This will also attract currency people in general and ones hoping to get a fancy serial numbered bill. I found this like about the sets, not sure if it has been posted: Sets Link
Wow! If minted to demand. That's ridiculous. I didn't order the sf anniversary set. Now the mint needs to design a set that also contains the reverse proof.
just got off the phone with PCGS... any coins from this set can be sent in to them opened as long as the package you send them is postmarked before their FS designation cutoff date. This is not just for the FS but if you want them designated as the 75th Anni set. Anything sent in after the FS cutoff will have to be in the original mint shipping package for them to designate it as the 75th Anni set. Hope this helps some... Still very upset at the mint, and also upset that any set ordered outside of the first ship date of 7/27 cannot be cherrypicked and must be sent in blind to get them holdered as a set.
Does this 'minted to demand' also mean that the RP could possibly come out later in a different manner?
On another note, do we know how many labels will be available and the cost of each of those for a set. I guess I'll be e-mailing PCGS tomorrow to see if Mercanti First Strike Flag 75th Anniversary labels are in the offing.
<< <i>Does this 'minted to demand' also mean that the RP could possibly come out later in a different manner?
On another note, do we know how many labels will be available and the cost of each of those for a set. I guess I'll be e-mailing PCGS tomorrow to see if Mercanti First Strike Flag 75th Anniversary labels are in the offing. >>
Modern $14 plus $18 FS... and yes, there are 3 labels offered, the two you mentioned and one 75th Annie label w/o FS designation. So for me, $32 per coin and that gives me FS with the Flag label. Here is a link from PCGS explaining more...
Nice sucker punch on us by the Mint. What will they offer in Oct. - a "Making American History 2012-S Reverse Proof ASE complete with a $10.00 note from the BEP"?
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast. - Jim
<< <i>Nice sucker punch on us by the Mint. What will they offer in Oct. - a "Making American History 2012-S Reverse Proof ASE complete with a $10.00 note from the BEP"? >>
There's probably a committee that meets regulary on how to jerk customers expectations up and down.
I didn't buy this set, and am happy to have missed the "oppurtunity", but I'm hoping for those that did the RP doesn't get a repack before year-end.
Remember, it is the 75th anniversary packaging (2-coin set) that were limited to a 30 day ordeing period, NOT the individual coins themselves. I bet we see other "S" mint offerings yet this year. Perhaps a reverse proof along with a burnished "S" coin in a set of some kind. They did this back in 2006 by issuing the "W" coin separate from the set after the sets had been sold with the assumption that the coin could only be had by buying the 3-coin set.
No one should be shocked by this (another example of special packaging and great wordsmithing to describe a "limited" product).
Question.... Based on the price trends (values) of the 25 Th Anniversary ASE set of 5 coins, Would PCGS FS Flag labelled coins bring a higher value vs. the John M Mercanti FS Label for the 2 coins 75Th anniversary PF ASE coins?
I just got the word from the mints public affairs (202 area code) office that the proof coin will be "S" mint marked, the same coin that was half of the 2 coin set sold out two weeks ago. I suggested that collectors felt betrayed and why. Also that by offering a same proof coin rather than a different surface, they were killing sales as well as causing cancelling of 2 coin sets.
<< <i>Question.... Based on the price trends (values) of the 25 Th Anniversary ASE set of 5 coins, Would PCGS FS Flag labelled coins bring a higher value vs. the John M Mercanti FS Label for the 2 coins 75Th anniversary PF ASE coins? >>
Lots of labels for the 25th but the Flag Mercanti comands the highest premium over the others. There are differences with others. I do not see regular FS Flags with a premium over FS Mercanti's.
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
<< <i><<Also that by offering a same proof coin rather than a different surface, they were killing sales as well as causing cancelling of 2 coin sets. >>
However, on the "bright" side, every cancelled order will result in a lower total for the other coin in the anniversary set.
Assuming, of course, that they also don't sell that individually later this year. >>
Later this year when they publish the audited sales numbers, then we'll know the effect. They may call out the 2 coin set and coin/note set separately or just the final numbers for the "S" proof ASE. And hopefully no additional set including the reverse proof at all. This has to be a deliberate business decision to maximize sales of mint products. Not illegal but ethically questionable. They kept this future product secret while promoting sales of the two coin set through home page feature status, limited ordering period and sales odometer. All along knowing they would introduce this coin/note set. Manipulation and marketing trickery through careful word choice. One of the reasons people hate lawyers is the legal lying by omission of facts. "Why didn't I tell you? Because you never asked. Never mind that by my omission you wouldn't know to ask." But sometimes these people are too tricky for their own good. Think Enron and Worldcom. The mint may have shot them selves in the foot through this manipulation of collectors. Trust will be lost. Short term gains will be offset by long term loss of their customer base. Additional sales through repackaging of existing products will not compared to actual new and different offerings that generate enthusiasm. End of rant...for now.
