<< <i>"It's a leap to equate producing a valid form of ID for using a PO Box with socialism, IMO.."
I equate socialism with the unintended(?) effects of the Patriot Act (a pronounced reduction of personal liberty). What part of the Patriot Act do you equate with an increase of personal liberty? >>
Maybe I'm just more easygoing--I just don't consider asking for a form of valid ID to rent a PO box a really big deal or an intrusion on my personal liberties...I suppose in that regard I agree with the "Really A Thread for This" group...but carry on! >>
I have no government-issued ID cards. Once I walked into a coin dealer to sell a brick of gold and was refused.
It is like you; giving us your nod of approval to "carry on" like you own the forum... I just don't get it. What happens to some of the people around here? I figure if it is contageous though, I would have caught it by now.
If you want to commit mail fraud, do what everyone else does, get a box at the UPS store (the old MailBoxes, Etc.). This is a joke if it offends anyone.
The PO is supposed to collect ID for many services, that's why Western Union sells so many money orders and is such a favorite of Craigslist scamsters.
<< <i>"It's a leap to equate producing a valid form of ID for using a PO Box with socialism, IMO.."
I equate socialism with the unintended(?) effects of the Patriot Act (a pronounced reduction of personal liberty). What part of the Patriot Act do you equate with an increase of personal liberty? >>
Maybe I'm just more easygoing--I just don't consider asking for a form of valid ID to rent a PO box a really big deal or an intrusion on my personal liberties...I suppose in that regard I agree with the "Really A Thread for This" group...but carry on! >>
I have no government-issued ID cards. Once I walked into a coin dealer to sell a brick of gold and was refused.
It is like you; giving us your nod of approval to "carry on" like you own the forum... I just don't get it. What happens to some of the people around here? I figure if it is contageous though, I would have caught it by now. >>
It's not so much of what you state as much as it is the amount of effort and "backup" legal knowledge required to accomplish your tasks when simply showing an ID or IDs is so much easier.
Did that make any sense at all?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>It's not so much of what you state as much as it is the amount of effort and "backup" legal knowledge required to accomplish your tasks when simply showing an ID or IDs is so much easier.
Did that make any sense at all? >>
Having the ID identifies you a government entity. I do not need one myself, except for selling gold at that particular coin shop anyway.
For people who do I suggest that they sign the card First Middle only. Then when they decide it is appropriate to use it they say, Officer, I am not using that card for identification purposes. I am only showing it to you for competency purposes so that you know I have passed the tests and have a valid insurance policy in place.
The officer will return the card within ten minutes waving you on to "Have a nice day!"
Answer this: What does having a driver license have to do with operating a Post Office Box?
I get all my materials through professional process server or courier. It is expensive but not being a government entity means that money comes easy.
I have an ID and Passport. They are generated in coherence with UN Charter Law and would work fine. I would simply R4C the Notice like I said above, even in the primary presentment - while opening up the box. I would present lawful money compelling the USPS clerk to open the box on fiduciary duty alone. The USPS is a private contractor for the Post Office and in competition with UPS, Fedex etc. It would be bad business to turn away a paying patron (not customer) and the shareholders might be very irate, being such an economy these days.
P.S. I guess that is easier to wrap your mind around. I would never be a postal customer; only a postal patron.
Regulations relating to PO Box. I believe the regs for a Commercial Mail Receiving Agency are similar (see link above). 4.3.2 Verification [8-14-08] An application for Post Office box service may not be approved until the applicant's identity and current permanent physical address where he or she resides or conducts business is verified. Customers who apply online for a Post Office box do not receive their box number and keys (or combination number) until verification is complete and the application is approved. Verification criteria are as follows:
a. At the time of application, applicants must present two items of valid identification; one item must contain a photograph of the applicant. Social Security cards or credit cards and birth certificates are unacceptable as identification. The following are acceptable identification:
1. Valid driver's license or state non-driver's identification card.
2. Armed forces, government, university, or recognized corporate identification card.
3. Passport, alien registration card, or certificate of naturalization.
4. Current lease, mortgage, or deed of trust.
5. Voter or vehicle registration card.
6. Home or vehicle insurance policy.
b. The identification presented must be current. It must contain sufficient information to confirm that the applicant is who he or she claims to be and must be traceable to the bearer.
>>
Has anybody verified that these id's work? If a vehicle registration card works along with a drivers license, what's the big deal? Your car is most likely in the parking lot, if the clerk cared enough about what kind of car you drive they could just look out the window.
1. They've probably had a spike in non-PO box owners somehow gaining access to other people's PO boxes.
Or
2. Someone in Homeland Security said, "Hey, did you know that you can set up a PO box anonymously and mail __, __ & __ to it? We have to stiop that."
