<< <i>It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. >>
This is true but IMOP, they should, annually, publish a list of products they anticipate offering in the upcoming year. >>
Agree 100% with this to be upfront with the products. That was my point really, that it's ok for them to mint however many coins they want and disregard the gripes of customers who are just in for the flip, the boo hoo whiners. BUT, for them to pull this particular trick with the special SF set, limited time, blah blah, just to bring the C&C set out immediately with one of the same coins, cheaper no less, AND potentially ship it sooner to the newer set buyers rather than to those who ordered it first - it's pooping on your loyal customers IMOP.
The C&C set hasn't been on my radar in the past. Any body have experience with previous sets? Does it typically include a Proof coin? An ASE? And sell as stated around 75k sets? Their order to ship timing?
Just thinking about this new C&C set to be offered 8/7.....
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm.
<< <i>Just thinking about this new C&C set to be offered 8/7.....
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm. >>
I suspect this was there back-up plan for leftovers. Would not be surprised about the RP's
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Just thinking about this new C&C set to be offered 8/7.....
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm. >>
Seems plausible and quite likely to me. Guess we'll see what happens with the R proofs.
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First Run was 150K. Seems the mint did a second run of 150K. They probably have 50K leftover. Could see a single offering of the Reverse Proof later on also.
Lets say it's true that 2 batches of 150k were minted. It was the manipulative repackaging of a product that is sickening. Ok, they want to sell every one minted. That's understandable. Why undermine the credibility of the mint by repackaging? Why not treat the surface like the 5oz ATB and do a vapor blast finish? Why not offer something you already do and have the equipment for? Added costs? It was your mistake to mint too many. You weren't charging enough already? Come on! You could sell all the over run of both regular and reverse proof and then some in the same C&C packaging by vapor blasting. And have another hit with high profit margins. The thought process of the marketing team and new product development team is baffling.
It takes the us mint months to purchase packaging ect ect and then to contract with the BEP for $5 notes with certain serial numbers for this set...........not likely thought up in 3 weeks........sales of previous C&C sets have always had a certain key coin.........not a coin that was already issued in another set (1994 jefferson SMS) 1997 Botanical set, 2000 Millenium set (had a burnish no MM W eagle) Each of these sets bring around 70-75 dollars retail now........For the currency guys they would look at this set for fancy or repeat serial numbers maybe low numbers if possible...........I would think pcgs and the other TPG's would label coins from this set as special like they did with the 2000 sets.
<< <i>It takes the us mint months to purchase packaging ect ect and then to contract with the BEP for $5 notes with certain serial numbers for this set...........not likely thought up in 3 weeks..........I would think pcgs and the other TPG's would label coins from this set as special like they did with the 2000 sets. >>
That's my thoughts Dice21. The plan to use the proof "S" ASE, the packaging design, getting back bids, coordinating with the SF mint and BEP, all the committee meetings...everything involved had to take months. So it was a calculated plan to hype the 75th Ann. sets, then spring the additional use of the same coin in a different package. That's dishonest, manipulative and fraudulent. It also shows the level of contempt the mint has for it's customer base. They think we won't notice, that we are stupid, that we can't see what they did. And there was no reason to do it. Just offer a special distinct surface and wind up the hype machine. If sales are high enough and shipping of the C&C sets is beyond the FS window of the 75th set, then they might have a designation label. But I am not sure it will happen. Did the TPG's have labels for prior C&C set coins?
You mean the Fdrl govt would actually "stick it" to the people. No way! They love the people and are only there to be helpful. That is why I want it to be more bigger an powerful.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The only one I am aware of is the 2000 millenium set which get a special label if submitted in original packaging even today.......You cut the package in half and send in the half with the silver eagle *note* these also came with a burnished sacagawea that was only in this set and was side by side with the silver eagle.......Did the us mint know they were going to sell this set (150 anniversary) YES without a doubt!!!...........
