismissed and you will be assessed there legal cost. >>
You know with certainty that the Post Office has sovereign immunity in all districts and is not subject to the Federal Tort Claims Act? I'm not going to read the act or search for an appellate case; however, unless you have done the same research, you shouldn't make such a statement.
go in with loks of printouts of the same items in the same grade from various sources with pictures and prices.
this will set value.
the value above face will show they are collectible, not coins (face value) nor bullion (metal value)
of course we are being logical. we can't think for them, too.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I'd file in small claims court before I put up with this nonsense. >>
I looked into this when i had my insurance claim you can't sue the post office they are immune as a governmental agency it will be dismissed and you will be assessed there legal cost. >>
You know with certainty that the Post Office has sovereign immunity in all districts and is not subject to the Federal Tort Claims Act? I'm not going to read the act or search for an appellate case; however, unless you have done the same research, you shouldn't make such a statement. >>
Not that Wikipedia should be taken as a definitive answer, but here's what they have to say:
The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation (e.g., Amtrak) because it operates much like a business, but as noted above, it is legally defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States", (39 U.S.C. § 201
) as it is controlled by Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General. As a quasi-governmental agency, it has many special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail. Indeed, in 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a unanimous decision that the USPS was not a government-owned corporation, and therefore could not be sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act.[45]
http://www.shieldnickels.net
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<< <i>
<< <i>I'd file in small claims court before I put up with this nonsense. >>
I looked into this when i had my insurance claim you can't sue the post office they are immune as a governmental agency it will be dismissed and you will be assessed there legal cost. >>
You know with certainty that the Post Office has sovereign immunity in all districts and is not subject to the Federal Tort Claims Act? I'm not going to read the act or search for an appellate case; however, unless you have done the same research, you shouldn't make such a statement. >>
I did look it up as i was going to sue them untill my lawyer said it wasn't possable
what did you use to justify value?
Get the guys name/numbers and file a claim with the US postal inspection service - show printouts of 6 similar recently sold items from any auction - this is not lost cash but collectibles. (they are trying to pull insurance fraud on you).
If they argue that they are normal money then tell them to pay you the $15 in the exact same type and grade of coins that you sent (since they're saying they are "normal" money/coins) and you'll be satisfied.
Anyway, don't be argumentative just focus on the fact that they are collectibles not money.
Good luck!
The value was based on PCGS less20%, NGC less 20%. Heritage auction archieves. Photos of Heritage sales. Photos of all the coins. Grading costs. Market value etc, etc. Two of them were Pop 5 MS 67 FS 502 1938 D/D. None graded higher. Two other coins were MS66 FS502 only five graded higher . Two of the five were mine. The packet which was sent to the Postal Service was at least three-quarters of an inch thick. Also very nice original toned Buffs. Will wait till Monday but I already left a lengthy message on the number suggested by a member. Every thing in writing states that these are collectables. The $15 value was the POs value of what they stated were coins. That is what the adjuster said.
<< <i>what did you use to justify value?
Get the guys name/numbers and file a claim with the US postal inspection service - show printouts of 6 similar recently sold items from any auction - this is not lost cash but collectibles. (they are trying to pull insurance fraud on you). >>
this.
don't just show them the sales papers and let that be the proof. show them values from many sources.
" Limit on money (cash) insurable through the mail
Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:
Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00 "
Click for USPS Publication
Page 8 states:
"The fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined
by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collector’s newsletter
and trade paper."
Hopefully DaggoB has initiated the appeal process.
<< <i>Updated with the current Publication #122 which states on page 8 coins are insurable.
Click for USPS Publication
Page 8 states:
"The fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined
by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collector’s newsletter
and trade paper." >>
Looks like one needs to be extra careful when paying big premiums for holders or color.
<< <i>Updated with the current Publication #122 which states on page 8 coins are insurable.
Click for USPS Publication
Page 8 states:
"The fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined
by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collector’s newsletter
and trade paper." >>
Use this as the basis for your appeal. Quote the exact text from the USPS publication, and attach a copy.
Then attach copies of the sources you used for valuing the coins.
Good luck!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>This has always pi$$ed me off!
You paid the insurance fee for $1000.....they lost them.....they owe you $1000!!!!!!!!!!! >>
I had to eat a $170 claim, once, which had been insured. Because I couldn't "prove" the value of the coins. They were British coins. I brought in photocopies of the appropriate sections of the Krause catalog, etc. Of course I could have just been making all that up. They had no way to know. STILL, if I PAID for $170 worth of insurance, my opinion is that I damn well should have gotten my $170 back!
A little bit of red tape is to be expected, but to go through the red tape and then be denied really hacked me off. It poisoned me on the USPS for at least a decade. I was very poor at the time- VERY poor- as in, pretty much bankrupt- and I had sold some family antiques to get that 170 bucks and swing that deal. Nobody gave the proverbial rat's arse.
Box of 20
Registered is a pain, and slower, but we have found for Higher Value packages we always use Registered Mail.
For lesser value, we go with the odds, and make the customers whole.... then wait on the insurance nonsense.
http://www.coinshop.com