And for those who compare this to voting...well, the last time I checked, voting was actually a Constitutionally (as in federal, not individual state) protected right and not a priviledge, like driving....or owning a PO box. And anyhow, if taken to the extremes that some new laws imply, then everybody beyond driving age, as well as all residents of nursing homes and many retirement communities would be disenfranchised...and would that be right?
<< <i>I have held my P.O. Box since 1986. Got a notice in it today along with the bill for the next rent period demanding that I show them two forms of I.D.
Question One: Haven't these jamokes ever heard of the Grandfather Clause?
I would be annoyed too but it is the world we live in today. Too many lawless sobs out there doing rotten stuff in secret. Some could even be grandfathers.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
And for those who compare this to voting...well, the last time I checked, voting was actually a Constitutionally (as in federal, not individual state) protected right and not a priviledge, like driving....or owning a PO box. And anyhow, if taken to the extremes that some new laws imply, then everybody beyond driving age, as well as all residents of nursing homes and many retirement communities would be disenfranchised...and would that be right? >>
So is owning a gun but there are hoops to jump through to get one. As some said earlier there are state issued non driving ids. I don't think you have to worry about granny getting her rights trampled upon with that.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
here in connecticut they are asking for id now if you go into a gun store and ask for ammo. off topic i know but just the same. if you buy over 1000 rounds now you get a call from the atf in your area. i know alot of us are just over 18 but just the same on the id's
<<So is owning a gun but there are hoops to jump through to get one. As some said earlier there are state issued non driving ids. I don't think you have to worry about that. >>
The situations are actually different in that owning a gun requires jumping through both federal and state regulations, with the Feds being the primary level of enforcement (background check) and the state being secondary (gun permit). However, in the case of voting ID, you would have infividual states actually infringing, rather than complementing, a higher-order federally granted/protected right.
<< <i><<So is owning a gun but there are hoops to jump through to get one. As some said earlier there are state issued non driving ids. I don't think you have to worry about that. >>
The situations are actually different in that owning a gun requires jumping through both federal and state regulations, with the Feds being the primary level of enforcement (background check) and the state being secondary (gun permit). However, in the case of voting ID, you would have infividual states actually infringing, rather than complementing, a higher-order federally granted/protected right. >>
Not following. If the state could "infringe" on a Constitutional right of gun ownership as you stated then how is that different than a simple ID request for voting. I don't even see that as an infringement if the id's are readily available with a minimum effort and no cost.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<<Not following. If the state could "infringe" on a Constitutional right of gun ownership as you stated then how is that different than a simple ID request for voting. I don't even see that as an infringement if the id's are readily available with a minimum effort and no cost. >>
I believe the Voting Rights Act of 1964-65 as well as the declared illegality of Jim Crow-type state level laws by multiple courts over many years, have addressed this issue. The stated intent of the state laws are irrelevant if the actual result of the law's imposition results in voting infringement.
<< <i><<Not following. If the state could "infringe" on a Constitutional right of gun ownership as you stated then how is that different than a simple ID request for voting. I don't even see that as an infringement if the id's are readily available with a minimum effort and no cost. >>
I believe the Voting Rights Act of 1964-65 as well as the declared illegality of Jim Crow-type state level laws by multiple courts over many years, have addressed this issue. The stated intent of the state laws are irrelevant if the actual result of the law's imposition results in voting infringement. >>
First you have to prove unreasonable infringement. Our laws often balance one persons rights with the rights of others. You have freedom of speech but you cannot yell "fire" in a theater or "highjack" in an airport for example. This might be interpreted by extremists as an infringement but not by most and not by the courts. So you balance the right to vote of one person against the right to have a uncorrupted election process by another. Both parties make a reasonable accommodation to give each other their rights. That is how I see it.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>If you want to commit mail fraud, do what everyone else does, get a box at the UPS store (the old MailBoxes, Etc.). This is a joke if it offends anyone.
The PO is supposed to collect ID for many services, that's why Western Union sells so many money orders and is such a favorite of Craigslist scamsters. >>
I have a box at a Private Mail facility. They also require 2 forms of ID. --Jerry
I kind of glanced at the thread but am I missing something? Not to sound ignorant but asking in a serious manner what's the big deal about showing them a form of ID?
Edit: BTW....you've held your PO Box a year longer than I've been alive
<< <i>I kind of glanced at the thread but am I missing something? Not to sound ignorant but asking in a serious manner what's the big deal about showing them a form of ID? >>
It's not a big deal and this thread is totally lame. I guess some forum members just enjoy whining.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Papers please is the motto of one of our political parties ....... >>
Agree. You couldn't get into the Democratic Convention last week without a photo identification. It's the world we live in now so get used to it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I have held my P.O. Box since 1986. Got a notice in it today along with the bill for the next rent period demanding that I show them two forms of I.D.