Don't get too overheated about the Mint's 75th Set "trickery." This is nothing new and you can bet it WILL happen again and again. It's the price we pay to play the game.
It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. However, in this particular instance with the counter, the limited time to order and all the hype, it does seem underhanded somehow. And, if any of those sets ship before the 10/31 SF orders, that's good enough reason to hit the cancel button and just take the MCM graded ER set and be done with it.
The PCGS informational page on labelling of the 75th Anniv Sets is dated 6/22.
Clearly, we all know the rules.
If the new "coin and currency" set somehow ships immediately after it's release (8/7), it will affect the date in which "sealed" anniversay sets have to be received by PCGS in order to get the 75th anniversay labelling.
If the 75th anniversary sets ship (and the start date for FS) is 7/27, PCGS will allow the coins to be submitted "open" for 30 days. But if the second "coin and currency" set ship (and start date is 8/7), then 8/7 concludes the ability to ship 75th anniversary sets "open" in order to receive the 75th anniversary label on the regular S proof.
This does not affect the S Reverse proof, but by being in the same box, which would have to then be submitted sealed, it is somewhat affected as well (if you want 75th anniv labelling on the regular S proof).
7over8 you are right with clarification. If the mint follows it's past order-to-ship delay, then add in transit time to your home then on to PCGS, it doesn't seem likely that the "S" proof in the coin/note set will make the FS deadline. If the new set doesn't ship till after 8/27 then sealed or not, it won't be eligible for FS. I don't think the coin/note set shipping immediately on, lets say 8/8, kills the FS eligibility for the 75th Ann. set at 8/8. Does it?
As I understand the rules, FS is OK in the first 30 days after shipping from the mint, sealed or open. There after, only sealed mint shipping boxes post marked inside the 30 day limit, in this case 8/27, will be accepted as FS candidates, basically forever. Do I have it right?
I think the 75th Anniversary Sets will still be decent, but this is kind of low on the Mint's part if you ask me (I didn't buy any of the 75ths).
And I thought they were improving things by offering a set that was still limited but available to everyone....but no, they have to milk it for all its worth.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i> I don't think the coin/note set shipping immediately on, lets say 8/8, kills the FS eligibility for the 75th Ann. set at 8/8. Does it? >>
In your question above, it doesnt kill the FS designation at 8/8 for the anniv set in the example given.....but does kill the 75th Anniversary Set labelling on the same label. If the coin and currency set ships for example on 8/7 or 8/8, receiving "open" regular S proof ASE's wouldnt indicate where those S proofs came from (75th anniv set or C&C set)
Based on my past experience, FS will run for a full 30 days from first shipments, if you happen to buy AND receive a 2012 coin and currency set before the 30 day period expires, you can get FS on that S Proof ASE.
<< This exact scenario played out with the 2006-W Burnished SAE, 2006-W Proof SAE and the 2006 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets. The 2006 20th Anniversary Set's announcement in early August 2006 was met with applause which turned to boo's when the 2006-W SAE individual coin was announced in late August 2006. Sales and orders were lackluster to say the least. The 2006 20th Anniversary set suffered some boo's as well since the Proof coin (2006-W) had been available months (Feb 2nd, 2006) before the set announcement. So, 2 out of the three coins were available as individual orders which left the Reverse Proof as the solitary "unique" coin for the Set. Orders opened in August for the 20th Anniversary Set and had not sold out by October 23rd. Thats a full two months that the set, with a PUBLISHED maximum of 250,000 sets, sat waiting to be ordered. >>
The biggest culprit in this scenario was the 10-set order limit per address, which remained in force throughout the entire ordering period. These sets were bringing $150 to $175 each on eBay shortly after deliveries started, even though the sets were still "available" from the mint at $100 per set.
If the order limits had not been in place, the 2006 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets would have sold out much sooner.
<< <i>It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. >>
This is true but IMOP, they should, annually, publish a list of products they anticipate offering in the upcoming year. >>
Agreed for some products you can't find them or see them until right before release even when the whole country knows for months the Mint is about to offer them for sale.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Don't assume this proof s/ currency set will be a winner. Those that wanted the S proof already purchased it I believe. This set could be DOA. If the mint was smart they would have offered an S minted burnished ASE. The set is now priced at $72.95
The jury is still out on the 2012-S proof ASE. There are a few different ways it could go: The mintage exceeding the 1994 (currently the 2nd lowest proof at 372,168), the coin & currency set could have bad sales numbers and the 2012-S proof could fail to overtake the 1994, or the best scenario would be some type of error or design change with the latter 75th production or with the C&C set.
