Branch mint $20's
jayPem
Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've decided to put together a set of $20 liberties with one of each of the branch mints.
The catch is, I'd like to find nice looking, well circulated pieces, (F12 to VF20 lets say).... are they out there ? I don't see that many worn double eagles for sale, even on the bay, where worn to a nub coinage generally exists in great volume.....did alot of these get melted ? Or did they just not circulate extensively enough to wear out en masse ?
The catch is, I'd like to find nice looking, well circulated pieces, (F12 to VF20 lets say).... are they out there ? I don't see that many worn double eagles for sale, even on the bay, where worn to a nub coinage generally exists in great volume.....did alot of these get melted ? Or did they just not circulate extensively enough to wear out en masse ?
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Significant quantities of US gold coins were sent to Europe to pay down foreign trade debts in the mid-to-late 1800s, and even the early 1900s. These “Euro-look” coins have a specific dirty appearance (if they haven’t been dipped) as a result of rough and frequent handling.
<< <i>Ok, I'll bite....Euro appearance ? >>
<< <i>In VF condition you should find good examples for not that much above spot in today's market. For example,in AU condition Libertycpm.com will sell you $20 Libertys for about $1709.00.It changes with the spot gold prices. But other big dealers like APMEX or Provident will offer similar pricing. >>
The OP specified that he was interested in branch mint coins. You will not find O and CC $20's for spot, unless perhaps they are in horrible condition.
In addition to being dirty, what are other tell-tale signs of the "Euro look" and being "clearly sourced from Europe?" Specifically, what separates a Euro coin from non-Euro dirty gold?
<< <i>I have seen multiple VF $20 Libs from all of the branch mints except Denver. You should have no problem finding them. To make it more challenging, find them all in OGHs with a dirty, Euro appearance. >>
I've heard this refered to as "Euro dirt". Never understood why gold coins from Europe would be any more dirty than double eagles from any other source. Anyone know?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For the most part, US gold coins were brought back from Europe starting in the 1950's; by which time many of the coins had spent at least a couple of decades in a bank vault, presumably in a cloth bag.
On the other hand, almost none of the US gold coins that stayed here had spent any time in bank vaults (except perhaps for safe deposit boxes), so they had a different look from the coins repatriated from Europe.
These repatriated coins had a distinctive look, which came to be known as "Euro dirt".
(Now, don't ask me how to tell the difference between a coin that spent decades in a European bank vault as opposed to a South American bank vault, I'm not that sophisticated.)
jayPenn:
You probably won't find any $20 Libs below VF, as these coins were typically sent back to the Mints to be recoined when they had that degree of wear (a lot of the VFs were melted, too). In general, at least 40% of all the double eagles ever minted were subsequently melted. If you're interested in double eagles, I highly recommend you read A Guide Book of Double Eagle Gold Coins by Bowers - it's got a ton of information in it.
You'll have a tough (and expensive) time finding an affordable New Orleans coin. I'd check with Doug Winter - look at his site every day (to get an idea of prices and availability), or, when you have the money saved up, give him a call. Affordable New Orleans $20s are in pretty heavy demand, though.
Check with DW about CC $20s, too.
Regarding the San Francisco coins, you have a wide range to choose from: A Type I or Type II coin or else a relatively inexpensive Type III coin.
I think the Denver coin will be (oddly enough) one of the harder ones to find. Circulated examples aren't in demand, so one plan might be to go to a major coin show and talk to the guys who deal in bulk $20s. They may let you look through their inventory to find a Denver coin.
What will also make a big difference is whether you want all the coins to be slabbed or not. If you want a slabbed, circulated late-date SF or Denver coin, you might have to get it slabbed yourself, as these coins aren't typically slabbed. I would only recommend buying a New Orleans or CC coin already in a slab.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
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The OP specified that he was interested in branch mint coins. You will not find O and CC $20's for spot, unless perhaps they are in horrible condition. >>
I have seen some fairly decent CC mint $20's in the low $2000 zone, can lower grade New Orleans pieces be found at around the same ?
Price guides suggest the possibility.....but I really haven't seen any to speak of.
Yes, the "euro look" I do like ! I have some nice pieces in OGH, but I would prefer to go raw with this project...
Your answers arrived while I was asking the questions....plus, a question I had forgotten to ask, concerning the availability of $20's in grades below VF.
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<< <i>Ok, I'll bite....Euro appearance ? >>
That coin is quite presentable and no the worse for wear. I would advise against buying pieces with a lot of marks chopped up surfaces. Coin like this with even wear have the type of circulations marks that should be your goal.