What do you do at a show when a dealer does this...
dragon
Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
So you're at a dealers table and a certain PCGS / NGC coin strikes your fancy, it has no exceptional toning, no stickers or pluses or desirable old holders or anything, just a straight grade. You ask to see the coin and you look at it and like it, and you ask the price. The dealer then looks at it and quotes you a price as if it was already graded one point higher, and the spread between grades is not small. The dealer then says one of the following after quoting you this price:
1) Well I was going to resubmit that one because I think it's a lock 'MSXX'
2) This one is a great upgrade / gold sticker shot
3) I have a ton into this one
4) Sorry about the price but it's a consignment piece
5) Isn't that one a beauty?
6) Most of the ones I see graded 2 points higher aren't as nice as this one
7) I just bought this out of a collection put away in the late 80's, you don't see them like this anymore
Assuming you like the coin, do you:
1) Smile, say ok thank you and walk away
2) Say thanks, you're nuts, good luck, and walk away in disgust
3) Counteroffer at a slightly lesser price
4) Counteroffer at a way lesser price and explain the coin is sharp but already priced as if it's already been upgraded which it hasn't and may never be
5) Tell him to resubmit and you'll pay his price after it upgrades
6) Other
1) Well I was going to resubmit that one because I think it's a lock 'MSXX'
2) This one is a great upgrade / gold sticker shot
3) I have a ton into this one
4) Sorry about the price but it's a consignment piece
5) Isn't that one a beauty?
6) Most of the ones I see graded 2 points higher aren't as nice as this one
7) I just bought this out of a collection put away in the late 80's, you don't see them like this anymore
Assuming you like the coin, do you:
1) Smile, say ok thank you and walk away
2) Say thanks, you're nuts, good luck, and walk away in disgust
3) Counteroffer at a slightly lesser price
4) Counteroffer at a way lesser price and explain the coin is sharp but already priced as if it's already been upgraded which it hasn't and may never be
5) Tell him to resubmit and you'll pay his price after it upgrades
6) Other
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Edit: If it is something that is extremely hard to find and I really, really want, I might leave a business card and tell him that I would be interested at a lower level and to contact me if he has it for a while and wishes to reconsider on the price. 98% of the time, I just walk away.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would just say "No, thanks." and then move on. Life is too short to play games with an idiot. >>
I think that considering him to be an idiot is a bit harsh. Perhaps he misjudged the coin. Perhaps you or I misjudged the coin. If I am contemplating a shirt at the store, look at the price, and it is too expensive for me, is the shop owner an idiot?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>I do #1. If we are so far apart in our assessment, it is extremely unlikely that any further engagement will be productive. This happens to me a lot at shows. >>
I agree. Some dealers you just can't buy coins from unless you want to over pay. This doesn't only happen to collectors either, so don't feel bad
Shoot him a price who cares.
The story or rationale for the price is irrelevant ... as the overused cliche goes ... it is what it is. Sellers by snake oil by the barrel ... most of the time I am not that thirsty.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
type2,CCHunter.
There is no use in arguing or counter offering when you are that far apart.
I was looking for an "S-Mint" half eagle at the Summer FUN show. The first one I saw was in an MS-64 holder with a CAC sticker. The dealer quoted me more than double Gray Sheet bid, and to his credit said it was "too high." I had to agree with him.
I did pay more than Gray Sheet for this MS-64, but it did fit the bill for what I wanted. I did have spend a few hours to find it, which not really work for me.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would just say "No, thanks." and then move on. Life is too short to play games with an idiot. >>
I think that considering him to be an idiot is a bit harsh. Perhaps he misjudged the coin. Perhaps you or I misjudged the coin. If I am contemplating a shirt at the store, look at the price, and it is too expensive for me, is the shop owner an idiot? >>
Agree and I changed my post. Unfortunately, many dealers play games by claiming an average coin is undergraded , choice for the grade, gold cac sticker worthy, etc as a negotiating tactic. When the same dealer bought that same coin they most likely told the seller the coin was overgraded or only average for the grade. That said, collectors/buyers try to play the same games.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
#1 +1. Might add "good luck on getting that".
It also depends on who the dealer is.
If it's just "some guy", then, unless I agreed with the higher grade and price, I would walk away.
On the other hand, I own one of RYK's former coins, that I bought (in 2006) from Doug Winter. (It's an 1846/'5'-O eagle in a PCGS-35 slab.) Now RYK told me it was undergraded when he sent it to DW and DW told me it was undergraded when he offered it to me. DW offered me the option of resubmission prior to delivering the coin to me (same price), but I told him that we could resubmit it when I sold it. When I got the coin I agreed that it was undergraded.
Sometimes it's a good thing to pay the extra money.
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#1 response is always best
I have to agree, all I can say is Thank You, although, if prodded I might say its too rich for my blood.
Hoping the dealer will take the hint and cut the ask price without a song and dance.
