Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum?

RYK · July 15, 2012 11:37PM

I have noticed that there are regulars here who show clear disdain for the coin hobby, including some former collectors and dealer types, post on the forum with a constant drone of negativity.

I like music but have no interest in super high end audiophile equipment. I have a friend who does, and I recently visited with him. He participates on a message forum, goes to annual shows, buys, sells, and trades albums, and visits with friends of similar interest. As someone who does not see the value of such, I would never go to a audiophile message board and constantly criticize the enthusiasts: "You are squandering your money, "You cannot hear the difference anyway", "What are your heirs going to do with all of that equipment?", "Albums are dying--young people do not even know what they are, " etc.

Is it human nature that misery desires company? If I no longer cared for coins, the coin hobby, or coin collectors, I would not darken the doorway of the coin forum.

On the other hand, I know that on the Steelers forum that I visit during the active football season (from mid-July through late April

) that, while it is supported by the ardent Steelers fans, there are some regular "negative nellies" who are always in "we're gonna lose" mode and seemed to almost revel in it.

Buzzybest · July 15, 2012 11:51PM

I agree! Yesterday,I simply asked one poster,
"Why are you here?".
Just put some light on the very negative posters,and hopefully they will "wilt" under the glare of self examination.

InternetJunky · July 16, 2012 12:04AM

I work in a retail grocery store, and I deal with this everyday. People always come in and complain that this price is too high or why are you out of stock on this or why is this grown in Mexico. The best is when they eat the cherries and spit the seeds all over the floor. I've always wanted to approach them and say "How would you feel if I went to your place of work and acted the way you do?" Then there are the parents who let their kids run around knocking things over climbing on things while the parents just look the other way. After 8 years I've come to the conclusion people complain and let this stuff happen because it makes them feel better about themselves. The enjoy the fact of putting others down and there will always be people like this.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 12:12AM

perhaps the contempt isnt for the hobby...

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 12:18AM

<< perhaps the contempt isnt for the hobby... >>

That's too obtuse for me. Spit it out! Say exactly what you mean. By the way,I love coins and most coin collectors. I also love buying,selling,and trading coins.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 16, 2012 12:21AM

I TOTALLY agree with the OP

When I posted my 2nd known MS67BN Lincoln thread

there were a whole pile of posters that were shooting negative arrows

(saying the coin was cooked, fresh from the bakery, etc)

Or people posting pictures of bursting dams ... like now that 2 PCGS MS67BN's exist in the world, there will soon be 10,000 of these coins graded.

I also got a few PM's saying that TPG's were "ruining the hobby" putting such clearly inflated grades on coins.

Geez, I mean I didn't post the thread saying "give me your opinion" ... but was presenting news to those interested in toned Lincolns and the semi historic grade.

And this was with NO KNOWLEDGE of the coin at all

When I traced back the previous owners and slabbing history of the coin (to the previous 4 owners over a multiyear period) ... and even posted an old photo of the coin (looking exactly the same) in another TPG slab.

The poster called me "lame"

This is pretty typical of seemingly the same group of nay-sayers

I can't imagine posting such a negative post on a topic that I know absolutely nothing about, like these posters did (what a waste of time and typing).

I also see a lot of detractors posting negatively about toned coins in general, there seems to be a whole collector subgroup that despise colorfully toned coins and to them NOTHING is natural ... it's all cooked.

It would be like me going on a thread on a topic that I had no interest in and no knowledge about ... and posting something negative like "these coins you posted suck, why do you waste your money on this trash" ... And I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE posting something like that in a thread involving people that enjoy and feel passionate about the subject matter.

Here is a suggestion to these "negative nancys" ... if you dislike the subject matter or the coin ... just move on ... and find something you do enjoy ... why spend your time tearing other people or what they enjoy down to the ground?

Do you honestly feel like your negative opinion is so great and so wonderful ... and that you know SO MUCH MORE than the professional graders at PCGS? If that's the case, why are you even here? Do you realize this is a board RUN BY PCGS?

I also love how some people constantly use the derogatory term "kool aid drinker" ... like anyone that frequents the services of PCGS is insane or on drugs or something. Do you have any idea where you are (on a PCGS run board)?