<< <i>Interesting how Americas free market capitalism is lauded until it affects ones speculative potential bottom line. >>
American capitalism infers hard work and innovation. Repackaging is the lazy way. Why not package one with a roll of "S" ATB quarters and call it another tribute to the SF mint? Innovative would have been to include a distinctively different coin, not the exact same one offered in another set. Although not specifically stated, it was inferred that to get a proof "S" ASE and a reverse proof "S" ASE dated 2012, you would have to buy a two coin set at a high price. Now to offer this new set which include the exact same coin, I feel I was manipulated and lied to. A calculated planned lie. That's what has me disgusted with the mints actions. I ordered one set. Never planned to flip it. If I was a flipper, then I would have assumed the risk of turning a profit by speculating and taken my profit or loss with out whining or bragging. Just like buying Face Book or Google stock. One turned out good, one didn't. Attempt a killing by flipping, be prepare to get burned fingers once in a while. That's free market capitalism. Not having a deliberate con game perpetrated on the collecting public.
<< <i>If you've ever owned a successful business, you owe your success to our government!
This was taken out of context of what was actually said by O. Go to Hardball with Chris Matthews to see what he actually said. This is a distortion. >>
And exactly the same thing was said by Mit at one campaign stop....untill O. said it, then it became un-american and he blasted it.
Sorry to get off topic but hypocrisy just burns my butt....from either side.
I just went back to see what the description of the 75th Anniversary set was...
and I noticed, the Mint doesn't say anything about the 75th Anniversary.
They just say it's a San Fran. Proof set.
This leaves the door open to mint more coins, as they are not saying it was a special coin for a special occasion.
Which got me thinking, who came up with this 75th Anniversary thing? Because, unless the Mint removed verbiage about it, someone else made it up.
Furthermore, they might make this set every year, so what will 2013's set be called, the 76th Anniversary ??
So, bottom line for me is, if there is no verbiage that comes in the package, from the Mint, saying these are 75th Anniversary sets, then they are NOT.
<< Did the TPG's have labels for prior C&C set coins? >>
If I recall correctly, the 1994-P and 1997-P Jeffersons from the sets were designated "SMS", the 2000-D Sacawagea dollar and the 2000 Silver Eagle from the set were designated "Millennium Set". I expect a special designation to be offered for the current Coin and Currency set also.
<< <i>I just went back to see what the description of the 75th Anniversary set was...
and I noticed, the Mint doesn't say anything about the 75th Anniversary.
They just say it's a San Fran. Proof set.
This leaves the door open to mint more coins, as they are not saying it was a special coin for a special occasion.
Which got me thinking, who came up with this 75th Anniversary thing? Because, unless the Mint removed verbiage about it, someone else made it up.
Furthermore, they might make this set every year, so what will 2013's set be called, the 76th Anniversary ??
So, bottom line for me is, if there is no verbiage that comes in the package, from the Mint, saying these are 75th Anniversary sets, then they are NOT.
What do you all think? >>
Agree but at first it was thought to be an anniversary set. It sure seemed that the Mint intended to sell these coins within a limited window of time and not within a limited window of time plus sell the leftovers immediately following...bad form IMO.
This article in Silver Coins Today, April 27th:
The two-coin proof set will go on sale for four weeks only, beginning on June 7, 2012 and lasting through July 5, 2012. Based on past product release dates, times and imposed deadlines, the set should get released at noon ET on the 7th and then go off sale at 5:00 PM ET on the 5th.
These details will effectively ensure that anyone who wants to buy a set can, which will reduce if not eliminate entirely the problems many collectors experienced with the launch of last year’s 25th Anniversary American Silver Eagle Set. But it also means that mintages could explode, especially if there are no per household order limits in place. Currently, none are specified. But that detail is usually added closer to a product’s release.