God knows, I have overpaid for the right coin long before there were Pluses, Stars and Gold & Green CAC's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<< <i>#1 because you can't fix stupid. >>
<< <i>I would just say "No, thanks." and then move on. Life is too short to play games. >>
Yeah, I guess if the dealer is that enamored with it, he/she can keep it, they obviously like it more than I do!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Those who say to just walk away without specifying what series they are talking about obviously don't deal in a lot of classic coinage where the greysheet or priceguides are kinda out to lunch.
<< <i>That depends on what the coin is and what it looks like. If it's an amazing high end seated dollar [for example], it could be almost the next grade up in price and still be a bargain. There are plenty of series in which the majority of known examples are low end, boinked with, or just flat out overgraded. When a truly special coin comes along - you jump at it.
Those who say to just walk away without specifying what series they are talking about obviously don't deal in a lot of classic coinage where the greysheet or priceguides are kinda out to lunch. >>
Agree if the coin is "amazing high end" but if you read the OP's question, it sounds like he is asking about a coin that's properly graded but nothing special.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>That depends on what the coin is and what it looks like. If it's an amazing high end seated dollar [for example], it could be almost the next grade up in price and still be a bargain. There are plenty of series in which the majority of known examples are low end, boinked with, or just flat out overgraded. When a truly special coin comes along - you jump at it.
Those who say to just walk away without specifying what series they are talking about obviously don't deal in a lot of classic coinage where the greysheet or priceguides are kinda out to lunch. >>
The OP suggested that the coin was average, nothing super high end or unusually spectacular, and my response was predicated on that.
<< <i>
<< <i>That depends on what the coin is and what it looks like. If it's an amazing high end seated dollar [for example], it could be almost the next grade up in price and still be a bargain. There are plenty of series in which the majority of known examples are low end, boinked with, or just flat out overgraded. When a truly special coin comes along - you jump at it.
Those who say to just walk away without specifying what series they are talking about obviously don't deal in a lot of classic coinage where the greysheet or priceguides are kinda out to lunch. >>
Agree if the coin is "amazing high end" but if you read the OP's question, it sounds like he is asking about a coin that's properly graded but nothing special. >>
He didn't say anything about highend or not, he just said it wasn't stickered or plused or wildly toned.
And I will still state that you still have to know what series and what coin. I can point to dozens of coins where I would jump all over a properly graded, non messed with PCGS example at near the next grade up priceguide.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The PCGS priceguide lists the 1851 and 1852 dollars in MS65 at $125,000 each. The undergrade is about $80k. I would not hesitate to pay $110,000 for a nice eye appealing solid for the grade PCGS 64 of either of those dates. That is 'near priceguide for the next grade up'.
For that matter, I wouldn't hesitate to pay near DOUBLE priceguide for a nice eye appealing solid for the grade PCGS 65 of either of those dates. Please offer me one, I'll cut the check on the spot.
type2,CCHunter.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
never hurts to counter offer...politely that is
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Thank them for their time and move on. Odds are everything in the case has "PQ" stickers over the grades.
1. Then why didn't you?
2. Let me see the coin and I'll be the judge of that.
3. Then stick it into your collection or get rid of it to me at my offer and reinvest the cash into something else more profitable.
4. If you say so (this one is maybe the most commonly truthful from this list.)
5. I'll judge that myself.
6. But yours is graded 2 points lower so here we are.
7. Then why is it in a new version post c.2005 holder?
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I don't have time to jerk around and I wouldn't get much satisfaction from a witty retort (well, sometimes). Plus you never know if this same seller might have something good and priced right in the future, so IMO it is just good business (or good collecting as the case may be) not to burn bridges.
The biz card is for my Opthamologist.
from another dealer. I'd move on and not worry too much. If the
dealer is really that insane than the "market place" will take care
of him sooner or later.
Then I move on without any intention to inquiring about the coin again.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>If I don't like the coin and the price, I pass politely. >>
This is my most frequent course of action.
Of course, other variables might cause me to make more of an effort to strike a deal.
<< <i>#1 because you can't fix stupid. >>
#1 because he can't fix not stupid
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Walk away >>
heard the bs too many times .. never buying, just selling dealer .. if such a slam dunk upgrade ..would have long been already graded up
"I think so too - in other other direction. I'll meet you half way with the grade already on the slab"
2) This one is a great upgrade / gold sticker shot
"Not on my dime. How's your aim?"
3) I have a ton into this one
"What else should I not buy?"
4) Sorry about the price but it's a consignment piece
"I'm sorry too."
5) Isn't that one a beauty?
"Depends on the price. Maybe you should keep it."
6) Most of the ones I see graded 2 points higher aren't as nice as this one
"Not all coins are equal, besides we are discussing ]i]this coin...."
7) I just bought this out of a collection put away in the late 80's, you don't see them like this anymore
"You are right. My friends and club members find those mostly undesirable/overgraded as well. Which type of "1980's" grades are we talking about anyway??
Bruce is right - right coin/item and you buy.
Best wishes,
Eric
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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