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 12:21AM

out a few negative nellies and ask them. i can almost promise you, the answers will not be taken well.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 16, 2012 12:22AM

That's a fantastic question . They are a contemptuous lot.

KennyH · July 16, 2012 12:23AM

<< 

<< perhaps the contempt isnt for the hobby... >>

That's too obtuse for me. Spit it out! Say exactly what you mean. By the way,I love coins and most coin collectors. I also love buying,selling,and trading coins. >>

A negative attack followed by "love of the hobby"....Hilarious.

lcoopie · July 16, 2012 12:26AM

an unfortunate part of human nature

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 12:26AM

case in point, kenny found buzzys response to be an attack of my response, i didnt see it that way, i see a guy asking for an elaboration. the disdain, contempt or whatever you choose to call it is not aimed at the hobby. it is aimed at each other personally. when you dont allow people to openly voice thier feelings, they will find a more colorful way to voice thier feelings. ive seen posts on here from people who dispense all the posting rules only to break those same rules in thier very next post. but they fail to see it as "rulebreaking" on thier part, ive seen people ask "what should i collect ?" when the question should be "what do other people collect ?" i recently posted a topic that was attacked by a few members here, they misunderstood the post or intentially bashed it i dont know but the point is, they had ZERO interest in the subject matter but yet still felt the need to not only trash my post but to later refer to the post with comments that reflected what they wanted it to say or what they misunderstood it to say or whatever, i dont even know. and these are not newbie members

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 12:28AM

<< That's a fantastic question . They are a contemptuous lot. >>

Hey! I'm starting to miss your PMs. How's business in your shop. Hope you didn't get into the stock market.

sonoranmonsoon · July 16, 2012 12:31AM

In real life, you ussually can choose who you want to talk to, chatrooms it is not so easy. A thick skin, and the ability to ignore a lot of posts, can be very helpful.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 16, 2012 12:32AM

<< 

<< That's a fantastic question . They are a contemptuous lot. >>

Hey! I'm starting to miss your PMs. How's business in your shop. Hope you didn't get into the stock market. >>

Hey, I didn't know you cared. Please visit and buy something and I'll give you a free sucker.

PM sent in regards to another thread.... and thank you also for being here, buzzy. I take most things with a grain of salt and try to dish it out with a spoonful of sugar.... But , we find resolve in PMs.

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 12:36AM

<< case in point, kenny found buzzys response to be an attack of my response, i didnt see it that way, i see a guy asking for an elaboration. >>

Ty,maybe Kenny was just having a bad day or misunderstood what was posted. In the last week,I have had to apologize twice in PM because I was mistaken. I try to do it immediately after seeing a mistake.

BigA · July 16, 2012 12:37AM

<< : Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum? >>

For the same reason collectors who hate Moderns read and post on threads about Moderns.....

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 12:42AM

hey buzz, hows all that apologizing workin out for ya ?

RYK · July 16, 2012 12:48AM

<< 

<< : Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum? >>

For the same reason collectors who hate Moderns read and post on threads about Moderns.....

>>

I believe that is different. If I were a model train enthusiast and participated in a forum and a new train was built and sold that I did not like, it would not be unusual or outside the norm of human behavior. If I consistently posted that I did not like any model trains on a model train forum, over the period of years, people would wonder why I am posting on a model train forum.

DHeath · July 16, 2012 12:50AM

I have noticed that there are regulars here who show clear disdain for the coin hobby, including some former collectors and dealer types, post on the forum with a constant drone of negativity.

Maybe you've been reading too much Hot Topics. The ANA's a problem, the PNG's worse. Coin doctors are rampant. There are puttied coins turning in holders, etc. The world is full of wannabes and dreck. You need to wear double protection just to play in the hobby. But enough happy talk. Negativity is where you find it I suppose. Even here on the boards, you find posts regarding how inconsistent the TPGs can be.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 12:53AM

rather than speculate, lets out a few of these "bad guys" and ask them ... this could be fun.

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 12:56AM

<< hey buzz, hows all that apologizing workin out for ya ? >>

Funny,I still get ignored by the same people!

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 1:26AM

<< 

<< 

<< perhaps the contempt isnt for the hobby... >>

That's too obtuse for me. Spit it out! Say exactly what you mean. By the way,I love coins and most coin collectors. I also love buying,selling,and trading coins. >>

A negative attack followed by "love of the hobby"....Hilarious. >>

Can I add you to my fan list now!