<< <i>In all seriousness, doesn't this latest offering totally invalidate the entire "mint counter/limited sales period" nonsense that was used for the set?
Really...what was the point of any of that exercise now? >>
It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set.
<< <i>It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set. >>
A definitely good marketing tool at that. I resisted to, but I think the RP will still be a very good collector's piece. The regular proof makes for good melt or kids toy.
<< <i>It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set. >>
A definitely good marketing tool at that. I resisted to, but I think the RP will still be a very good collector's piece. The regular proof makes for good melt or kids toy. >>
It was way above what I thought it would be priced at. I would've bought one set otherwise.
The Mint has gone overboard with milking the ASE series. Over saturation is killing it.
Here's an idea for the Coin & Currency set - make the 2012-S eagle with the mint mark on the obverse, where it appeared on the half dollars of 1916 and 1917. That way, the mint would sell LOTS of those sets. Collectors would be happy, and the mint would make a larger profit. Everybody wins.
Sales of previous C&C sets have been around 75K ??...........That really should not throw the mintage of the "S" coin way out of whack...........and the RP coin is really the Key of that 75th set.
Assuming no design differences among the different offerings of the 2012-S proof, and if the cumulative sales stay under 375,000, I'd say PR69DCAM FS will sell on eBay at around $125-150 a year from now. The 1994 is currently fetching $100-150 in 69 (they didn't do FS in 1994). And based on the 2006 RP sales, I think we can reasonably expect another $50-100 on the RP in 69. Therefore, the set should do okay at $250+ in 69. And, with any luck, there might be a few 70s as a bonus!
Comments
<< <i>I think we should all cancel our 75th Set orders!!! READY GO...
Go ahead, all of you with early orders, I have over 3 months to hit the cancel button!
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Will these be made to demand? >>
I read on a site that says yes. Look at my post above and click the link.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Now the mint needs to design a set that also contains the reverse proof.
Box of 20
Erik
On another note, do we know how many labels will be available and the cost of each of those for a set. I guess I'll be
e-mailing PCGS tomorrow to see if Mercanti First Strike Flag 75th Anniversary labels are in the offing.
<< <i>Does this 'minted to demand' also mean that the RP could possibly come out later in a different manner?
On another note, do we know how many labels will be available and the cost of each of those for a set. I guess I'll be
e-mailing PCGS tomorrow to see if Mercanti First Strike Flag 75th Anniversary labels are in the offing. >>
Modern $14 plus $18 FS... and yes, there are 3 labels offered, the two you mentioned and one 75th Annie label w/o FS designation. So for me, $32 per coin and that gives me FS with the Flag label. Here is a link from PCGS explaining more...
PCGS 75th Link
Erik
Guess that e-mail is in order.
- Jim
<< <i>Nice sucker punch on us by the Mint. What will they offer in Oct. - a "Making American History 2012-S Reverse Proof ASE complete with a $10.00 note from the BEP"?
There's probably a committee that meets regulary on how to jerk customers expectations up and down.
I didn't buy this set, and am happy to have missed the "oppurtunity", but I'm hoping for those that did the RP doesn't get a repack before year-end.
<< <i>
<< <i>Will these be made to demand? >>
I read on a site that says yes. Look at my post above and click the link. >>
This does NOT say "minted to demand" ...it says ...well....nothing
<< <i>Pricing is listed at $72.95 with no maximum product limit or ordering limit indicated. >>
They could have made x number of them and will sell them until they are gone
No one should be shocked by this (another example of special packaging and great wordsmithing to describe a "limited" product).
<< <i>was directed to the mints 202 number >>
What is the "202" number?
S-T-E-E-E-R-I-K-E ...3
Gotcha!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
I suggested that collectors felt betrayed and why. Also that by offering a same proof coin rather than a different surface, they were killing sales as well as causing cancelling of 2 coin sets.
<< <i>Question.... Based on the price trends (values) of the 25 Th Anniversary ASE set of 5 coins, Would PCGS FS Flag labelled coins bring a higher value vs. the John M Mercanti FS Label for the 2 coins 75Th anniversary PF ASE coins? >>
Lots of labels for the 25th but the Flag Mercanti comands the highest premium over the others. There are differences with others. I do not see regular FS Flags with a premium over FS Mercanti's.
Perfect.
However, on the "bright" side, every cancelled order will result in a lower total for the other coin in the anniversary set.
Assuming, of course, that they also don't sell that individually later this year.
<< <i><<Also that by offering a same proof coin rather than a different surface, they were killing sales as well as causing cancelling of 2 coin sets. >>
However, on the "bright" side, every cancelled order will result in a lower total for the other coin in the anniversary set.
