1874 CC Trade Dollar, Crusty and a little worn

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 1:09AM

Any opinions of grade? worth submitting?

LanceNewmanOCC · July 23, 2012 1:12AM

.

.90?

.

commoncents05 · July 23, 2012 1:17AM

I'm not sure it's genuine.

-Paul

lasvegasteddy · July 23, 2012 1:19AM

are you sure it's real
i ask after looking at the dentils by the date?

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 1:20AM

I'm not sure it's genuine.

Any ideas why? I weighed it and it weighs right at 27.22 grams

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 1:21AM

Sorry,, but I don't think it's real.

bob

Mint mark position is not correct compared to those I've seen. Dentils from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock are
not coming out from the rim crisp and alone. Seems deformed. Last star on the far right is deformed.
R in TRUST is incorrect.....

bob

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 1:23AM

are you sure it's real i ask after looking at the dentils by the date?

No, not sure as I usually collect British coins, and its a coin I found in the UK. Are the counterfeiters getting the weight right now as well?

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 1:28AM

Yes, and some are even overweight.

bob

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 1:28AM

Sorry,, but I don't think it's real. bob Mint mark position is not correct compared to those I've seen. Dentils from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock are not coming out from the rim crisp and alone. Seems deformed. Last star on the far right is deformed. R in TRUST is incorrect..... bob

Thanks fro the feedback Bob. That's why I love this forum. I bought it from a seller I know, so I wont have a problem returning it. He'll be a little shocked. It just arrived, I weighed it and posted the pictures here straight away. At least its a learning curve and if others have learnt from this post it has been worth while.

The scary thing is it weighs exactly 27.22 grams

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 1:30AM

What is the diameter and thickness?

bob

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 1:35AM

I'm just leaving to pick my wife up so I'll need to get back to you on that one Bob.

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 1:39AM

If you don't have calipers compare it to a Morgan Dollar, they are the same diameter and
thickness. If you can.

bob

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 1:43AM

Here's one that weighed spot on:

And the source:

coindeuce · July 23, 2012 1:53AM

I seriously doubt that it is genuine. I've seen that method of coloration on many Chinese counterfeits, including an 1878-CC which I have in my collection as a teaching tool. The usual tip-off is the weakness of the dentils.

stealer · July 23, 2012 2:06AM

I grade it a genuine fake. Sorry!

An easy way to tell about the dentils is also if they are unevenly long. Real ones will always have dentils of the same length (thanks Bob

)

crypto79 · July 23, 2012 2:28AM

Good job forum, that is a fake but a really good one. It has a faked patina but yet shows UNC details and it is an unknown MM location as well. There are a couple of fine details too that I dont want to give away as these are getting better.

JamesM · July 23, 2012 2:31AM

<< <i>I'm not sure it's genuine.

-Paul >>

michiganboy · July 23, 2012 2:33AM

Whats on it? It does not look like real toning but more like some black stuff rubbed on. Throw it in some acetone and then give us another look at the denticles.Things going for it so far is correct weight, correct die marriage, Things not looking good denticles weakness (could be crud from looks of Teddy's close up), smooth fields, couple of weak/misformed stars on lower right side.

Edited to add after closer examination Mint mark does not check out. So I too am now convinced its a fake.

mkman123 · July 23, 2012 2:40AM

I won't even dare.touch a raw, only slabbed for me

MilkmanDan · July 23, 2012 3:22AM

Yikes, these are getting better. I had to look twice on this one. Especially scary if the weight is correct.

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 4:18AM

Sitting on top of a Morgan

View from above

Side view

Trade (top) Morgan (bottom)

Toning shots:

Size is bang on = 38.1 mm (1.5 in)

Weight is bang on:

Sitting besides a (cleaned, scrap/ in my drawer) Morgan

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 4:23AM

i ask after looking at the dentils by the date?

Close up of dentils after q-tip

stealer · July 23, 2012 4:24AM

<< <i>i ask after looking at the dentils by the date?

Close up of dentils after q-tip

>>

Hold it, if you're planning on returning this coin don't do anything to it!

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 4:27AM

I'm not going to touch it. It could probably do with a dip, but I'm going to leave it as is.

