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2012-s Proof Silver Eagle 75th San Francisco Grades?
Akbeez
Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
Where is everyone on these? The forums are rather silent so far. I just got results back on my second set of submissions to PCGS and of 19 coins submitted/cherried, I got ZERO 70's. All 69s & 1 68. I heard comments about 20-30% 70's... Is this BS or do I just have bad karma?
All these were day one purchases, 1st Strikes.
2nd question(s): are any more 75th sets being shipped now? What was the last shipping date? Wondering if first strikes will truly be limited?
All these were day one purchases, 1st Strikes.
2nd question(s): are any more 75th sets being shipped now? What was the last shipping date? Wondering if first strikes will truly be limited?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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Comments
<< <i>Simply a thougth..... Earlier 2012 S PF coins were typically prescreened before being submitted by most of the large modern coin dealers, thus there was a higher % of PF 70's. Comments.... >>
August 25 was the cutoff date, and the dealers and the collectors BOTH had the option of prescreening these. Now its true the dealer probally submitted more giving him better odds at the 70's but just like the 25th anniversary sets when we were able to keep track of the pops between the two(Bulk submission vs Collectors) there was a BIG difference. Would love to hear from John or another dealer and what there results were. I feel for you Akbeez I think we have all been there one time or another and it does make you wonder.....................Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
I fugured it's cheaper to buy just one PR70 and if I wanted PR69th I could buy them below costs+fees in the secondary market
Sure wish I got in on those early presales by Mcm, st, etc. I have several single 75th's still sealed fs eligible. Was thinking about submitting, but may just sell them.
It will be interesting to see what the pops are for fs -- it's possible the fs69's may be worth a premium?
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
<< <i>As of the end of this week, PCGS's % of PF 70 grade is 34% for both 2012 S PF/RP ASEs. Most are FS designation which FS submissions should slow down greatly in the next few weeks. Question... will the Coin/Currency labelled 2012S Pf's be shown as a separate item in the future PCGS Pops? Comments...... >>
Yes and I do not feel so good about sending my 1 set in blind, with the results showing not that many 70's in sets that were LOOKED at, Oh well 62 bucks including First strike and I doubt there will be many as the cutoff date is Sept 6th. But they should have there own POPs........Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>As of the end of this week, PCGS's % of PF 70 grade is 34% for both 2012 S PF/RP ASEs. Most are FS designation which FS submissions should slow down greatly in the next few weeks. Question... will the Coin/Currency labelled 2012S Pf's be shown as a separate item in the future PCGS Pops? Comments...... >>
Ugg. 34% -- oh well. The FS 69's are a bargain now @ $199 from the big dealers. Grading alone was $120/set w/shipping, ~$270 cost for the little guy. I wonder if they will dry up/appreciate soon to the break-even point.
Agreed -- the CC sets should have their own pops, don't special set labels usually?
At the time, the Modern turn around time was listed as 8 days.
Tuesday will the the 14th business day !!!
I guess double what PCGS says the turn around time is.
I probably got bumped for the big dealers, PCGS doesn't want to deal with us little people.
<< <i>I guess double what PCGS says the turn around time is.
I probably got bumped for the big dealers, PCGS doesn't want to deal with us little people. >>
I seriously doubt any "big dealers" are submitting through regular services, they do bulk and it's apparently a completely different department and group of graders so it should have no effect on the "little people"
<< <i>My first 75th Set PCGS orders show "received" on 8/13--with 7-day turnaround...still waiting... I had a 30 set order that I cherry picked and sent the best 10 sets to PCGS and the remainder ATS. I received my ATS sets last weekend and had 16-70's, 22-69's & 2-68's. When I get the PCGS grades, I let everyone know what they thought of my cherry-pickin skills. >>
UPDATE: I got grades for my first 5 sets--9-69's and 1-68. And these were cherry picked from the original 30 sets! Either I'm getting pretty bad at grading or PCGS is getting much tougher.