Acceptable identification includes: a. Valid driver's license b. State non-driver's license c. Armed forces or government ID etc. >>
My box was not even up for renewal. I received a notice to apply for a box, in my box. I thought, WTH? Went in and had it explained to me there were new rules and had to "reapply" and provide proof of who I was.
Miffed at the inconvenience, I filled out the paper work, complied and moved on.
Comments
<< <i>"OTOH you could just skip all that and show your ID.."
One small step for socialism, one GIANT leap for... >>
Busting out your driver's license vs having numbers forcibly tattooed on your wrist.
Is this one of those days you don't get the distinction?
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>"It's a leap to equate producing a valid form of ID for using a PO Box with socialism, IMO.."
I equate socialism with the unintended(?) effects of the Patriot Act (a pronounced reduction of personal liberty). What part of the Patriot Act do you equate with an increase of personal liberty? >>
Maybe I'm just more easygoing--I just don't consider asking for a form of valid ID to rent a PO box a really big deal or an intrusion on my personal liberties...I suppose in that regard I agree with the "Really A Thread for This" group...but carry on!
I have no government-issued ID cards. Once I walked into a coin dealer to sell a brick of gold and was refused.
It is like you; giving us your nod of approval to "carry on" like you own the forum... I just don't get it. What happens to some of the people around here? I figure if it is contageous though, I would have caught it by now.
The PO is supposed to collect ID for many services, that's why Western Union sells so many money orders and is such a favorite of Craigslist scamsters.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"It's a leap to equate producing a valid form of ID for using a PO Box with socialism, IMO.."
I equate socialism with the unintended(?) effects of the Patriot Act (a pronounced reduction of personal liberty). What part of the Patriot Act do you equate with an increase of personal liberty? >>
Maybe I'm just more easygoing--I just don't consider asking for a form of valid ID to rent a PO box a really big deal or an intrusion on my personal liberties...I suppose in that regard I agree with the "Really A Thread for This" group...but carry on!
I have no government-issued ID cards. Once I walked into a coin dealer to sell a brick of gold and was refused.
It is like you; giving us your nod of approval to "carry on" like you own the forum... I just don't get it. What happens to some of the people around here? I figure if it is contageous though, I would have caught it by now. >>
It's not so much of what you state as much as it is the amount of effort and "backup" legal knowledge required to accomplish your tasks when simply showing an ID or IDs is so much easier.
Did that make any sense at all?
The name is LEE!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>It's not so much of what you state as much as it is the amount of effort and "backup" legal knowledge required to accomplish your tasks when simply showing an ID or IDs is so much easier.
Did that make any sense at all?
Having the ID identifies you a government entity. I do not need one myself, except for selling gold at that particular coin shop anyway.
For people who do I suggest that they sign the card First Middle only. Then when they decide it is appropriate to use it they say, Officer, I am not using that card for identification purposes. I am only showing it to you for competency purposes so that you know I have passed the tests and have a valid insurance policy in place.
The officer will return the card within ten minutes waving you on to "Have a nice day!"
Answer this: What does having a driver license have to do with operating a Post Office Box?
You can show any ID (even a passport). The DL is usually what people carry and use for convenience.
peacockcoins
I have an ID and Passport. They are generated in coherence with UN Charter Law and would work fine. I would simply R4C the Notice like I said above, even in the primary presentment - while opening up the box. I would present lawful money compelling the USPS clerk to open the box on fiduciary duty alone. The USPS is a private contractor for the Post Office and in competition with UPS, Fedex etc. It would be bad business to turn away a paying patron (not customer) and the shareholders might be very irate, being such an economy these days.
P.S. I guess that is easier to wrap your mind around. I would never be a postal customer; only a postal patron.
<< <i>http://pe.usps.com/archive/html/dmmarchive20090511/508.htm#wp1052479
Regulations relating to PO Box. I believe the regs for a Commercial Mail Receiving Agency are similar (see link above).
4.3.2 Verification
[8-14-08] An application for Post Office box service may not be approved until the applicant's identity and current permanent physical address where he or she resides or conducts business is verified. Customers who apply online for a Post Office box do not receive their box number and keys (or combination number) until verification is complete and the application is approved. Verification criteria are as follows:
a. At the time of application, applicants must present two items of valid identification; one item must contain a photograph of the applicant. Social Security cards or credit cards and birth certificates are unacceptable as identification. The following are acceptable identification:
1. Valid driver's license or state non-driver's identification card.
2. Armed forces, government, university, or recognized corporate identification card.
3. Passport, alien registration card, or certificate of naturalization.
4. Current lease, mortgage, or deed of trust.
5. Voter or vehicle registration card.
6. Home or vehicle insurance policy.
b. The identification presented must be current. It must contain sufficient information to confirm that the applicant is who he or she claims to be and must be traceable to the bearer.
