<< <i>Sounds like a national tax. Probably no exemptions there. I confess I do not know all details though. >>
Well since my local sales tax rate is higher than my commission on coins I sell if there is no exemption why would I want to continue to sell coins on eBay.
Back to the OP's original question somewhat there may be a lot less sellers of coins if the rate is too high why bother when eBay/PayPal and tax make more on the sale than the seller does. >>
Looks like they are still working on the details. I guess in theory the tax would be paid by the purchaser and not reduce your commission but it may affect your volume. Don't forget the wonderful 28% income tax on long term collectible capital gains.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>well then, I will be adding Amazon to my list of bad sellers. >>
Agree. The CEO of Amazon is well know for supporting left wing causes so it doesn't surprise me that he is supporting this tax scheme. >>
Why do a small portion of people posting here believe the OPPOSITE of reality? Are some of these people posting on Opposite Day?
Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales.
<< <i>seems to me that the government and media talking heads have brainwashed nearly all of you. I am reading arguments on how to best implement a national tax, not reading arguments on why it is stupid to implement yet another tax. How about the government work on shrinking its "need" to suck up your money? How about governments at all levels getting smaller, spending less? How about arguments on why all of us deserve to keep more of our own money rather than piss is away on some government pork? >>
We here in Oregon are doing just fine without a sales tax. The folks on the Washington side of the Columbia River have it best both ways. Washington people can drive across the river and buy in Oregon without sales tax. Then they can go back home to Washington State and be happy about the fact that their state has no income tax.
I believe that any extra taxes will simply kill business. >>
In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy.
Today taxes are more important to some government officials and policy makers than economic activity, and the ironic thing is the poorer economy will cause tax receipts to decrease. Stupid politicians will raise taxes to make up the short fall and that will make the problem worse in a continuing spiral downward. Some people say this is "Keynesian economics" when clearly it isn't. The Keynesian model did not prescribe tax increases in the middle of a recession. It called for quite the opposite.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy. >>
Bill, why would people in states where there is no sales tax on coins avoid the internet?
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
My experience is that there are some in-state on-line sellers who refuse to recognize a state's exemption of sales taxes on coins. These sellers insist on collecting the sales tax anyway, probably because they are uneducated on the state's exemption. In addition, there are also on-line sellers who do try to comply with their state's tax laws and collect state sales taxes but are unaware that they are not authorized to collect state sales taxes for out-of-state sales. In such cases it is the out-of-state buyer's responsibility to report and pay the sales tax to his home state if the transaction is not exempted from his state's sales taxes. Since I live in a state that exempts sales taxes on coins, I avoid on-line sellers who refuse to honor the exemption.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Wouldn't it have to be a Federal tax?? Each state has it's own rights and tax codes. Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed. If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state?
<< <i>Wouldn't it have to be a Federal tax?? Each state has it's own rights and tax codes. Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed. If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state? >>
The issue is the collection of existing state sales taxes for internet sales from sellers/buyers who currently fail to report/pay the tax as required by existing tax laws. Until and if there is ever a federal sales tax in general, you will most likely never see a federal sales tax on coins. The problem is a states rights taxation issue but it is a problem that will most likely be resolved with a coordinated effort of all the affected states. Don't be surprised for national leaders to think it is their job to fix the problem, but I would hope the states would tell them to "butt out - states rights issue."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
States that do not have sales tax on coins and bullion don't have to worry about it. Purchasers online are not going to volunteer to pay, so if a vendor isn't charging it, he may owe some back taxes on revenues.
In-state sales tax online is mandated by the dept of revenue in each state. So far, I'm not responsible for collecting other state's tax revenues and hopefully will never have to be burdened with such. If it is a national internet sales tax, then it couldn't be a state sales tax. It would have to be one or the other. otherwise, it's double taxation.
My brain has absorbed enough. Today is a day of rest. Thank _ _ _ (fill in the blank, hint : it's not IRS)
Why do a small portion of people posting here believe the OPPOSITE of reality? Are some of these people posting on Opposite Day?
Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales.