Assuming, of course, that they also don't sell that individually later this year. >>
Later this year when they publish the audited sales numbers, then we'll know the effect. They may call out the 2 coin set and coin/note set separately or just the final numbers for the "S" proof ASE. And hopefully no additional set including the reverse proof at all.
This has to be a deliberate business decision to maximize sales of mint products. Not illegal but ethically questionable. They kept this future product secret while promoting sales of the two coin set through home page feature status, limited ordering period and sales odometer. All along knowing they would introduce this coin/note set. Manipulation and marketing trickery through careful word choice. One of the reasons people hate lawyers is the legal lying by omission of facts. "Why didn't I tell you? Because you never asked. Never mind that by my omission you wouldn't know to ask."
But sometimes these people are too tricky for their own good. Think Enron and Worldcom. The mint may have shot them selves in the foot through this manipulation of collectors. Trust will be lost. Short term gains will be offset by long term loss of their customer base. Additional sales through repackaging of existing products will not compared to actual new and different offerings that generate enthusiasm.
End of rant...for now.
Guess The Mint may have learned a thing or 2 after all from the AP's.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Clearly, we all know the rules.
If the new "coin and currency" set somehow ships immediately after it's release (8/7), it will affect the date in which "sealed" anniversay sets have to be received by PCGS in order to get the 75th anniversay labelling.
If the 75th anniversary sets ship (and the start date for FS) is 7/27, PCGS will allow the coins to be submitted "open" for 30 days. But if the second "coin and currency" set ship (and start date is 8/7), then 8/7 concludes the ability to ship 75th anniversary sets "open" in order to receive the 75th anniversary label on the regular S proof.
This does not affect the S Reverse proof, but by being in the same box, which would have to then be submitted sealed, it is somewhat affected as well (if you want 75th anniv labelling on the regular S proof).
As I understand the rules, FS is OK in the first 30 days after shipping from the mint, sealed or open. There after, only sealed mint shipping boxes post marked inside the 30 day limit, in this case 8/27, will be accepted as FS candidates, basically forever. Do I have it right?
And I thought they were improving things by offering a set that was still limited but available to everyone....but no, they have to milk it for all its worth.
<< <i> I don't think the coin/note set shipping immediately on, lets say 8/8, kills the FS eligibility for the 75th Ann. set at 8/8. Does it? >>
In your question above, it doesnt kill the FS designation at 8/8 for the anniv set in the example given.....but does kill the 75th Anniversary Set labelling on the same label. If the coin and currency set ships for example on 8/7 or 8/8, receiving "open" regular S proof ASE's wouldnt indicate where those S proofs came from (75th anniv set or C&C set)
Based on my past experience, FS will run for a full 30 days from first shipments, if you happen to buy AND receive a 2012 coin and currency set before the 30 day period expires, you can get FS on that S Proof ASE.
The biggest culprit in this scenario was the 10-set order limit per address, which remained in force throughout the entire ordering period. These sets were bringing $150 to $175 each on eBay shortly after deliveries started, even though the sets were still "available" from the mint at $100 per set.
If the order limits had not been in place, the 2006 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets would have sold out much sooner.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. >>
This is true but IMOP, they should, annually, publish a list of products they anticipate offering in the upcoming year.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. >>
This is true but IMOP, they should, annually, publish a list of products they anticipate offering in the upcoming year. >>
Agreed for some products you can't find them or see them until right before release even when the whole country knows for months the Mint is about to offer them for sale.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Box of 20
<< <i>It's too bad the mint doesn't send around one of it's surveys now. I'd have some real constructive comments... >>
I think the Mint needs to do that also. Many people might welcome the opportunity to express some views.
That would have made their customers happy and more sales for them. I guess they gotta do something with all those proof planchets they shipped to SF.
Really...what was the point of any of that exercise now?
Just something to think about.
<< <i>In all seriousness, doesn't this latest offering totally invalidate the entire "mint counter/limited sales period" nonsense that was used for the set?
Really...what was the point of any of that exercise now? >>
It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set.
<< <i>It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set. >>
A definitely good marketing tool at that. I resisted to, but I think the RP will still be a very good collector's piece. The regular proof makes for good melt or kids toy.
<< <i>
<< <i>It was a marketing tool, to tempt you to pull the trigger. The countdown especially.
I resisted, but it was difficult not to buy at least one set. >>
A definitely good marketing tool at that. I resisted to, but I think the RP will still be a very good collector's piece. The regular proof makes for good melt or kids toy. >>
It was way above what I thought it would be priced at. I would've bought one set otherwise.
The Mint has gone overboard with milking the ASE series. Over saturation is killing it.
I have a great idea:
Reverse of 2007!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Jim