<< <i>
<< <i>My first 75th Set PCGS orders show "received" on 8/13--with 7-day turnaround...still waiting... I had a 30 set order that I cherry picked and sent the best 10 sets to PCGS and the remainder ATS. I received my ATS sets last weekend and had 16-70's, 22-69's & 2-68's. When I get the PCGS grades, I let everyone know what they thought of my cherry-pickin skills. >>
UPDATE: I got grades for my first 5 sets--9-69's and 1-68. And these were cherry picked from the original 30 sets! Either I'm getting pretty bad at grading or PCGS is getting much tougher. >>
PCGS is not getting tougher, your just not a big enough dealer to warrant getting any 70's. PCGS knows they can only give out so many, so they save them for the big dealers.
<< <i>a completely different department and group of graders >>
. I find that surprising, and wonder how much truth is in that rumor.
Financially speaking, from a profitability standpoint, I don't think it would make sense for PCGS to employ a staff of graders who only grade big-dealer submissions. And regarding the statement that they "save 70s for big dealers because they can only approve a certain number each year" seems even more preposterous. That type of behavior would undermine the credibility of the entire grading process. I doubt PCGS or any other TPG would take such a risk.
What's more likely is that because big dealers submit such high volume, statistically, they will get more 70s than clients who submit less. For example, if you submit 100 coins you might receive one 70. If you submitted 10,000 coins, you might've received a hundred 70s.
Amat Colligendo Focum
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<< <i>I knew that big dealers got discount pricing, I was not aware they had
<< <i>a completely different department and group of graders >>
. I find that surprising, and wonder how much truth is in that rumor.
Financially speaking, from a profitability standpoint, I don't think it would make sense for PCGS to employ a staff of graders who only grade big-dealer submissions. And regarding the statement that they "save 70s for big dealers because they can only approve a certain number each year" seems even more preposterous. That type of behavior would undermine the credibility of the entire grading process. I doubt PCGS or any other TPG would take such a risk.
What's more likely is that because big dealers submit such high volume, statistically, they will get more 70s than clients who submit less. For example, if you submit 100 coins you might receive one 70. If you submitted 10,000 coins, you might've received a hundred 70s. >>
Sorry to tell you its NOT a rumor. It has been known about the two seperate grading rooms for awhile now, plus the Pennylady on one of her visits took Pictures. I will agree that if the dealer submits 100 sets compared to the 10 you sent in, they will have better odds at getting a 70. They also get to put down a MINIMUM GRADE, so they send in a 100 sets with a 69 as there minimum, everything under the 69 gets returned no holder,(NO Charge) which also means it doesn't show on the pops like the 68 you or I got. Plus than the dealers can take the rejects(below 69) and just sell those in the Original Goverment holders and the buyers don't have a clue those coins were already graded. This is why I and others who felt the sting on the 25th sets decided to sit this one out. Good luck all...........Enjoy Side note When the 2010 5 ounce coins were released WE PROVED that some AP dealers had sent in 100's of those and kept the best for themselves, the Mint should NOT allow these AP"S to Grade coins at all.How fair is it when they pay less than you and I and there able to keep the best ones to sell and again dump the rejects on the unknowing public............BOX A
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>They also get to put down a MINIMUM GRADE, so they send in a 100 sets with a 69 as there minimum, everything under the 69 gets returned no holder,(NO Charge) which also means it doesn't show on the pops like the 68 you or I got. Plus than the dealers can take the rejects(below 69) and just sell those in the Original Goverment >>
I agree totally but staying with that thought wouldn't that increase the 70 POP %'s since a large quantity of non-70's never made it in....and ALL of the 70's (no matter how few) did make it into the numbers.
I think it might be a valid business decision (at least with the ASE's) to limit the % of 70's because of the grade guarantee and buy back potential. It doesn't help the bottom line to have that hanging over your head forever.....
<< <i>
<< <i>I knew that big dealers got discount pricing, I was not aware they had
<< <i>a completely different department and group of graders >>
. I find that surprising, and wonder how much truth is in that rumor.
Financially speaking, from a profitability standpoint, I don't think it would make sense for PCGS to employ a staff of graders who only grade big-dealer submissions. And regarding the statement that they "save 70s for big dealers because they can only approve a certain number each year" seems even more preposterous. That type of behavior would undermine the credibility of the entire grading process. I doubt PCGS or any other TPG would take such a risk.