What was described at the PNG meeting by former Congressman Jimmy Hayes (R-LA 1987-1997) was that Amazon changed 180 degrees from being against it to developing and offering their tax collection software to allow states to collect their sales tax from internet sales. I guess they figured that you can't fight city hall. Was he just putting the blame on Amazon as a scapegoat? I don't know for sure. It is what he told us.
<< <i>Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales. >>
Amazon lost the suit because they were guilty of not complying with a law that requires them to collect and forward sales taxes to the state of Texas. It appears they realized they could cut their losses by profiting from the sale of their software that helps other states stop the same criminal behavior that they themselves were guilty of. Look for more states to pursue collection of these taxes as other sources of revenue continue to dry up. The winner will be the states and their residents, while the losers will be on-line purchasers who have thus far enjoyed a "tax holiday" with their on-line purchases. While it will not be welcomed by on-line shoppers, paying these taxes has always been a requirement.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The "uniform" tax rate discussed is within each state, not nationally. For example, Texas has these rates:
State - 6 1/4% (.0625)
City - 1/4% (.0025) - 2% (.02), depending on local rate.
County - 1/2% (.005) - 1.5% (.015), depending on local rate.
Transit - 1/4 % (.0025) - 1% (.01), depending on local rate.
Special Purpose Districts - 1/8% (.00125) - 2% (.02), depending on local rate.
The only way an internet seller can know what rate to charge is to have an exact lookup by address of each buyer. But such a lookup does not exist, nor is there any mechanism for distributing the funds to all these counties, cities, and special tax districts (flood control, crime control, bridge and roads, sports stadium subsidies, etc) The only viable solution is some sort of unified rate, if not for the entire state, at least by zip code.
I don't like collecting sale tax on my eBay sales nor did I when I was manager of Causey's Rare Coins in Fort Worth for 10 years. But we also didn't like losing sales to mail order companies who didn't charge sales tax, nor knowing if the next customer who refused to pay sales tax and waved cash in your face was a state comptroller's undercover agent waiting for you to say "no tax if you pay cash" before throwing handcuffs on you.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>The only way an internet seller can know what rate to charge is to have an exact lookup by address of each buyer. But such a lookup does not exist, nor is there any mechanism for distributing the funds to all these counties, cities, and special tax districts (flood control, crime control, bridge and roads, sports stadium subsidies, etc) The only viable solution is some sort of unified rate, if not for the entire state, at least by zip code. >>
Excellent point. And this will be the argument used to try to have it done on the national level with one fixed rate. However, localities will not be screaming for their piece of the internet pie until they first see their home state succeed in getting the pie.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy. >>
Bill, why would people in states where there is no sales tax on coins avoid the internet? >>
Because this reads like it's a national sales tax that will be collected from every state even if it is on goods that are not taxed in that state.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The programs and computers exist to nail every tax deadbeat in the country but both the IRS and state revenue agents have been laying off collectors left and right. I had to contact my state representative to even get my tax sales and use permit issued to me, it is no big deal. Anyone who buys and sells for investment purposes can become a dealer for tax purposes, and once I work in all my deductions through my buddy at HR Block, I owe next to nothing. Oh, and btw, Mr IRS agent--you never got me for 1999 and before even though I had tens of thousands of $$$ going through my checking account, like Mitt I was not filing at that time but did pay $50K in back taxes for later years. And there was that 1852-O $20 Lib. that I upgraded from AU50 to 58 netting a cool $5K without the IRS ever calling me on that.
I just hope they can start enforcing the law universally and in an even-handed manner.
<< <i>Wouldn't it have to be a Federal tax?? Each state has it's own rights and tax codes. Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed. If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state? >>
Because when someone in state A buys a coin from someone in state B, it's interstate commerce, so Congress has the clear Constitutional authority to regulate the transaction (including taxation). That's not to say this is what they *should* do, but since it's interstate commerce they *could* do this whether the states liked it or not.
I think how the Amazon plan works is the seller has to link into a program that takes the zip code, the item purchased and the amount and returns the state tax that should be applied. Perhaps a copy goes to the state. The seller adds it to their invoice. You have to prove that you are exempt from paying (you are a registered business with a tax licence buying for resale). The buyer pays the added tax, the seller gets a monthly statement from each state they collected taxes from saying what they collected and what they believe the seller owes.