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 1:28AM

and i thought that remark was self explanatory

braddick · July 16, 2012 1:28AM

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 1:31AM

<<

>>

"I see!",said the blindman.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 16, 2012 1:33AM

That picture is cracking me up!!

That nails the dynamic.

Except maybe for the "Normal Person" label

Perhaps it should say ...

"Average human displaying some pre-existing but suppressed, borderline psychological problems"

Unknown · July 16, 2012 1:41AM

This content has been removed.

Zoins · July 16, 2012 1:49AM

<< 

<< : Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum? >>

For the same reason collectors who hate Moderns read and post on threads about Moderns.....

>>

This was my first thought. My second thought was over-struck coins.

JamesMurray · July 16, 2012 1:56AM

<< I always thought the problem here was : this place is called Collector's Universe, yet most here are always selling or flipping and that alone makes for a completely different view than the collector. And to me it leads to posters who are solely here to make money and that very often ruins the forum to me, because i would love to see the greed factor disappear. However that being said I want to hear form the great many dealers out there with all their collelctive (no pun intended) wisdom because they are often great teachers in numismatics, experts in their chosen numismatic passion and have a great deal of history from which to impart to us. I just have a great deal of disdain to those here who either don't allow free speech or abuse the privildege and whose only motivation factor is to make money off this forum and/or us. >>

This

Walkerguy21D · July 16, 2012 2:24AM

I've found that I can learn some things even from the negative nellies that post on here.

TomB · July 16, 2012 2:34AM

I hate you and all coins.

Just kidding.

CoinJunkie · July 16, 2012 3:08AM

RYK, I'm not sure I have the exact answers, but regarding your audiophile analogy, I participated in a
Usenet audio-related group circa twenty years ago. When audiophiles there asked the same question,
the "it all sounds the same" crowd would generally justify their presence by claiming that they
needed to alert the unwashed to the prevalence of "snake oil" in the industry/hobby. Though they
overshot the mark (IMO), there arguments were not completely without merit. There is a tremendous
amount of pseudo-science and outright chicanery in high-end audio, and I support the public discussion
thereof, even though I am an audiophile by most folks' definition.

I also believe that very few people here despise the hobby overall. They may despise certain
dealers or other board members, or third-party grading, but they do have an affinity to coin collecting
in some fashion. I don't recall (m)any "collecting coins is strictly for idiots" postings over my time here.

Zoins · July 16, 2012 3:28AM

<< RYK, I'm not sure I have the exact answers, but regarding your audiophile analogy, I participated in a
Usenet audio-related group circa twenty years ago. When audiophiles there asked the same question,
the "it all sounds the same" crowd would generally justify their presence by claiming that they
needed to alert the unwashed to the prevalence of "snake oil" in the industry/hobby. Though they
overshot the mark (IMO), there arguments were not completely without merit. There is a tremendous
amount of pseudo-science and outright chicanery in high-end audio, and I support the public discussion
thereof, even though I am an audiophile by most folks' definition. >>

As with many hobbies, for the enlightened hobbyist, it comes down to what you can personally appreciate (from a hobby vs. investment perspective).

Whether it's high end audio, wine or coins, you need to be able to think for and appreciate it yourself. I do find one difference between audio and wine vs. coins is that the former generally has a set price while the latter tends to be more variable. So if you are going to be misled, with audio and wine you may be misled en-mass while with coins it may be on a coin-by-coin basis.

As an interesting note, I've been away from the audiophile hobby for a while but recently went to audition some speakers for a friend. Given that I wasn't up to date on the latest speaker models, I found it interesting when I found myself in the "it all sounds (relatively) the same" crowd auditioning speakers from about $500 to $3000. I found it interesting that I could not recommend speakers in that range to my friend. However, when we started to audition speakers in the $20,000 range, I could clearly hear a distinct and very worthwhile difference. I ended up recommending something on the lower end of the price range for my friend. This reminds me of the bi/tri-furcation of the coin market, where not all segments may be of interest to all hobbyists.