Additionally, the new product is not a 75th Anniversary San Francisco Set which celebrates the opening of the current SF Mint building. This CoinNews.net article reveals that. The possibility has been mentioned on several numismatic sites, including here
Correct...the 75th thing was dispelled quite a while ago on these boards....the issue is that this "new" set was in production when the "mint to demand" special set was being sold. What is the point of a sales tracker update if more of the same coins were known (not by us) to be getting ready for sale...
Just opened my email and then the Coinworld email which is usual Monday morning covering the new issue. From the index I see an article is on page 56 by Paul Gilkes about the mints new offering of the C&C set and go right to it. A clip from that article: It's nice to see the mint admit that they knew about the C&C set and what it would include before the 75th 2 coin set was announced and that their wording was lacking. Also that there is no plan to offer the reverse proof in any other set. Thank goodness. I suppose this is as close to a confession that they pulled a fast one as anyone could expect.
<< <i>Just opened my email and then the Coinworld email which is usual Monday morning covering the new issue. From the index I see an article is on page 56 by Paul Gilkes about the mints new offering of the C&C set and go right to it. A clip from that article: It's nice to see the mint admit that they knew about the C&C set and what it would include before the 75th 2 coin set was announced and that their wording was lacking. Also that there is no plan to offer the reverse proof in any other set. Thank goodness. I suppose this is as close to a confession that they pulled a fast one as anyone could expect. >>
Yes, but don't you know the Mint has many mouths or at least forks in the tongue
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
It is kinda weird that they haven't started charging CC's yet.....
Also on the weird list is the fact that they still haven't repriced the ASE proof......it sure isn't because silver is spiking or plummeting....just churning around $27
Interesting........ The stated shipping date on a couple of my July ordered 75Th Anniv. ASE Proof sets has changed to "7/27/12" !!!! There original USM shipping dates had been 10/12.
<< <i>Interesting........ The stated shipping date on a couple of my July ordered 75Th Anniv. ASE Proof sets has changed to "7/27/12" !!!! There original USM shipping dates had been 10/12. >>
bazinga
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
<< <i>Order number: 39688xxx Order Date: 06/07/2012 at 12:14 AM Order Status: Your order request is in process. 2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 5 $149.95 $749.75 In stock and reserved >>
Looks like single sets shipped 7/27. I had quite a few.
My other orders of multiple sets are picked but not shipped yet - and they were ordered before my single sets. Shipping to continue over the next several days.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>It's ok for the Mint to be in the business of selling coins and not catering to flippers or worrying about diluting the population of ASE's. >>
This is true but IMOP, they should, annually, publish a list of products they anticipate offering in the upcoming year. >>
Agree 100% with this to be upfront with the products. That was my point really, that it's ok for them to mint however many coins they want and disregard the gripes of customers who are just in for the flip, the boo hoo whiners. BUT, for them to pull this particular trick with the special SF set, limited time, blah blah, just to bring the C&C set out immediately with one of the same coins, cheaper no less, AND potentially ship it sooner to the newer set buyers rather than to those who ordered it first - it's pooping on your loyal customers IMOP.
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm.
<< <i>Just thinking about this new C&C set to be offered 8/7.....
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm. >>
I suspect this was there back-up plan for leftovers. Would not be surprised about the RP's
<< <i>Just thinking about this new C&C set to be offered 8/7.....
Originally, many of us thought an issue of 350,000 Anniversary Sets would have been reasonable given the one month timeframe to order. We came in at approx. 250,000. Lower than expected.
Did the USM in all their wisdom expect more and mint additional quantities of S Mint Regular Proofs and given the lower than expected sales of the 75th Anniv Set, come up with another offering to sell remaining coins?
Yep - sounds far fetched, but this product offering was not mentioned anywhere in any literature before last week.......when did they plan this product?
And if you "buy the idea" of the additional minted S Mint Regular Proofs, is there another offering around the corner of S Mint Reverse Proofs? Hmmmmm. >>
Seems plausible and quite likely to me. Guess we'll see what happens with the R proofs.