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 5:03AM

Send it in to PCGS. Let them make the determination.

bob

jesbroken · July 23, 2012 5:12AM

Dang, you guys are good. The only thing I see wrong is the mintmark. I would have been fooled for sure.
Jim

johnny9434 · July 23, 2012 5:21AM

thats why i like coming to these boards. you never stop learning and even pick up on some stuff

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 5:23AM

Send it in to PCGS. Let them make the determination. bob

I live in the UK, so postage to the US plus submissions will cost a bit. I don't want to waste my money if there's a good chance it is a fake. If it is genuine I would have liked to have kept it as I've never owned a US Trade Dollar before.

lkeigwin · July 23, 2012 5:23AM

What did the magnet say? Yes, I think it is fake but curious if it is steel.
Lance.

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 5:28AM

What did the magnet say? Yes, I think it is fake but curious if it is steel.

Its non magnetic so if it is a fake, since it is the exact right size and weight, I would expect it to be struck in silver.

Could it be genuine but an unlisted mintmark location? It is from the UK after all, I have found some scarce US colonial coins over here before that have probably been over in the UK for decades if not centuries.

Either that or the counterfeits are getting Veeerrrrry good.

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 5:46AM

PCGS has an office in Paris, try that one for grading.

If it is the real deal you will just have to get it in PCGS or NGC plastic to realize the true
value. So, if you still think it has a chance send it in asap.

Oh, what was the thickness, again?

bob

stealer · July 23, 2012 6:40AM

I'll have to disagree with Bob here, I don't think it has a shot at being genuine nor is it worth a try

TennesseeDave · July 23, 2012 7:24AM

Sorry but I can't say for sure either way. I have a 73-S that fooled me and even after Pcgs said it was Questionable authenticity I am not 100% convinced. Yours appears to have XF details but 0 luster so that would worry me by itself. The mintmark location could be the wide MM type,but I am not sure if it was used in 74 .I am anxious to hear what Crypto might say.

JamesM · July 23, 2012 7:36AM

"I would expect it to be struck in silver."

Very unlikely

I have seen them in hand, some have a yellowish metal and some are a silver lookalike.

But they never pass an acid test, once you file past the outer shell.

stealer · July 23, 2012 7:38AM

<< <i>Sorry but I can't say for sure either way. I have a 73-S that fooled me and even after Pcgs said it was Questionable authenticity I am not 100% convinced. Yours appears to have XF details but 0 luster so that would worry me by itself. The mintmark location could be the wide MM type,but I am not sure if it was used in 74 .I am anxious to hear what Crypto might say. >>

Dave, check out the second star from the right, it has one funky looking point that is pretty much a case closed for me as fake. What do you think?

AUandAG · July 23, 2012 9:03AM

Very late across the pond, now, but in the morning perhaps we can get a specific gravity test
and get the results. Oh, what is the thickness, again?

bob

Justlooking · July 23, 2012 9:48AM

Are these the world's most-counterfeited coins? I'd be scared to buy one raw. I like the toning, though.

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 5:26PM

Very late across the pond, now, but in the morning perhaps we can get a specific gravity test and get the results. Oh, what is the thickness, again?

I'm just off to work now. I'll need to change the battery in my digital callipers for an accurate thickness test tonight. How do I do a gravity test??

Hussulo · July 23, 2012 5:42PM

Very late across the pond, now, but in the morning perhaps we can get a specific gravity test and get the results. Oh, what is the thickness, again?

I'm just off to work now. I'll need to change the battery in my digital callipers for an accurate thickness test tonight. How do I do a gravity test??

mr1931S · July 23, 2012 8:56PM

Watch this video to learn how to do your own specific gravity test

Text

Even if the piece tests right on with good equipment,good technique and accurate calculations,you will still have your doubts.

Seems to me that it would be more cost,and time,effective to send to PCGS.

crypto79 · July 23, 2012 9:51PM

<< <i>Watch this video to learn how to do your own specific gravity test

Text

Even if the piece tests right on with good equipment,good technique and accurate calculations,you will still have your doubts.

Seems to me that it would be more cost,and time,effective to send to PCGS. >>

I have found a cheaper way to see if it is legit is to take it to a couple of dealers asking for a cash offer. That tells you just about all you need to know about a coin. IMO don't waste your 70$ sending it to pcgs

DDR · July 24, 2012 3:46AM

I've looked at a lot of Trade dollars, and that one says "fake" to me.

Hussulo · July 25, 2012 3:20AM

I just wanted to thank everyone for their opinions and expertise and I have acted on them.
I have contacted the seller informing them that it has been thought to be a counterfiet by many knowledgeable Trade Dollar collectors and as such I wasn't happy to keep it or add it to my collection. The seller has agreed on a refund, so the coin is in the post back to them today.

1874 CC Trade Dollar, Crusty and a little worn

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