>>
Has anybody verified that these id's work? If a vehicle registration card works along with a drivers license, what's the big deal? Your car is most likely in the parking lot, if the clerk cared enough about what kind of car you drive they could just look out the window.
Or
2. Someone in Homeland Security said, "Hey, did you know that you can set up a PO box anonymously and mail __, __ & __ to it? We have to stiop that."
And for those who compare this to voting...well, the last time I checked, voting was actually a Constitutionally (as in federal, not individual state) protected right and not a priviledge, like driving....or owning a PO box. And anyhow, if taken to the extremes that some new laws imply, then everybody beyond driving age, as well as all residents of nursing homes and many retirement communities would be disenfranchised...and would that be right?
<< <i>I have held my P.O. Box since 1986. Got a notice in it today along with the bill for the next rent period demanding that I show them two forms of I.D.
Question One: Haven't these jamokes ever heard of the Grandfather Clause?
I would be annoyed too but it is the world we live in today. Too many lawless sobs out there doing rotten stuff in secret. Some could even be grandfathers.
So is owning a gun but there are hoops to jump through to get one. As some said earlier there are state issued non driving ids. I don't think you have to worry about granny getting her rights trampled upon with that.
The situations are actually different in that owning a gun requires jumping through both federal and state regulations, with the Feds being the primary level of enforcement (background check) and the state being secondary (gun permit). However, in the case of voting ID, you would have infividual states actually infringing, rather than complementing, a higher-order federally granted/protected right.
<< <i><<So is owning a gun but there are hoops to jump through to get one. As some said earlier there are state issued non driving ids. I don't think you have to worry about that. >>
The situations are actually different in that owning a gun requires jumping through both federal and state regulations, with the Feds being the primary level of enforcement (background check) and the state being secondary (gun permit). However, in the case of voting ID, you would have infividual states actually infringing, rather than complementing, a higher-order federally granted/protected right. >>
Not following. If the state could "infringe" on a Constitutional right of gun ownership as you stated then how is that different than a simple ID request for voting. I don't even see that as an infringement if the id's are readily available with a minimum effort and no cost.
I believe the Voting Rights Act of 1964-65 as well as the declared illegality of Jim Crow-type state level laws by multiple courts over many years, have addressed this issue. The stated intent of the state laws are irrelevant if the actual result of the law's imposition results in voting infringement.
<< <i><<Not following. If the state could "infringe" on a Constitutional right of gun ownership as you stated then how is that different than a simple ID request for voting. I don't even see that as an infringement if the id's are readily available with a minimum effort and no cost. >>
I believe the Voting Rights Act of 1964-65 as well as the declared illegality of Jim Crow-type state level laws by multiple courts over many years, have addressed this issue. The stated intent of the state laws are irrelevant if the actual result of the law's imposition results in voting infringement. >>
First you have to prove unreasonable infringement. Our laws often balance one persons rights with the rights of others. You have freedom of speech but you cannot yell "fire" in a theater or "highjack" in an airport for example. This might be interpreted by extremists as an infringement but not by most and not by the courts. So you balance the right to vote of one person against the right to have a uncorrupted election process by another. Both parties make a reasonable accommodation to give each other their rights. That is how I see it.
<< <i>If you want to commit mail fraud, do what everyone else does, get a box at the UPS store (the old MailBoxes, Etc.). This is a joke if it offends anyone.
The PO is supposed to collect ID for many services, that's why Western Union sells so many money orders and is such a favorite of Craigslist scamsters. >>
I have a box at a Private Mail facility. They also require 2 forms of ID. --Jerry
Edit: BTW....you've held your PO Box a year longer than I've been alive
<< <i>I kind of glanced at the thread but am I missing something? Not to sound ignorant but asking in a serious manner what's the big deal about showing them a form of ID? >>
It's not a big deal and this thread is totally lame. I guess some forum members just enjoy whining.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Papers please is the motto of one of our political parties ....... >>
Agree. You couldn't get into the Democratic Convention last week without a photo identification. It's the world we live in now so get used to it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Papers please is the motto of one of our political parties ....... >>
Agree. You couldn't get into the Democratic Convention last week without a photo identification. It's the world we live in now so get used to it. >>
Lol, funny guy .....
<< <i>I have held my P.O. Box since 1986. Got a notice in it today along with the bill for the next rent period demanding that I show them two forms of I.D.
Acceptable identification includes:
a. Valid driver's license
b. State non-driver's license
c. Armed forces or government ID
etc.
>>
My box was not even up for renewal. I received a notice to apply for a box, in my box. I thought, WTH? Went in and had it explained to me there were new rules and had to "reapply" and provide proof of who I was.
Miffed at the inconvenience, I filled out the paper work, complied and moved on.