Box of 20
<< <i>It takes the us mint months to purchase packaging ect ect and then to contract with the BEP for $5 notes with certain serial numbers for this set...........not likely thought up in 3 weeks..........I would think pcgs and the other TPG's would label coins from this set as special like they did with the 2000 sets. >>
That's my thoughts Dice21. The plan to use the proof "S" ASE, the packaging design, getting back bids, coordinating with the SF mint and BEP, all the committee meetings...everything involved had to take months. So it was a calculated plan to hype the 75th Ann. sets, then spring the additional use of the same coin in a different package. That's dishonest, manipulative and fraudulent. It also shows the level of contempt the mint has for it's customer base. They think we won't notice, that we are stupid, that we can't see what they did. And there was no reason to do it. Just offer a special distinct surface and wind up the hype machine.
If sales are high enough and shipping of the C&C sets is beyond the FS window of the 75th set, then they might have a designation label. But I am not sure it will happen. Did the TPG's have labels for prior C&C set coins?
Interesting how Americas free market capitalism is lauded until it affects ones speculative potential bottom line.
<< <i>If you've ever owned a successful business, you owe your success to our government!
Yes, you are correct.
Unless you’ve educated your employees, built your own roads, railways, bridges and provided your own security.
This was taken out of context of what was actually said by O. Go to Hardball with Chris Matthews to see what he actually said. This is a distortion.
Box of 20
<< <i>Interesting how Americas free market capitalism is lauded until it affects ones speculative potential bottom line. >>
American capitalism infers hard work and innovation. Repackaging is the lazy way. Why not package one with a roll of "S" ATB quarters and call it another tribute to the SF mint? Innovative would have been to include a distinctively different coin, not the exact same one offered in another set.
Although not specifically stated, it was inferred that to get a proof "S" ASE and a reverse proof "S" ASE dated 2012, you would have to buy a two coin set at a high price. Now to offer this new set which include the exact same coin, I feel I was manipulated and lied to. A calculated planned lie. That's what has me disgusted with the mints actions.
I ordered one set. Never planned to flip it. If I was a flipper, then I would have assumed the risk of turning a profit by speculating and taken my profit or loss with out whining or bragging. Just like buying Face Book or Google stock. One turned out good, one didn't. Attempt a killing by flipping, be prepare to get burned fingers once in a while. That's free market capitalism. Not having a deliberate con game perpetrated on the collecting public.
<< <i>If you've ever owned a successful business, you owe your success to our government!
This was taken out of context of what was actually said by O. Go to Hardball with Chris Matthews to see what he actually said. This is a distortion. >>
And exactly the same thing was said by Mit at one campaign stop....untill O. said it, then it became un-american and he blasted it.
Sorry to get off topic but hypocrisy just burns my butt....from either side.
and I noticed, the Mint doesn't say anything about the 75th Anniversary.
They just say it's a San Fran. Proof set.
This leaves the door open to mint more coins, as they are not saying it was a special coin for a special occasion.
Which got me thinking, who came up with this 75th Anniversary thing? Because, unless the Mint removed verbiage about it, someone else made it up.
Furthermore, they might make this set every year, so what will 2013's set be called, the 76th Anniversary ??
So, bottom line for me is, if there is no verbiage that comes in the package, from the Mint, saying these are 75th Anniversary sets, then they are NOT.
What do you all think?
If I recall correctly, the 1994-P and 1997-P Jeffersons from the sets were designated "SMS", the 2000-D Sacawagea dollar and the 2000 Silver Eagle from the set were designated "Millennium Set". I expect a special designation to be offered for the current Coin and Currency set also.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Interesting how Americas free market capitalism is lauded until it affects ones speculative potential bottom line. >>
Wait; The U.S. Mint=Free Market Capitalism?