<< I also believe that very few people here despise the hobby overall. They may despise certain
dealers or other board members, or third-party grading, but they do have an affinity to coin collecting
in some fashion. I don't recall (m)any "collecting coins is strictly for idiots" postings over my time here. >>

I agree with this. I don't remember seeing anybody that despises the hobby in general, but I do see some that seem to despise certain segments of collecting that they are not particularly fond of. Because they are not particularly fond of certain segments of collecting, they may view threads enjoyed by others with a "glass is half empty" filter.

AUandAG · July 16, 2012 3:37AM

Sometimes I agree and sometimes I like to stir the pot. Not often but occasionally I'll shoot
down a grade or theory just to be a devils advocate!

If we all agree on everything this place would not be worth a visit!

bob

Hotfootspin · July 16, 2012 3:42AM

<< I agree! Yesterday,I simply asked one poster,
"Why are you here?".
Just put some light on the very negative posters,and hopefully they will "wilt" under the glare of self examination. >>

Yes, you did. You asked ME, "why are you here?" After I posted an obvious joke, with winky-face and all. I'm here because I love coins and I love learning about them. But my "joke" post does express my frustrations with collecting on a limited budget and with a history of chronic unemployment. So sometimes the hobby is bittersweet.

Mark

TwoSides2aCoin · July 16, 2012 3:47AM

It's easier in a shop. People say "How much ? " and they're either buying or selling. Here ? they're just shooting the _ _ _ _ , or flipping it.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 3:55AM

one of the biggest annoyances here are those that want to push thier ideals, theories and habits on others. i dont care what you collect, i dont care what you like. i dont buy your coins and i dont care what youve spent for them. there are many here that feel someone appointed them to "regulate" the rest of us. there are many people here that rub me the wrong way, i dont dislike the hobby, its the people i cant stand

Coinosaurus · July 16, 2012 4:20AM

Walter Breen mused early on - "I loathe a career in numismatics." What he meant was, "I see all the crap going on and I'm going to wallow in it rather than do something constructive." Of course he was so damn intelligent the knowledge came out anyway.

You also have the glass half empty thing going on - these types will come across as negative regardless of what hobby or activity they find themselves involved in.

I've also met a couple guys who come across as negative but then when you get to know them in person they are coming from a more complex place, and really not so bad when you understand the whole picture.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 4:33AM

im surprised old walt had any time for philosophy, with numismatics ... and of course being a pedophile

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 4:33AM

<< Walter Breen mused early on - "I loathe a career in numismatics." What he meant was, "I see all the crap going on and I'm going to wallow in it rather than do something constructive." Of course he was so damn intelligent the knowledge came out anyway.

You also have the glass half empty thing going on - these types will come across as negative regardless of what hobby or activity they find themselves involved in.

I've also met a couple guys who come across as negative but then when you get to know them in person they are coming from a more complex place, and really not so bad when you understand the whole picture. >>

Holy cow! I was away for a little while, typing up an inventory of all my 9 Morgans, and now I have to take up the challenge of trying to get ebaybuyer to like people just a little bit more. I have tons of experience in this area,as I have worked for people in this category before. One was a lawyer. And yes,I'm betting that if ebaybuyer got to know some of us better,he might develop a more positive people oriented view.Now let me take the first step...ebaybuyer,do you have any coins that you would like to sell to me?

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 4:37AM

lol before i answer your question, allow me to pose one to you, how much are you looking to spend ?

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 4:42AM

<< 

<< I agree! Yesterday,I simply asked one poster,
"Why are you here?".
Just put some light on the very negative posters,and hopefully they will "wilt" under the glare of self examination. >>

Yes, you did. You asked ME, "why are you here?" After I posted an obvious joke, with winky-face and all. I'm here because I love coins and I love learning about them. But my "joke" post does express my frustrations with collecting on a limited budget and with a history of chronic unemployment. So sometimes the hobby is bittersweet.

Mark >>

And you have my humblest of apologies, because I can certainly relate to those kinds of misunderstandings here,now almost on a daily basis.

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 4:46AM

<< lol before i answer your question, allow me to pose one to you, how much are you looking to spend ? >>

I appreciate the response,but we are not supposed to discuss transactions here. It is better done thru PMs or BST. Your kindness is starting to brighten my day!

FullStrike · July 16, 2012 4:46AM

Why the orgyfest of negativity?