I think it is important to let your state Congressmen and US house members know that you oppose it.
I think for coins and bullion, the best approach is to get them exempted in your state so it won't matter anyway. If many other states have good exemptions in place the drift of business out of the state may cause them all to limit taxes on coins and bullion.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like a national tax. Probably no exemptions there. I confess I do not know all details though. >>
Well since my local sales tax rate is higher than my commission on coins I sell if there is no exemption why would I want to continue to sell coins on eBay.
Back to the OP's original question somewhat there may be a lot less sellers of coins if the rate is too high why bother when eBay/PayPal and tax make more on the sale than the seller does.
Looks like they are still working on the details. I guess in theory the tax would be paid by the purchaser and not reduce your commission but it may affect your volume. Don't forget the wonderful 28% income tax on long term collectible capital gains.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I bought some coins last week in the shop. Just in case anyone wants to talk about coins
how much was the sales tax?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
If laughter was taxed , I'd be in arrears.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
If laughter was taxed , I'd be in arrears. >>
Give 'em time. It is not fair to be happy when there are some that aren't.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>well then, I will be adding Amazon to my list of bad sellers. >>
Agree. The CEO of Amazon is well know for supporting left wing causes so it doesn't surprise me that he is supporting this tax scheme. >>
Why do a small portion of people posting here believe the OPPOSITE of reality? Are some of these people posting on Opposite Day?
Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform
was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales.
Link
<< <i>
<< <i>seems to me that the government and media talking heads have brainwashed nearly all of you. I am reading arguments on how to best implement a national tax, not reading arguments on why it is stupid to implement yet another tax. How about the government work on shrinking its "need" to suck up your money? How about governments at all levels getting smaller, spending less? How about arguments on why all of us deserve to keep more of our own money rather than piss is away on some government pork?
We here in Oregon are doing just fine without a sales tax. The folks on the Washington side of the Columbia River have it best both ways. Washington people can drive across the river and buy in Oregon without sales tax. Then they can go back home to Washington State and be happy about the fact that their state has no income tax.
I believe that any extra taxes will simply kill business. >>
In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy.
Today taxes are more important to some government officials and policy makers than economic activity, and the ironic thing is the poorer economy will cause tax receipts to decrease. Stupid politicians will raise taxes to make up the short fall and that will make the problem worse in a continuing spiral downward. Some people say this is "Keynesian economics" when clearly it isn't. The Keynesian model did not prescribe tax increases in the middle of a recession. It called for quite the opposite.
<< <i>In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy. >>
Bill, why would people in states where there is no sales tax on coins avoid the internet?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Each state has it's own rights and tax codes.
Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed.
If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state?
http://www.coinshop.com
<< <i>Wouldn't it have to be a Federal tax??
Each state has it's own rights and tax codes.
Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed.
If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state? >>
The issue is the collection of existing state sales taxes for internet sales from sellers/buyers who currently fail to report/pay the tax as required by existing tax laws. Until and if there is ever a federal sales tax in general, you will most likely never see a federal sales tax on coins. The problem is a states rights taxation issue but it is a problem that will most likely be resolved with a coordinated effort of all the affected states. Don't be surprised for national leaders to think it is their job to fix the problem, but I would hope the states would tell them to "butt out - states rights issue."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
In-state sales tax online is mandated by the dept of revenue in each state. So far, I'm not responsible for collecting other state's tax revenues and hopefully will never have to be burdened with such. If it is a national internet sales tax, then it couldn't be a state sales tax. It would have to be one or the other. otherwise, it's double taxation.
My brain has absorbed enough. Today is a day of rest. Thank _ _ _ (fill in the blank, hint : it's not IRS)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>but I would hope the states would tell them to "butt out - states rights issue." >>
States (and people, for that matter) have the rights the federal government says they do. That issue was settled 150 years ago.
Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform
was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales.
What was described at the PNG meeting by former Congressman Jimmy Hayes (R-LA 1987-1997) was that Amazon changed 180 degrees from being against it to developing and offering their tax collection software to allow states to collect their sales tax from internet sales. I guess they figured that you can't fight city hall. Was he just putting the blame on Amazon as a scapegoat? I don't know for sure. It is what he told us.