<< <i>I just went back to see what the description of the 75th Anniversary set was...
and I noticed, the Mint doesn't say anything about the 75th Anniversary.
They just say it's a San Fran. Proof set.
This leaves the door open to mint more coins, as they are not saying it was a special coin for a special occasion.
Which got me thinking, who came up with this 75th Anniversary thing? Because, unless the Mint removed verbiage about it, someone else made it up.
Furthermore, they might make this set every year, so what will 2013's set be called, the 76th Anniversary ??
So, bottom line for me is, if there is no verbiage that comes in the package, from the Mint, saying these are 75th Anniversary sets, then they are NOT.
What do you all think? >>
Agree but at first it was thought to be an anniversary set. It sure seemed that the Mint intended to sell these coins within a limited window of time and not within a limited window of time plus sell the leftovers immediately following...bad form IMO.
This article in Silver Coins Today, April 27th:
The two-coin proof set will go on sale for four weeks only, beginning on June 7, 2012 and lasting through July 5, 2012. Based on past product release dates, times and imposed deadlines, the set should get released at noon ET on the 7th and then go off sale at 5:00 PM ET on the 5th.
These details will effectively ensure that anyone who wants to buy a set can, which will reduce if not eliminate entirely the problems many collectors experienced with the launch of last year’s 25th Anniversary American Silver Eagle Set. But it also means that mintages could explode, especially if there are no per household order limits in place. Currently, none are specified. But that detail is usually added closer to a product’s release.
Additionally, the new product is not a 75th Anniversary San Francisco Set which celebrates the opening of the current SF Mint building. This CoinNews.net article reveals that. The possibility has been mentioned on several numismatic sites, including here
Kinda like the 25th Annie label that is on both the 2010 AND 2011 ASE slabs
I suppose this is as close to a confession that they pulled a fast one as anyone could expect.
<< <i>Just opened my email and then the Coinworld email which is usual Monday morning covering the new issue. From the index I see an article is on page 56 by Paul Gilkes about the mints new offering of the C&C set and go right to it. A clip from that article:
I suppose this is as close to a confession that they pulled a fast one as anyone could expect. >>
Yes, but don't you know the Mint has many mouths or at least forks in the tongue
thanks for the clarification on the 75th Anniversary set, i must have missed the thread when it was discussed.
Mine is still there with 7/27 ship date.
joe
It is kinda weird that they haven't started charging CC's yet.....
Also on the weird list is the fact that they still haven't repriced the ASE proof......it sure isn't because silver is spiking or plummeting....just churning around $27
EDIT: I asked this question months ago, even received a PM
saying to quit starting rumors.
oh, never mind......the 2 coin set is going to be shipped on the 27th..
....maybe
edited to add: Damn...so much for that rumor...my cancel box has disappeared
<< <i>Interesting........ The stated shipping date on a couple of my July ordered 75Th Anniv. ASE Proof sets has changed to "7/27/12" !!!! There original USM shipping dates had been 10/12. >>
bazinga
<< <i>My orders through 5pm showing SHIPPED. After 5 still in process, no cancel box. >>
Strange...my 12:14 1st day order is still in stock and reserved...cancel box gone
<< <i>
<< <i>My orders through 5pm showing SHIPPED. After 5 still in process, no cancel box. >>
Strange...my 12:14 1st day order is still in stock and reserved...cancel box gone >>
Assuming both statements are true, this would obviously imply that orders are not being shipped in order received.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>Order number: 39688xxx Order Date: 06/07/2012 at 12:14 AM Order Status: Your order request is in process. 2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 5 $149.95 $749.75 In stock and reserved >>
No cancel box
2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 1 $149.95 $149.95 1 unit shipped on 07/27/2012
Interestingly enough, 40 pre-sales on the bay. Thought they made that impossible with the new rules.
My other orders of multiple sets are picked but not shipped yet - and they were ordered before my single sets. Shipping to continue over the next several days.