What's more likely is that because big dealers submit such high volume, statistically, they will get more 70s than clients who submit less. For example, if you submit 100 coins you might receive one 70. If you submitted 10,000 coins, you might've received a hundred 70s. >>
Sorry to tell you its NOT a rumor. It has been known about the two seperate grading rooms for awhile now, plus the Pennylady on one of her visits took Pictures. I will agree that if the dealer submits 100 sets compared to the 10 you sent in, they will have better odds at getting a 70. They also get to put down a MINIMUM GRADE, so they send in a 100 sets with a 69 as there minimum, everything under the 69 gets returned no holder,(NO Charge) which also means it doesn't show on the pops like the 68 you or I got. Plus than the dealers can take the rejects(below 69) and just sell those in the Original Goverment holders and the buyers don't have a clue those coins were already graded. This is why I and others who felt the sting on the 25th sets decided to sit this one out. Good luck all...........Enjoy Side note When the 2010 5 ounce coins were released WE PROVED that some AP dealers had sent in 100's of those and kept the best for themselves, the Mint should NOT allow these AP"S to Grade coins at all.How fair is it when they pay less than you and I and there able to keep the best ones to sell and again dump the rejects on the unknowing public............BOX A >>
Don't forget PCGS waived the 30 day First Strike Rule on the 5 oz coins to allow all the big dealers to be able to get First Strike labels.
The game is totally rigged, anyone who thinks it is not is very naive.
<< <i>Am I understanding the bulk submissions are graded by a different group of graders than non-bulk? Is this really true? >>
based on what others said, it appears so.
Not to get off track, but another issue i have with the grading process, is the grader knows how big an order is. So if you have 1, 10, 100 or 1000 coins, the grader knows that. And no offense to the graders, but it would just be human nature to give a few 70's to someone who spent so much money to have 100 coins graded.
I think each coin should come across the graders table as a single coin and graded as a single coin, not as 1 of 100 coins.
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I'd sure like to hear more about how these Bulk vs LIttle Guy categories are managed by our forum host.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Quite frankly, I sensed a big change with the 2011 25th Anniversary sets. The 70 sets in FS from dealers were unbelievably plentiful, while collectors were complaining about the low % of 70's on thier submissions. I dont buy the "bulk" or "prescreening" argument, many collectors prescreen and send multiple boxes in for grading as well.
The grading across the street is not that bad, and at least for the 25th anniversary sets, you were much better off in "increased value" sending your 25th anniversary sets to them......all costs considered.
However, I have noticed this time around...the 75th SF set...the grade thru rate of 70's is bad at both services, Im thinking the overall quality control at the SF mint is suffering.
I think the community is in dire need of a 69+ grade. The market reaction to a 69 for a modern is that it is garbage, run of the mill, expected. All coins cant make it to a "70". We need something else...something to distinguish that real PQ 69.......and I dont mean little stickers either.
Better quality means less returns and more mint profit?
I ask because I have 10 sets ordered on last day and debating should I cancel or not with the low quality heard here so far.
Thanks
<< <i>John what have your overall numbers been? Obviously your last submission was an outlier or it would make no business sense for MCM to submit the 75th sets. Not a conspiracy theory, an observation based on my experience(that admittedly maybe inaccurate due to relatively low numbers.) i have seen a few bulk graded 70s that I wouldn't have been surprised to see in a 68 holder- no dogs from the collectors side. Perhaps the collectors are unlucky but the numbers certainly seem to favor the bulk route. >>
I think the best was 30% or so..... I guess the point is it varies for all of us. IF, and that's a big IF, there is any difference in grading I think the different graders theory makes more sense than any other theory I've seen put forth.
Final note, and what I think is a very valuable tip for most on these boards, if you can afford the fees don't bother screening the coins yourself no matter how good you think your eye is. Send them all in and leave it to the pro's. I know some will say "but what if it's an OBVIOUS 68 or 69....." OK, don't send it. But if you have ANY doubt at all, send it. In my case, I don't even bother to do that the majority of the time because we simply don't have the time.
Have a great weekend,
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Thanks John M for your insights, always good to hear from you. I did exactly as you suggested.
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