<< <i>Amazon was sued by the state of Texas for $249 million in back sales taxes by Governor Rick Perry. The Amazon offer of implementing a sales tax platform
was part of the settlement agreement where they would pay a portion of this amount and begin collecting full taxes 7-1-2012. Amazon has spent millions lobbying AGAINST the collection of sales taxes on their sales. >>
Amazon lost the suit because they were guilty of not complying with a law that requires them to collect and forward sales taxes to the state of Texas. It appears they realized they could cut their losses by profiting from the sale of their software that helps other states stop the same criminal behavior that they themselves were guilty of. Look for more states to pursue collection of these taxes as other sources of revenue continue to dry up. The winner will be the states and their residents, while the losers will be on-line purchasers who have thus far enjoyed a "tax holiday" with their on-line purchases. While it will not be welcomed by on-line shoppers, paying these taxes has always been a requirement.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
State - 6 1/4% (.0625)
City - 1/4% (.0025) - 2% (.02), depending on local rate.
County - 1/2% (.005) - 1.5% (.015), depending on local rate.
Transit - 1/4 % (.0025) - 1% (.01), depending on local rate.
Special Purpose Districts - 1/8% (.00125) - 2% (.02), depending on local rate.
The only way an internet seller can know what rate to charge is to have an exact lookup by address of each buyer. But such a lookup does not exist, nor is there any mechanism for distributing the funds to all these counties, cities, and special tax districts (flood control, crime control, bridge and roads, sports stadium subsidies, etc) The only viable solution is some sort of unified rate, if not for the entire state, at least by zip code.
I don't like collecting sale tax on my eBay sales nor did I when I was manager of Causey's Rare Coins in Fort Worth for 10 years. But we also didn't like losing sales
to mail order companies who didn't charge sales tax, nor knowing if the next customer who refused to pay sales tax and waved cash in your face was a state comptroller's
undercover agent waiting for you to say "no tax if you pay cash" before throwing handcuffs on you.
<< <i>The only way an internet seller can know what rate to charge is to have an exact lookup by address of each buyer. But such a lookup does not exist, nor is there any mechanism for distributing the funds to all these counties, cities, and special tax districts (flood control, crime control, bridge and roads, sports stadium subsidies, etc) The only viable solution is some sort of unified rate, if not for the entire state, at least by zip code. >>
Excellent point. And this will be the argument used to try to have it done on the national level with one fixed rate. However, localities will not be screaming for their piece of the internet pie until they first see their home state succeed in getting the pie.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>In states like Connecticut, Delaware, Florida and New Hampshire where there is no sales tax on coins, collectors will avoid the Internet. It should be a boon to coin shows within those states, but it will take a big chunk out of interstate eBay and auction sales. Overall it might lower coin prices a bit because the decreased demand. However it is handled, this is another anti-growth, anti-business program that will slow the economy. >>
Bill, why would people in states where there is no sales tax on coins avoid the internet? >>
Because this reads like it's a national sales tax that will be collected from every state even if it is on goods that are not taxed in that state.
I just hope they can start enforcing the law universally and in an even-handed manner.
<< <i>Wouldn't it have to be a Federal tax??
Each state has it's own rights and tax codes.
Me thinks that only sales within the same state would or could be taxed.
If your state, like ours Idaho, has no tax on coins, gold, and silver.
So how could they tax without 100% cooperation from each state? >>
Because when someone in state A buys a coin from someone in state B, it's interstate commerce, so Congress has the clear Constitutional authority to regulate the transaction (including taxation). That's not to say this is what they *should* do, but since it's interstate commerce they *could* do this whether the states liked it or not.
<< <i>Tax is not going to happen. Governments suck too much from us already and are bloated beyond reason. >>
Actually, sales tax for online purchases already occurs in many states, N.Y. being one of them.
Many eBay sellers, based in N.Y., charge sales tax for purchases of coins to N.Y. residents, and there are other states who do this as well.
I think it is important to let your state Congressmen and US house members know that you oppose it.
I think for coins and bullion, the best approach is to get them exempted in your state so it won't matter anyway. If many other states have good exemptions in place the drift of business out of the state may cause them all to limit taxes on coins and bullion.