Buzzybest · July 16, 2012 4:51AM

<< Why the orgyfest of negativity?

>>

Fullstrike,I am now accepting job applications for anyone interested in typing up my responses to all the lovely people here. A man's gotta eat and drink sometimes.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 5:01AM

case in point, we dont always express ourselves as clearly as we possibly can, and no matter how we try, there may always be some confusion that lingers in a post or response.

SanctionII · July 16, 2012 5:20AM

It may be simply be that "misery loves company".

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 5:34AM

do miserable people love company ? is that why some people come here to project thier own self loathing self pity ? lets hear from some negative nellies, what drives you to post something negative on a thread ? is disagreeing with someone being negative ? is that too far out of the conformity box ?

Elcontador · July 16, 2012 6:11AM

Ebaybuyer and the other guy are onto something. I have been collecting coins for nearly forty years. On the whole, it has been a positive experience.

Still, I can empathize wiith some people who are angry; people who have been in this hobby over a period of time and have been repeatedly scammed and ripped off, and although they like the hobby, they are angry at those who have cheated them, and the factors in the hobby which permit this sort of thing to continue.

Perhaps they are trying to warn coin collectors of the hobby's pitfalls, but aren't articulating their thoughts as well as could be possible. I can't speak for them. The following are examples which might lead to this sort of individual to post here:

1) How many instances have happened when a dealer buys many coins, guesses incorrectly where the market is going, and the checks for the coins he bought are returned NSF? He goes BK, only to be open for business again in less than a year?

2) How many times has a collector paid someone for coins which he never received? Two local dealers come to mind. One guy took people's money for bullion coins he never delivered and went BK. The guy went to jail. I remember another time a dealer was literally being chased around a coin show by dealers to whom he wrote bad checks for coins.

3) And don't forget about the times someone is promised this or that coin is one of the best for the grade, pays a premium for it, only to discover tha the coin has been doctored and / or the individual who sold it to him isn't interested in buying it back, after assuring such individual that what said person sells will always be bought back?

4) What about the aggravation of buying a coin in a first tier TPG slab, only to find that awhile later, it is turning in the holder? This happened to me with what (for me) was an expensive coin, and I know for a fact that the individual who sold it to me would not have done so if he knew this would happen. What about those who knowingly make and / or sell such coins to unsuspecting buyers. These can be four, five, or even six figure coins.

5) What about the guy I overheard at a show, bragging to his friend that he got his Seated $ to get into a 5 holder on the eleventh submission?

6) What about the others who have tried to upgrade various expensive coins unsuccessfully numerous times, only to sell said coins and find them upgraded in new holders less than a year later?

7) Finding acceptable Draped Bust Coinage is often an excercise in futility.

My point is not to rag on the hobby. I enjoy it, and I think the positives outweigh the negatives. But the negatives exist, it's caveat emptor, and you have to be careful.

I try to conduct business with people I know, or whom are vouched for by people I trust. I look at many coins before buying one of a particular series and grade. I don't send many coins in for grading, and I never crack one out of its slab. I don't expect to make money in this hobby, for reasons I won't get into here. My old higher grade type coins have gone up in value enough to offset the 30-40% drop in some of my other material. I am also not in a hurry to buy anything. I looked four years for a nice no problem Barber Half in a PC 5 holder, and looked eight years for a nice AU Heraldic Eagle Bust $.

Have I been burned? Yes. Once I paid for some coins I never received. Per the above, I did buy a coin which turned in holder years later. But because of how I collect, my expectations, and a bit of good fortune, I haven't been burned, and for me, my experience in numismatics has been and remains a postive one. One must realize that not everyone feels this way.

ebaybuyer · July 16, 2012 6:27AM

i cant relate much to the previous post, i get annoyed with people here (for instance) trying to get an ebay auction ended because the person does not "like" the coin, its not the hobby that annoys me its the "i don like it so no one should" mentality.. among others. ive made coin buying mistakes but i dont place the blame on anyone but myself, because essentially, that is where it should be placed

keets · July 16, 2012 6:32AM

Robert, you just recently returned to active duty after a stint of self-imposed exile. judging solely by the tenor of the thread title and opening post, either the stint was too brief or you may be ready for another!!!

chill out, man, it's not worth it to get worked up over this stuff.

Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum?

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